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52 minutes ago, admin said:

He has the point if we assume an interesting, deep, amazing hauling game - Euro truck ship sim 3, that EVERYONE wants to participate in.

But our amazing and exciting hauling mini game is getting nerfed.
Clans doing port investments will remove hauling of standard resources for themselves, or their friend list or whole nation (their choice). 

 

As a result he is mistaken. Because he thinks DLC owners will still play and happily haul.  
Players who do not want to haul chose DLC ships VS chose not to play at all.

  • Choosing DLC ships keeps some crafting (need repairs, need guns, need mods). DLC ships also kill ships sometimes (which also require crafting of repairs, mods, and sometimes even ships). 
  • Choosing not to play removes ALL that demand. And removes crafted ship destruction.
    During the last data check on DLC vs normal ships 11000 battles were generated with DLC ships and 3000 DLC ships sank (before the damage model change they had the worst survivability, worser than a brig). Why? Because people love action and losing ships sometimes is part of it.

Higher class ships will further increase the demand for consumables and guns and will sink MORE crafted ships to replace them. And the profession does not change really, as people will still want niagara, surprises, indefatigables and heavy lineships. + more consumables will be needed due to more battles happening.

Now.. what he is offering by "nailing it"? His proposal is to remove 11000 battles and 3000 pvp kills for others. or to not add MORE battles. Because DLC ship buyers will then chose to NOT PLAY at all.  

 

why not simply adding things instead of nerfing one while putting the other in the game?

What I mean is that you could still add DLC ships to the game AND make the port upgrade thing to boost organized clans AND make ship crafting more solo player friendly (mainly in terms of availability of rare woods and permits) let's say just up to 3rd rates … so that the "no craft at all PVP crew" will be happily buying DLC ships, the big clans will be able to make their own migthy 1st and 2nd fleets for conquest and the "crafting solo guys" will craft and sell middle class ships to casual players (or to privateers).

I'm asking because I struggle in focusing the reason behind what It appears to me a loose/win choice instead of a win/win one.

Edited by toblerone
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10 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

There is no reason we captains without the DLC should not be able to capture and use the DLC ships. A captain buying it gets to replace it everyday and build a very specific DLC ship getting to choose the woods and such. A captain who has not bought it would never be able to replace it unless they capture another one, plus they are stuck with whatever built it was when captured. I understand the reason for not making them capturable is because ppl will just free trade the ships to friends or alts.
What if the DLC ship had some kind of parameter that it must have a a certain amount of damage or an amount of actual battle time before it can be captured....just to prove it is a real battle? Say 50% HP damage, or say the battle must be at least 20 minutes before it's capturable. Make it blocked out in the Trade options between players.
None of these parameters prevent abus of the feature by on person getting the dlc and then distributing ships via capping and recapping with alt use. Personally, I cannot see any way to prevent that.

There should be some way that every ship is available to all.......or maybe we should just be happy enough that we could sail it in that same battle instance if it is a multi-ship battle....
Afaik "non-capturable" ships can already be captured inside the battle instance they will just be lost once the battle ends.
 

 

Edited by Tom Farseer

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31 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

so of 11,000 battles that were generated and 3,000 DLC ships sank leading you to believe their survivability is worse than a brig.

Can I ask how many brigs were sailed by players in those 11,000 battles?

 

Pirate_Global_Warming_Graph.gif.ca596e1e246de75cc27ffa071e0324b0.gif

seems like global warming correlates with pirates...

Edited by z4ys
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27 minutes ago, admin said:

Sorry, but your ITS A GAME statement is not relevant to games keeping some content behind group activities.
You cannot get high end BOP gear if you don't group up EVEN In casual World of Warcraft. No chance - you must raid with others.

Unlike WOW you can do everything solo (it is just slower). Want it faster? Join the company. Wars were not fought alone. Or steal from others. All ships can be captured from players with 0 crafting.

Technically World of Warcraft has queued raids where players can queue solo and then get assigned into a raid group.  Same with most of their dungeons.  These players don't have to join a guild to get BOP gear.  But they do have to do these activities in groups of other people.  Actually this is why wow has had many players quit.....casual level content is easier than going through the effort of a guild.

 

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3 hours ago, admin said:

Yes. Redeemable every x hours

Answering @Anolytic question too. 
There were proposals and discussions to move the DLC ships to permits, but they were dropped because main reason people purchase those ships is to speed up access to pvp/pve without the need for hauling. Port investments will also allow crafters to remove/reduce hauling. 

Admin with all due respect. This is the definition of P2W. If it saves time /work.... 

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6 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Pirate_Global_Warming_Graph.gif.ca596e1e246de75cc27ffa071e0324b0.gif

seems like global warming correlates with pirates...

sounds like something you should ask the admin- I'm just repeating what they said to get an understanding.

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9 hours ago, admin said:

They did only good. 
DLC ships provide for 30% of battles and even more significant percentage of pvp deaths (content for others).
We provided these numbers before. 

This is a game about PVP fights and RVR, crafting was promised as basic and will remain basic. 
If crafters are such a powerful force why in KPR players cannot buy a good cerberus? I saw the guy who could not find a crafted cerberus, in the most populated nation.

I agree in that they did only good ( for me anyways ) but that was when we only had 2 small DLC ships, the L'Hermione is already bigger than Hercules and the new premium Wasa is a bit over the top in my opinion. Now with the new DLCs you can have a whole fleet of free ships on demand every day and let's be real - everyone who wants to be competitive on the war server will absolutely need that 4th rate. 

Also I hate crafting and had little sympathy for those complaining about DLC ships when we only had 2 but the more DLC ships you are adding, the more idiotic it becomes to actually craft ships for costly and rare materials, only to fight against ships that are free / without cost. Sinking a premium / DLC ship feels highly unrewarding and last time I checked actually is, probably to avoid alt farming with free DLC ships.

I think the 2-3 DLC ships we had were golden. Enough to stay in game and have some daily PvP without fear of loss but at the same time there was balance due to them being small ships that are no match for larger frigates and SOLs and thus building ships and economy was still important. Now we get this 4th rate, and I have this strange feeling that it will be a wee bit on the overperforming side, maybe nerfed some a few months later when the damage is already done but enough copies are sold.

I hope you understand my concerns but I don't know what the cooldown will be etc. , maybe you can make it actually balanced.

Forcing new players to get the DLC ships on top of the base game to be competitive is one thing but at some point only a fool will craft a ship, when he can get a better for free without effort, only by paying once. I think you are moving a bit too fast with the addition of more and more DLC ships. Would be fine if you removed economy / crafting completely and all ships that are not DLC ships can be purchased with PvP marks.

If I buy those DLC ships, I will drop crafting ships completely - why would I bother, I'll just play whenever I can redeem this premium 4th rate. For free, no rare woods or permits needed. Just push the button and there it is. It's not that I don't like that - I really do. It's simply bullshit to everyone who wants to sail a ship that has to be crafted.

DLC ships are great but they render the economy and crafting obsolete once you add too many and too high tiers and almost force people to buy them due to scarcity of meta wood and permits, leaving the use of crafted ships with a really shitty cost efficiency. Maybe this is your very intention but I think higher of you and would rather hope otherwise. Then again, it's all about the money, I guess.

 

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35 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

EDIT: Heck with Cerbs, Surprises, Renos in the shallows - there is even less reason for a player to sail in a 6th rate when they straight up can't compete.

The best way to balance these ships in the shallow and well other ships like DLC ships is to give them a much higher BR that you can bring two 6th rates over one 5th rate.  Which could out gun that 5th rate in a battle if they focus. The problem is that isn't the case in the shallows.  Getting the new damage model helsp with the deep water ports, but many of them still have very low BR so you can't bring a good fleet of players and ships.  

15 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

There is no reason we captains without the DLC should not be able to capture and use the DLC ships. A captain buying it gets to replace it everyday and build a very specific DLC ship getting to choose the woods and such. A captain who has not bought it would never be able to replace it unless they capture another one, plus they are stuck with whatever built it was when captured. I understand the reason for not making them capturable is because ppl will just free trade the ships to friends or alts. What if the DLC ship had some kind of parameter that it must have a a certain amount of damage or an amount of actual battle time before it can be captured....just to prove it is a real battle? Say 50% HP damage, or say the battle must be at least 20 minutes before it's capturable. Make it blocked out in the Trade options between players. There should be some way that every ship is available to all.......or maybe we should just be happy enough that we could sail it in that same battle instance if it is a multi-ship battle.... 😕

BTW, @admin 4th rate NPCs should be capturable considering the difficulty of crafting ships. Keep 1-3 rate ships non-capturable...but let us have crap ass 4th rates, plz.

I have no issue with the DLC ships not being able to be captured or traded.  This is down so you can't abuse the free ship that cost nothing once a day.  Keep it like that.  Hell even if you allow to craft them with BP's you could keep the none capture/trade thing, but i think any ship that you craft shouldn't have this restriction.  It wouldn't be hard for them to code in the two version.  You make Herc.1 the DLC ship.  You have Herc.2 as the crafted one.  The .1 can not be captured or traded.  The .2 can be captured and traded as it's a crafted ship, you also get reals for it when it's sunk cause it's a crafted ship.   They can both have the exact same name Herc in game, but have them as two diffrent ship models in game.  ;Maybe name the craftable ones refits so that you see a Herc and a Herc Refit you know one was DLC and the other is craftable and can be captured.

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31 minutes ago, PG Monkey said:

For me DLC is not pay to win ..its pay to not have to do the crafting and trading etc

Just wondering in what ship can you sink a LRQ with proper ugprades and decent captain ?

I assume you are a very decent captain and you can select 1 ship of the same class. You should sink him, he should not escape. What craftable ship will you select against a dlc LRQ ? So I will be sure at least LRQ is not pay to win :) 

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Now.. what he is offering by "nailing it"? His proposal is to remove 11000 battles and 3000 pvp kills for others. or to not add MORE battles. Because DLC ship buyers will then chose to NOT PLAY at all.  

And to use the counter argument, when the crafters and the haulers choose not to play then you will just end up with a DLC vs DLC player game. You really have to choose which way you want to go and stick with it, you either have a game that is pure PvP which may as well just be a lobby game or an OW game which caters to differing tastes but has something for everyone.

The ideal is to create some interdependancy so that all professions are catered for. The traders haul the goods and make doubloons, the crafters craft the ships and repairs etc and sell them to the PvP'ers, The PvP'ers buy the ships and carry out the RvR and protect the traders.

You read the stastics and bring out comments like 11000 battles and 3000 pvp kills, but what were the figures before DLC ships were introduced? What were the figures before fine woods and limitation to crafting?

Even staunch PvP players like Jodgi reacted positively to my post because all he wants is readily available ships to buy which can be achieved by a proper ships market place. There was a time in game where certain ships were being sold dirt cheap in LT because someone was crafting loads in an attempt to get gold ships, you were able to buy Bellonas at close to cost price if not below that in some cases. Why was this? It was because there were few restrictions on obtaining materials and permits. Restricting building only restricts PvP and forces people into buying DLC, which you have said yourself you decided not to make the DLC permit only because the PvP crowd would not accept that they would have to still build them.

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8 minutes ago, Aerospace said:

Just wondering in what ship can you sink a LRQ with proper ugprades and decent captain ?

I assume you are a very decent captain and you can select 1 ship of the same class. You should sink him, he should not escape. What craftable ship will you select against a dlc LRQ ? So I will be sure at least LRQ is not pay to win :) 

prince

 

Edited by PG Monkey
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15 hours ago, Hullabaloo said:

 

My two cents: The fuss is not about the rate so much (for me) as long as they are properly balanced. The Herc and LeReq were not properly balanced imo and Hercs in particular were everywhere and it turned the game into a farce. Thankfully the new damage model inadvertently nerfed the Herc back (the bigger frigates can now overpower them) and so you got away with it and they are actually in a pretty good place now. But that was a black period for this game and very nearly made me quit.

Premium ships are free (in game) so they are already massively attractive to those who don't mind spending more RL$ and already makes them OP, they do not need to be OP in performance too. If this Rettvisan is ridiculously fast with 6 bow chasers and kills anything that can catch it then you might get a nice injection of cash but the game will be broken again. The L'Hermione is a good ship but is balanced as is the Wasa so I can just about live with these. It would be a much better game without any RL money ships at all imo,  but obviously that's not an option which I can understand. An OP 4th rate coming in at this stage would be disastrous. You say crafted ships will be better? OK, so then I won't be making a fuss.

Completely in accord with this. Suggestion: what if DLC ships were nor able to attack crafted ships?

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I see very good ideas shared by community as always. It makes great sense and good logic, they are all problem solving minded, but I know it is in our reality, it helps a little :( 

  • I like the purposal where you can craft all ships including DLC ships. But you have to pay some huge reals and dubloons to craft, so having the dlc is better but they are not exclusive to dlc owners. If you want it, work hard you can craft and sail it. 
  • DLC ships should always be blue 3/5 ships and can have trims. To have a ship on demand anytime with any wood is enough reason to own the DLC. But redeem everyday until you get purple or gold ones, is lame as it does not cost you anything, for crafted ships you have to spend lots of resource/doublon/reals to get a better ship.
  • Every DLC ship should be average level in it's class or there is one craftable ship which is on par with this dlc ship.
  • A much better ship shop system, where you can put buy contracts for ships or filter ships being sold, including listings at freetowns ! So you can filter ships like wood type and quality and even trim. Another apprach needs to be instant sell price and real auction/bidding for ships. A gold teak/wo fast Santisima on bidding at freetown, the bidding can be accessed by all nations (we are big clans/companies so we have our workers at ports I guess), instant sell price 5 million reals, bidding starts at 2 million reals for fixed time of few days.This will boost crafting, this will give some meaning to crafting. 
  • Currently too many restrictions on ship permits. I can understand trying to make some ships rare but currently it is a bit too much. I can not understand limiting 1st rate ships behind rng chest ! I do understand increasing their overall cost, increase requirement of dubloons or combat medals or victory marks, but rng permit ? @admin wants pvp, but affordable pvp is 6th rate and 5th rate, yet competetive ships on those classes are behind some RNG permits ? How does it help ? Make big ship combat exclusive but why are you limiting small ship battles ?
  • Still in need of CONTENT, I am a bit suprised we have some kind of DLC storm coming nowadays. I would prefer to see game to be finalized with content, RVR problems / ECO proplems / PVE problems / PVP problems solved, game in good state to be released, game has content to make PVE / PVP guys happy on the long ride. After that stage let the DLC come.
  • I hope they give us DLC option until new ships are balanced, like we have purchased the DLC, for 2 weeks may be. Can reedem the ship everyday, test, feedback, so it doesn't become a disaster like before which took months to balance the Hercules, LRQ not yet ! So after 2 weeks DLC is removed from accounts and may be 1 note is given to all players which is not needed, but ship will be balanced. Ship notes did not help with balancing the dlc ships before as you do not know the ship and it is already sunk, can not provide good feedback.

These are some of my thoughts and some good feedback from community. I need to remind the boss, we want this game to be successful, I am sure players will support the developer team, but expecting some positive returns to some of the good feedbacks. Just dump and flush all my posts but so many great feedbacks on forums, just need to look at the ones which are not extreme which are voice of common players.

Edited by Aerospace
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1 hour ago, Salty Sails said:

Do it! LOL Make a video or livestream!

Hehe.   No videos but plenty of screenshots. 

0FB00495C92C0C708700A6049D3E95785DC5F9DB

Look at the crew number.  Full boarding fit with pirate rig.  Think this one had carros.  I use longs.  Never let him get close enough to hit me.  

Pretty sure @z4ys would have a few stream recordings of him doing the same.   We used to go down to KPR and hunt the hunters all day.  Good fun.

Edited by Vernon Merrill
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1 hour ago, admin said:

What? I do not get your percentages and comparisons. I think you did not get our numbers at all.

11000 Battles were with DLC ships. That is not total battles. Overall battles during check period were around 36k.  DLC ships participated in 11000 out of those 36k. And generate more deaths than brigs (who constantly die in tutorials). Brig is 3rd most sinking ship in the game by count.

DLC Ships give content. And will give more content. Claimants who claim those weak ships (by % deaths) are PW2 are constantly asked by reverse to duel him yet no-one yet accepted the bet. I guess they are only p2w on the forum (not in game)

@adminIt is impossible for us to get your numbers.  You only cherry pick to support your argument and don't show us enough to see the reality.  It would be better if you didn't show us numbers at all.  

You ignore half of the pay-to-win argument by just saying they are weaker than crafted ships.  They also severely reduce the demand for crafted ships because they are so much easier to get.  

The worst thing is that there is no fun in sinking a p2w ship they way they are currently implemented.

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1 hour ago, PG Monkey said:

prince

7 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Hehe.   No videos but plenty of screenshots. 

Look at the crew number.  Full boarding fit with pirate rig.  Think this one had carros.  I use longs.  Never let him get close enough to hit me.  

Pretty sure @z4ys would have a few stream recordings of him doing the same.   We used to go down to KPR and hunt the hunters all day.  Good fun.

Imagine, on top of that, that this ship will be particularly buffed... 🙂

Edited by LeBoiteux

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1 minute ago, LeBoiteux said:

Imagine, on top of that, that this ship will be buffed... 🙂

Just imagine....   :wub:

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5 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Hehe.   No videos but plenty of screenshots. 

0FB00495C92C0C708700A6049D3E95785DC5F9DB

Look at the crew number.  Full boarding fit with pirate rig.  Think this one had carros.  I use longs.  Never let him get close enough to hit me.  

Pretty sure @z4ys would have a few stream recordings of him doing the same.   We used to go down to KPR and hunt the hunters all day.  Good fun.

Just wondering in what ship can you sink a LRQ with proper ugprades and decent captain ?

LAS taylor? Never heard of him...

Do you have a fight against better players? With good woods, and best upgrades?

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8 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Hehe.   No videos but plenty of screenshots. 

0FB00495C92C0C708700A6049D3E95785DC5F9DB

Look at the crew number.  Full boarding fit with pirate rig.  Think this one had carros.  I use longs.  Never let him get close enough to hit me.  

Pretty sure @z4ys would have a few stream recordings of him doing the same.   We used to go down to KPR and hunt the hunters all day.  Good fun.

unfortunately it's all outdated (pre dmg model)

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So its only P2W if it has best woods, proper(non dlc) upgrades and a decent captain ?  ok

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@z4ys and @Salty Sails let's not turn this into LRQ thing, go to it's exclusive forum.

I laugh at these screenshots as I have sunk many LRQ in my shop Snow ! They are worthless as those are history now.

LRQ has crew nerfed due to nerf of hammocks but it is hp is increased and it is broadside weight is increased by 32 carro super buff. We all know 45 degrees upwind LRQ is 13.4 knots stock and Prince is 10 knots only, so a decent LRQ will never lose a fight but will escape. So it will be draw or loss for a Prince and I assure you after recent changes you can not win any broadside battle against LRQ with Prince. Let's discuss at LRQ forum.

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3 minutes ago, PG Monkey said:

So its only P2W if it has best woods, proper(non dlc) upgrades and a decent captain ?  ok

Depends.

If said Le Req is handled by said player alt and is sunk by a Prince i'd also say that that player is a noob and not decent.

It is a never ending fairy tale of heroes and drum chests.

Snarky fun at best.

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