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Just now, admin said:

Yes.
But Nelson did not craft his ships solo, why should you?

Because he was an actual Admiral and i'm playing a game (that I enjoy).  I hate to see it turning into a two (or more) tier system where some players have everything and others are poor.  I feel like you are making it more difficult to put ships in OW here.

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2 minutes ago, Malcolm3 said:

Actually we are all mostly privateers, paying for, or building our ships, but not naval officers

Not quite but similar.
East India was a private company and built their own vessels. Same here. Clans are private companies who build empires.
 

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3 hours ago, admin said:

Yes. Redeemable every x hours

Answering @Anolytic question too. 
There were proposals and discussions to move the DLC ships to permits, but they were dropped because main reason people purchase those ships is to speed up access to pvp/pve without the need for hauling. Port investments will also allow crafters to remove/reduce hauling. 

One thing that isn't fair about the Redeemables is that you have to buy them to play the shp.  The LRQ is such a unique ship it's used a lot in PB's and other things and there is no in game version of it that isn't paid DLC.  One way to help fix this and not have certain ships hiden behind a P2W wall is that these ships BP's should be able to gain in game.   Maybe have them in the admiralirty shop for purchase for a lot of doubloons/CM's/VM's.   That way you can craft them instead of buying the DLC.   You also once mention they will have notes in loot box's, which is good too.   How about when we finish the final exam we get the BP for the Herc.   Would be a good start.  The other thing is Notes/Redeemabels should only give chancec at 3/5 ships.  Any thing better should only be gained through crafting.  That will give folks a reason to craft ships instead of just buying DLC's and using only them.

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7 minutes ago, admin said:

Yes.
But Nelson did not craft his ships solo, why should you?

IT IS A VIDEO GAME.  Why am i not getting drowned each time i get ganked in NA? 

Let's be consistent. Or dont. Just release the game from Early access and than create more dlc's. Unless you dont care about backlash.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, admin said:

 

  • Choosing DLC ships keeps some crafting (need repairs, need guns, need mods). DLC ships also kill ships sometimes (which also require crafting of repairs, mods, and sometimes even ships). 
  • Choosing not to play removes ALL that demand. And removes crafted ship destruction.
    During the last data check on DLC vs normal ships 11000 battles were generated with DLC ships and 3000 DLC ships sank (before the damage model change they had the worst survivability, worser than a brig). Why? Because people love action and losing ships sometimes is part of it.

Higher class ships will further increase the demand for consumables and guns and will sink MORE crafted ships to replace them. And the profession does not change really, as people will still want niagara, surprises, indefatigables and heavy lineships. + more consumables will be needed due to more battles happening.

Now.. what he is offering by "nailing it"? His proposal is to remove 11000 battles and 3000 pvp kills for others. or to not add MORE battles. Because DLC ship buyers will then chose to NOT PLAY at all.  

 

so of 11,000 battles that were generated and 3,000 DLC ships sank leading you to believe their survivability is worse than a brig.

Can I ask how many brigs were sailed by players in those 11,000 battles?

Of course if a ship sinks more than another ship the Data "suggests" it's worse. BUT you can't only look at sinking, you have to also look at how many times a ships is used.

if a Hercules is used 50% of the time in those 11,000 battles and the Brig is used for 1% of those times then that should be like a red-alert to you that people don't sail the Brig for a reason. you can find it out I guess. Or I could tell you people don't sail it because it loses in the shallows to the other ships.

it goes back to other points that I have made.

Why would I ever sail a Brig or Mercury when I can just redeem a Herc or Requin that would always beat these ships in the shallow water area?

EDIT: Heck with Cerbs, Surprises, Renos in the shallows - there is even less reason for a player to sail in a 6th rate when they straight up can't compete.

Edited by Teutonic
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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, admin said:

Not quite but similar.
East India was a private company and built their own vessels. Same here. Clans are private companies who build empires.
 

And they built them for profits and trading, not for war at sea. So most players will be seeking for easily winning actions with maximum profits and minimum losses. Just as in reality. So fast, lightly built and heavily armed redeemable 4th rate (of rare woods) is most likely possible to rule the sea, escaping from heavier and stronger ships and catching most frigates.

That's the main problem and concern, I think, as the stats are still unknown and there are examples of Hercules and Le Requin

Edited by Malcolm3
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1 minute ago, manuva85 said:

IT IS A VIDEO GAME.  Why am i not getting drowned each time i get ganked in NA? 

Sorry, but your ITS A GAME statement is not relevant to games keeping some content behind group activities.
You cannot get high end BOP gear if you don't group up EVEN In casual World of Warcraft. No chance - you must raid with others.

Unlike WOW you can do everything solo (it is just slower). Want it faster? Join the company. Wars were not fought alone. Or steal from others. All ships can be captured from players with 0 crafting.

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Posted (edited)

Nevermind.

Edited by Stilgar
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8 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

if a Hercules is used 50% of the time in those 11,000 battles and the Brig is used for 1% of those times

What? I do not get your percentages and comparisons. I think you did not get our numbers at all.

11000 Battles were with DLC ships. That is not total battles. Overall battles during check period were around 36k.  DLC ships participated in 11000 out of those 36k. And generate more deaths than brigs (who constantly die in tutorials). Brig is 3rd most sinking ship in the game by count.

DLC Ships give content. And will give more content. Claimants who claim those weak ships (by % deaths) are PW2 are constantly asked by reverse to duel him yet no-one yet accepted the bet. I guess they are only p2w on the forum (not in game)

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We need every ship as a dlc and craftable. Guys without enough time can buy the dlcs  the others can craft the ships.  Everybody is happy

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1 minute ago, El Patron said:

We need every ship as a dlc and craftable. Guys without enough time can buy the dlcs  the others can craft the ships.  Everybody is happy

no

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1 minute ago, admin said:

Unlike WOW you can do everything solo (it is just slower). Want it faster? Join the company. Wars were not fought alone. Or steal from others. All ships can be captured from players with 0 crafting.

I don't mind slower as long as I can get everything.  I don't mind hauling if there is a decent profit.  This is why I post on here, to put these opinions out there.  I do think that you should consider the consequences if people stop crafting ships.  And they will stop crafting ships when it's far easier to just redeem a DLC for every occasion.  I really like making my own ships and hoping for that gold one, but if it's too hard to do, or if I can only craft poorer quality...I would be disinclined to continue.

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Just now, Routan said:

So dlc ships will be capturable?

Imported ships cannot be captured, but the guy i was responding was talking about crafted ships and their availability to a solo player.

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17 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Because he was an actual Admiral and i'm playing a game (that I enjoy).  I hate to see it turning into a two (or more) tier system where some players have everything and others are poor.  I feel like you are making it more difficult to put ships in OW here.

Angus, you're a good captain....  you know as well as I that you'll be able to cap some good ships....   or steal some good woods, since we know where the ports are (people gotta move it)...

Or you know a bunch of people:  Ask to get put on a big clan's friends list in exchange for some screening or something.

Yes, as someone who plays solo alot, things are about to get more difficult.

Its just another challenge to overcome.  (Think of all the shitty captains who buy the DLC and make them out of good woods you'll be able to steal...)

I dont disagree with your sentiments, I just don't think it will be quite as bad as we think.....

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, admin said:

Sorry, but your ITS A GAME statement is not relevant to games keeping some content behind group activities.
You cannot get high end BOP gear if you don't group up EVEN In casual World of Warcraft. No chance - you must raid with others.

Unlike WOW you can do everything solo (it is just slower). Want it faster? Join the company. Wars were not fought alone. Or steal from others. All ships can be captured from players with 0 crafting.

#1You can do every single activity in world of warcraft as solo player. Since Wotlk you got pug groups able to raid. You might be under the impression of crude vanilla wow. And i played WOW through vanilla up to it;s fall from grace. And besides of nolifing to be #1 on server killing raids wow was casual as it gets. You dont need to be part of any guilds to RAID top gear locations.

#2 You missed the point of "i am not getting drowned" argument. It's point is to show off you can;t use real life examples (like you using Nelson crafting his own ship). It is worthless and silly. I never said i would like ot get top loot for free, nor did i say there shouldnt be guilds. 

What i can say is "ship DLC;s with this remaining playerbase in NA seems to me like a bar owner making AA meetings and selling those suckers few drinks after. Bcs addicts will be addicts." I do not see it as moral not to help them(fix damn game that forces ppl out of pvp) , but instead sell them short time remedy (free ships that fixes gear fear issues).

Edited by manuva85

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1 minute ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Angus, you're a good captain....  you know as well as I that you'll be able to cap some good ships....   or steal some good woods, since we know where the ports are (people gotta move it)...

Or you know a bunch of people:  Ask to get put on a big clan's friends list in exchange for some screening or something.

Yes, as someone who plays solo alot, things are about to get more difficult.

Its just another challenge to overcome.  (Think of all the shitty captains who buy the DLC and make them out of good woods you'll be able to steal...)

I dont disagree with your sentiments, I just don't think it will be quite as bad as we think.....

I will indeed do everything that you mention (and tks for the props!), but I still want to put in the 2 cents of opinion.  @admin doesn't respond to every post and he certainly doesn't have to implement everything I say (but he should!!).  If I can put my opinion in the back of his mind, that's fine with me and I'm not wasting my time here.  I know he completely disagrees with me on rare goods, but he's wrong, lol.

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22 minutes ago, admin said:

He has the point if we assume an interesting, deep, amazing hauling game - Euro truck ship sim 3, that EVERYONE wants to participate in.

But .....

...

Now.. what he is offering by "nailing it"? His proposal is to remove 11000 battles and 3000 pvp kills for others. or to not add MORE battles. Because DLC ship buyers will then chose to NOT PLAY at all.  

 

I think you are missing the point. Nobody suggested removing any battles or PVP kills for others. Maybe highlighting the key points helps a little bit?

3 hours ago, Archaos said:

The problem is you have not created the correct market place for ships, as crafters we cannot put on sale unlimited ships in multiple ports, there is no system where someone can place an order for a ship in a certain port that can be seen by everyone in nation no matter which port they are in. Even if someone had the materials and dock space to craft that ship but they already had all their ship sale slots full it would cost them money to remove a ship from sale. Also the problem with building a ship off spec is that due to the multiple wood choices you may not craft the ship they require, if I am looking for a Teak/White Oak Cerberus I am not going to consider a Live Oak/White Oak one.

Create the marketplace and ship crafting will become a useful profession in the game. But in order to do that you have to open up the availability of crafting permits for the ships that people want so the crafters can make them. Currently you are killing crafting by increasing DLC ships, hiding permits behind RNG PVP activities and restricting the availability of the preferred woods.

I think he has a point though. Crafting is extremely limited at the moment due to strict limitation of resources (rare woods and permits are hard to get). All he was proposing was to implement a demand driven ship market instead of a supply driven. 

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5 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

I just don't think it will be quite as bad as we think

It is already, and on its best way to be even worse.Shipcrafting will suffer even more damage, that is for sure.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, admin said:

What? I do not get your percentages and comparisons. I think you did not get our numbers at all.

11000 Battles were with DLC ships. That is not total battles. Overall battles during check period were around 36k.  DLC ships participated in 11000 out of those 36k. And generate more deaths than brigs (who constantly die in tutorials). Brig is 3rd most sinking ship in the game by count.

DLC Ships give content. And will give more content. Claimants who claim those weak ships (by % deaths) are PW2 are constantly asked by reverse to duel him yet no-one yet accepted the bet. I guess they are only p2w on the forum (not in game)

My percentages were Hypothetical and not real.

Of course I don't have the data, you do. 

What I am saying is that of all those battles, Why do you think some ships are rarely ever seen?

What point is there for a player to sail a pickle, mercury, brig/n.brig in PvP and RvR? I can just redeem a hercules and beat every single player in those ships. They have nothing and I have a free ship.

Edited by Teutonic
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10 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

One thing that isn't fair about the Redeemables is that you have to buy them to play the shp. 

There is no reason we captains without the DLC should not be able to capture and use the DLC ships. A captain buying it gets to replace it everyday and build a very specific DLC ship getting to choose the woods and such. A captain who has not bought it would never be able to replace it unless they capture another one, plus they are stuck with whatever built it was when captured. I understand the reason for not making them capturable is because ppl will just free trade the ships to friends or alts. What if the DLC ship had some kind of parameter that it must have a a certain amount of damage or an amount of actual battle time before it can be captured....just to prove it is a real battle? Say 50% HP damage, or say the battle must be at least 20 minutes before it's capturable. Make it blocked out in the Trade options between players. There should be some way that every ship is available to all.......or maybe we should just be happy enough that we could sail it in that same battle instance if it is a multi-ship battle.... 😕

BTW, @admin 4th rate NPCs should be capturable considering the difficulty of crafting ships. Keep 1-3 rate ships non-capturable...but let us have crap ass 4th rates, plz.

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For me DLC is not pay to win ..its pay to not have to do the crafting and trading etc

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1 minute ago, PG Monkey said:

For me DLC is not pay to win ..its pay to not have to do the crafting and trading etc

But crafting and trading should be a big part in a age of sail game.

If no one is trading or running resources, who will you Rover guys fight in open world with your small pickles and snows or with your P2W LRQ?

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3 minutes ago, PG Monkey said:

For me DLC is not pay to win ..its pay to not have to do the crafting and trading etc

Considering NA isnt f2p and it is devs that are responsible for the fact crafting and trading are repulsive i dont think that is so much better. Monetization on games flaws, that could be fixed if they only wanted to.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

There is no reason we captains without the DLC should not be able to capture and use the DLC ships.

It would be exploited immediately. Since the DLC owner has a flat rate, a DLC ship is worth nothing to him (as long as he does not sink >1/day). So he might give it away for free to a friend one way or another.

I personally don't understand why DLC ships have to be flatrates. A DLC could just produce one ship note for little money. This would (a) generate constant cash flow, (b) be compatible with crafting ships of the same type in parallel and (c) would avoid any issue with exploitation as each single ship still has a (real life) value. 

Edited by van Veen
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