Forthcoming patch info

[manuva85]

1 hour ago, HachiRoku said:

You win because you're replacement ship costs nothing. 

Do you remember times of free 3rd rates sailing in ow just waiting to be capped? And how good pvp with OTHER ships was bcs there was that free alternative, so you could do more risky  fights freely? Yeah i do. 

It was taken from all players, now only avaiable to players that pay extra.

NOT FAIR AT ALL.

Edited March 26, 2019 by manuva85

[Teutonic]

6 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

Pretty much this.

I'd take it another way too. if one side with DLC ships vs another side with NO DLC ships. 

If the Non-DLC side wins, they don't feel like they economically accomplished anything - the DLC side has less of an economic stake in the battle leading to a feeling of a wasted victory.

If the Non-DLC side loses, they get frustrated because they have to go through the ropes to replace their ship, while the DLC side continues stomping around - then replacing on a whim.

Did it bring more PvP? Absolutely, I won't disagree there. But....I can't help but feel it's fake.

[z4ys]

10 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

Did it bring more PvP? Absolutely, I won't disagree there. But....I can't help but feel it's fake.

with the open world side of things in mind (not moba pov) it always felt like quantity over quality in the recent past.

I prefer the quality side. When it was possible to deny a 1st rate even to be build. when sinking one of those meant something. I gladly keep sailing 2h for that feeling.

but convince strikes...

Edited March 26, 2019 by z4ys

[mikawa]

+ for "Drunken Sailor" DLC. It gives you one sealed bottle per day.

Jokes aside. I think you hang the DLC thing way too high. The herc was not unbeatable and nowadays you should ask why you have bought it because it's absolutely worthless. I think it's good to have ships that can be redeemed, because then you have chance to sail out even when you're bankrupt. Since last megapatches AI had become very hard to beat, the thing is that nobody recognized this yet because all have 1st rates which can easily destroy some AI's for profit. But when you have to start over in a cutter after the wipe, you'll be very thankful for a redeemable ship I'm sure.

Remember times of ship notes, there was the wasa and it really was a hype when it came out but now nobody really cares for them. I think the new DLC ships will do the same. I personal have nothing against them if you mind just board them and include them into your navy.

[Archaos]

29 minutes ago, jodgi said:

I did the simple math on a corvette,  maybe you've done the numbers on bigger ships? I'd like to see those numbers...

I just did the calculation for a Niagara and it cost 10,022 Reals to build an Oak/Oak one buying all the materials from NPC, If you factor in the LH based on 500hrs for 2500 doubloons and a sell rate of 4 Reals for Doubloon (NPC price) that would add another 3720 Reals and we havent even considered the cost of the permit which is hidden behind PvP RNG, while the last Niagara I lost which was Teak/WO paid out 4423 Reals in insurance around a third of my cost to build and that is not counting cannons.

[Barbancourt]

15 minutes ago, mikawa said:

 I personal have nothing against them if you mind just board them and include them into your navy.

AI doesn't sail DLC ships to harvest, and you can't capture them anyhow. 

 

[jodgi]

19 minutes ago, Archaos said:

I just did the calculation for a Niagara and it cost 10,022 Reals to build an Oak/Oak one buying all the materials from NPC, If you factor in the LH based on 500hrs for 2500 doubloons and a sell rate of 4 Reals for Doubloon (NPC price) that would add another 3720 Reals and we havent even considered the cost of the permit which is hidden behind PvP RNG, while the last Niagara I lost which was Teak/WO paid out 4423 Reals in insurance around a third of my cost to build and that is not counting cannons.

I'm looking at it too, not done yet (for Essex).

I'm sure buying stuff breaks the bank, player or NPC. I disregard LH as I always have more LH than I ever need (solo crafting for own use). Want to disregard doub and permit "cost" as those things are put in place for other reasons than eco.

We agree that permit and doub ships with rare woods wouldn't make you break even with insurance, not even close.

[HachiRoku]

1 hour ago, jodgi said:

Ok.

I'm not saying you do, but I'm suspecting there is a tiny possibility you have a blindspot when it comes to resources, crafting and insurance.

I have the two silly little current DLCs but haven't used them against players yet. I've used and lost my own crafted ships instead. Right now losing a ship costs me almost nothing. Unless you buy stupid expensive woods or other stupid expensive resources from players you get almost every dime back. Yes, yes, oak/oak is "useless" and "terrible" (it's not) but if you stick with things you can extract yourself or steal from bots or players you can even come out of a ship loss with a net profit because of insurance rates.

When I start using my bigger DLCs I will always lose the guns and get nothing back for them, so using my own crafted ships will save me money while going with my DLC will guarantee me losing more money.

Sure it'll be faster to just click out a DLC, but even if I have to go to extract and haul oak and hemp it will take me no more than 5-10 minutes of engaging eco gameplay to click out a new ship. More often crafting a ship doesn't take longer than clicking a DLC because we usually keep stuff for at least 10 ships at the ready.

Guns make up about half the cost of a ship, so you should start worrying about us DLC clickers losing our reals while crafters get their cash back. How's that for a plot twist, eh?!

Even not considering the resources it is plain and simple P2W model when you can pay money and get to the same goal(a ship) faster. I am sorry brother but there is no debate there. You will never be able to justify it even if the ships add 1000% more pvp. I stand by boycotting all dlcs that are against the the soul of this game. Admin already said the DLC ships are a major part of pvp and that is only 2 ships. It will get worse. I want GLs to even add ship of the line dlcs and whatever they want to do in the future but no like this. If the trinco was made a dlc ship tomorrow and removed from crafting I would still persist. I guess I should sail the indefatigable a bit more. Suits me :p 

Even if we could redeem permits and had to craft the ship they model would still be p2w considering other permits in game require ingame to to get them. Its bad but acceptable because sandbox games have issues with adding dlcs in general. 

[HachiRoku]

52 minutes ago, manuva85 said:

Do you remember times of free 3rd rates sailing in ow just waiting to be capped? And how good pvp with OTHER ships was bcs there was that free alternative, so you could do more risky  fights freely? Yeah i do. 

It was taken from all players, now only avaiable to players that pay extra.

NOT FAIR AT ALL.

personally I think that was for other reasons. In our clan we had to do it because we could not craft bellonas fast enough. To few crafters to much demand. 

[Aerospace]

55 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Who the hell sails with 4 Herc in fleet....  you deserve to have them all sunk if that is the case...

 

You do not have any dlc ships do you ?

You send your dlc ship to fleet but on the docks only ! so you can redeem one more,repeat it up to 4 ships. So you can have 4 dlc ships + 1 still redemeeble ready at any time.

So your docks will have 4 Hercules to be used in let's say Nassau Patrol, and anytime you lose one of them, you can redeem one more on the same day, so you can use up to 5 Hercules in Nassau patrol. So you can do it for free with best woods. 

and you did not know this  

[jodgi]

6 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Even not considering the resources it is plain and simple P2W model when you can pay money and get to the same goal(a ship) faster. I am sorry brother but there is no debate there. You will never be able to justify it even if the ships add 1000% more pvp. I stand by boycotting all dlcs that are against the the soul of this game. Admin already said the DLC ships are a major part of pvp and that is only 2 ships. It will get worse. I want GLs to even add ship of the line dlcs and whatever they want to do in the future but no like this. If the trinco was made a dlc ship tomorrow and removed from crafting I would still persist. I guess I should sail the indefatigable a bit more. Suits me 😛

Even if we could redeem permits and had to craft the ship they model would still be p2w considering other permits in game require ingame to to get them. Its bad but acceptable because sandbox games have issues with adding dlcs in general. 

Ok, you win. There can be no debate when you reserve the right to define the baseline truth and sit on the only possible interpretation of said truths in relation to everything. 

[HachiRoku]

10 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Ok, you win. There can be no debate when you reserve the right to define the baseline truth and sit on the only possible interpretation of said truths in relation to everything. 

A Fact cannot be combated with reasoning, for it is logic itself. Truth is something which depends on a person's perspective. Its quite odd you said that that way because I was just reading about Facts vs Truth 3 days ago. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

4 hours ago, Salty Sails said:

Just wondering in what ship can you sink a LRQ with proper ugprades and decent captain ?

LAS taylor? Never heard of him...

Do you have a fight against better players? With good woods, and best upgrades?

Bad players are still bad players.  Hell I demasted a Herc with a Trader Brig one time just out side Little Harbor area.  If he didn't have two AI sinking my other two trade ships like a dick, I would prob of stayed and camped him until I sunk him.  Just cause some one is in a DLC ship does not make them a great player.  Though I think he had no clue who I was at it was an alt of mine and not a name seen by many even those that sail with me.   I'm an average player in my books and I beaten LRQ's with none same sailing profiles.  You snap that front mast before they can run and they are sitting ducks in water.   That is exactly what I did with that herc when he was chasing me.  Not every one runs Pirate on there LRQ's either, in fact i don't run it on any of mine. I run French Rig instead cause I know how weak that front mast is.   Not every one makes there ships to run away from every fight.  I have some that are Cedar/Teak you won't chatch unless your of a softer word, but those are for solo trade ship hunting (board fit too) and others are just Teak/Wo for battle other ships (the guys with carros).  If you are smart and you face some one with carros with longs you can easily control that fight.  This is all not the point of this post anyway so a bit off topic, we beaten the LRQ thing to death so need to move on.  I just want to see a refit of it that is more trader than raider.....

[jodgi]

2 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

A Fact cannot be combated with reasoning, for it is logic itself. Truth is something which depends on a person's perspective. Its quite odd you said that that way because I was just reading about Facts vs Truth 3 days ago. 

Did the book instruct you to equate Hachi's truth with objective and logical facts?

[Archaos]

1 hour ago, jodgi said:

I'm looking at it too, not done yet (for Essex).

I'm sure buying stuff breaks the bank, player or NPC. I disregard LH as I always have more LH than I ever need (solo crafting for own use). Want to disregard doub and permit "cost" as those things are put in place for other reasons than eco.

We agree that permit and doub ships with rare woods wouldn't make you break even with insurance, not even close.

I have redone calculation for Niagara using material extraction costs and not counting LH or permit costs and it still works out at 5481 Reals to build and you only get back 4432, so you are still short before you start to count cannons.

When you throw in permit cost, cannons, rare woods cost and LH you make a big loss as compared to someone who can redeem a rare wood ship daily and that does not even take into account the time to gather the materials to your crafting port and then you have your single tow/day (also add the cost of the tow) to where you want it, while the DLC player can redeem his ship where he needs it.

Edit: in case you have not done it yet an Essex works out at 19282 for Oak/Oak not counting LH, permits, guns etc.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Archaos

[Dibbler (Retired)]

44 minutes ago, Archaos said:

I have redone calculation for Niagara using material extraction costs and not counting LH or permit costs and it still works out at 5481 Reals to build and you only get back 4432, so you are still short before you start to count cannons.

When you throw in permit cost, cannons, rare woods cost and LH you make a big loss as compared to someone who can redeem a rare wood ship daily and that does not even take into account the time to gather the materials to your crafting port and then you have your single tow/day (also add the cost of the tow) to where you want it, while the DLC player can redeem his ship where he needs it.

Edit: in case you have not done it yet an Essex works out at 19282 for Oak/Oak not counting LH, permits, guns etc.

 

 

19282 for an oak/oak Essex  thats kinda crazy, and without permits lol  .

[Archaos]

57 minutes ago, Dibbler said:

 

 

19282 for an oak/oak Essex  thats kinda crazy, and without permits lol  .

Well thats what it works out as, the only thing that can be reduced from that is the provisions that you can get for free by catching fish as you sail round and converting them to provisions, but I doubt many PvP players do that.

The examples I have given if you made your own provisions rather than farmed them would be

Niagara 3156 Reals, which is less than the insurance but I am sure still not enough to cover crafted cannons.

Essex 9832 Reals, but I do not know what the insurance pays on an essex.

If I get time tomorrow I will work out the cost of a few more.

[van der Clam]

2 hours ago, Aerospace said:

You do not have any dlc ships do you ?

You send your dlc ship to fleet but on the docks only ! so you can redeem one more,repeat it up to 4 ships. So you can have 4 dlc ships + 1 still redemeeble ready at any time.

So your docks will have 4 Hercules to be used in let's say Nassau Patrol, and anytime you lose one of them, you can redeem one more on the same day, so you can use up to 5 Hercules in Nassau patrol. So you can do it for free with best woods. 

and you did not know this  

I certainly hope @admin realize this and set an actual 24hr timer. I do not think the ship DLCs are intended to be exploited this way.

About premium consumable vessels.
Premium ships cannot be captured by players or traded. You can request this vessel from the admiralty once a day as long as you dont have the same vessel already in your docks. You will be able to request the frame and planking wood type when ordering a ship. Admiralty requests for this ship will be completed instantly.
DLC will appear in your redeemable list after you dock to any port.

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

So I am fine with everything mentioned. Little disappointed its not a map wipe though. Two things I would suggest though @admin please make sure that there are a much larger percentage of craftable ships availible in comparision to the amount of dlc ships there are availible to purchase. Like there should be 1 dlc ship to ever 5 ships close to its class. Maybe even larger ratios. Also please tell me you guys are going to change up port battles in some manner. Like add variations to the battle objectives or something. Kind of bored doing the same thing over and over again and also to see cowardice rewarded when players choose to kite and run away from fighting as a tactic to win.

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

Well thats what it works out as, the only thing that can be reduced from that is the provisions that you can get for free by catching fish as you sail round and converting them to provisions, but I doubt many PvP players do that.

The examples I have given if you made your own provisions rather than farmed them would be

Niagara 3156 Reals, which is less than the insurance but I am sure still not enough to cover crafted cannons.

Essex 9832 Reals, but I do not know what the insurance pays on an essex.

If I get time tomorrow I will work out the cost of a few more.

Just thought I toss in here my US United stats gave me something like 55,651 insurance for a Cedar/Teak ship.   I been wondering when some one will make a cost spread sheet for crafting, but with all the changes and well lack of active crafters it seem to be something no one is wanting to work up.

[HachiRoku]

7 hours ago, jodgi said:

Did the book instruct you to equate Hachi's truth with objective and logical facts?

I don't want to go into this discussion again but it is a simple fact that getting the Same items at a faster rate by paying for them is P2W. It's how p2w works. I don't care that it's convenient for some because it's not convenient for everyone else. You cannot justify it. This is not an oppinion of mine but a simple fact. Google P2W. 

[Lovec1990]

15 hours ago, Sveteran said:

checked https://na-map.netlify.com/ connie has 0.3 kn more, higher acceleration and better upwind sailing profile, bellona also have a bigger square sails which pushes it more backwards when tacking and of course it depends on the skill of the captains on the ships, a teak teak connie can be deadly fast catching most frigates

Still i belive connie needs her base speed increased by 0.40kn 

[Zlatkowar]

16 hours ago, admin said:

[...]

As a result he is mistaken. Because he thinks DLC owners will still play and happily haul.  
Players who do not want to haul chose DLC ships VS chose not to play at all.

• Choosing DLC ships keeps some crafting (need repairs, need guns, need mods). DLC ships also kill ships sometimes (which also require crafting of repairs, mods, and sometimes even ships). 
• Choosing not to play removes ALL that demand. And removes crafted ship destruction.
  During the last data check on DLC vs normal ships 11000 battles were generated with DLC ships and 3000 DLC ships sank (before the damage model change they had the worst survivability, worser than a brig). Why? Because people love action and losing ships sometimes is part of it.

Higher class ships will further increase the demand for consumables and guns and will sink MORE crafted ships to replace them. And the profession does not change really, as people will still want niagara, surprises, indefatigables and heavy lineships. + more consumables will be needed due to more battles happening.

Now.. what he is offering by "nailing it"? His proposal is to remove 11000 battles and 3000 pvp kills for others. or to not add MORE battles. Because DLC ship buyers will then chose to NOT PLAY at all.  

I am a little amazed by what I read here. I mean I get the logic, the way you put it makes perfect sense. It encourages battles, etc... But don't you think there's something wrong when players are reticent in risking their hard earned ships in a battle in the first place and would then rather use their daily DLC one instead?

I don't know... What you wrote there might make sense for some, but to me it looks like an excuse for a poorly balanced risk/reward mechanism. And if you really mean what you said, that DLC Ships are there to encourage fighting and risky behaviors because the real advantage of the DLC is to have one free ship a day, and not to give exclusivity on said ship, then you should make this happen : 

16 hours ago, El Patron said:

We need every ship as a dlc and craftable. Guys without enough time can buy the dlcs  the others can craft the ships.  Everybody is happy

 

[jodgi]

9 hours ago, Archaos said:

Edit: in case you have not done it yet an Essex works out at 19282 for Oak/Oak not counting LH, permits, guns etc.

Yesterday I double checked all the extraction cost, double checked the blueprint, clicked out an oak/oak Essex and long guns for it.

I afk fish provisions so I disregard the cost of those and I don't factor in LH as a part of cost.

The Essex cost me 9822 reals, the 40 guns cost me 7760 reals; Total 17582 reals.

I then went out to sink the poor thing, had to dodge an extremely bloodthirsty brit big ship gank squad swarming DA-NO waters (Yes, I'd rather feed my Essex to a bot than to give the dreadfleet anything). The Essex sank quickly to a Polish Wasa and I was sent to port with 15162 reals as insurance payout.

So the whole loss experience set me back 2420 reals. My net loss was equivalent to the cost of the twelve weatherdeck guns.

Let's pretend the Essex is a premium ship. I click it out and craft guns for it. Cost of guns is still 7760 reals. If I lose my imaginary premium Essex I get sent to port with nothing while the cost of the guns goes to the bottom with the free ship. Net loss without reps and mod extras would be 7760 reals.

Semi related: In tortue auction right now you can pick up a blue Essex at 60k reals or shop up to a blue Belle Poule going for 300k. So, good luck if you decide to immerse yourself into the player driven eco madness.

My convenient calculations get more complicated if we are to consider Rättvisan vs. crafted Aga or Wasa. You have to part with almost 3k doubs for those and be the lucky owner of a permit for the Wasa.

I'll let the reader decide in spite of @HachiRoku's complete monopoly of the truth, facts and the definition of the term "P2W". 

[LeBoiteux]

54 minutes ago, Zlatkowar said:

I am a little amazed by what I read here. I mean I get the logic, the way you put it makes perfect sense. It encourages battles, etc... But don't you think there's something wrong when players are reticent in risking their hard earned ships in a battle in the first place and would then rather use their daily DLC one instead?

I don't know... What you wrote there might make sense for some, but to me it looks like an excuse for a poorly balanced risk/reward mechanism. And if you really mean what you said, that DLC Ships are there to encourage fighting and risky behaviors because the real advantage of the DLC is to have one free ship a day, and not to give exclusivity on said ship, then you should make this happen : 

 

It sometimes seems that what annoys the most those who don’t like ship DLCs is the simple fact that players can have access to ship(s) (and to the game) without having to spend time in game  (or is it ‘waste’ for them ?) to get some by crafting or buying in-game ones.

So they look for all the means to ‘nerf’ these DLCs / limit buyers’ rights : the cooldown must be longer, their woods must be only common, their rate must be the lowest possible, you shouldn’t be able to buy ships but only permits, DLC ships shouldn’t have access to PB, etc.

Your idea is a variant : what some buy should be free for others. Strange marketing principle btw : it doesn’t make someone really want to buy. Moreover, I guess the crafted L’Hermione (or whatever) should also be better than the DLC version.

As long as ship DLCs are not OP (they are not), I think players should be able to buy original designs/ships that players who don’t buy won’t get. That’s the purely ‘cosmetic’ part of the purchase.

As for the cooldown, it is a matter of balance, knowing that a player with one account who don’t have much time to play NA should always be able to play (ie have at least one available (nice) DLC ship to fight).

You must attract ppl and not tell them « come and buy this DLC fir/fir basic cutter for 100 euros you’ll be able to redeem every 6 months ».

More ship DLCs, more players, more fights.

🙂