Seasonal Patch: The Missing Links Part 1

[Sir Texas Sir]

47 minutes ago, Luvstruck said:

Perhaps a 'Diplomatic channel' where only the LEADERS of clans with more than 25 players in it can join?

Could be a good thing with the karma system, but I'ms sure we won't see that until next year any way.  Maybe take it to the suggestion section?  We had something like this back with alliances.  Maybe allow clans to have a clan diplomatic channel that they can put friendly clans on from other nations?   Kinda how PvE guys can do so to allow other nations join there PB's and fights?

[RubyRose]

21 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Could be a good thing with the karma system, but I'ms sure we won't see that until next year any way.  Maybe take it to the suggestion section?  We had something like this back with alliances.  Maybe allow clans to have a clan diplomatic channel that they can put friendly clans on from other nations?   Kinda how PvE guys can do so to allow other nations join there PB's and fights?

thats assuming there will still be a large enough player base after they remove the chat functions. the admins seem keen on punishing the majority because a few people like to be toxic

[Frosty]

I tried the testbed several times yesterday and played a 2v2 in Bellonas. Overall, fights in 3rd rates seem balanced (SEEM) with penetration and all.. but masts are too freaking weak. I later helped @Redman29 testing some things. After that we had a 4v4 in oceans. Simply unplayable. You could not pen anything except for the 42s at 100 m, the masts were again too weak and it became soon a demasting fest more than a "let's focus fire his side". It's bad. So bad. 

Overall, since you opened the testbed server for us to test things, my experience is quite negative. The new way sails work awesomely and are immersive. Keep them like this. Wind shadow is awesome and immersive, too, but its too strong in my opinion. Accurate? I don't know as I don't have any knowledge on the matter unlike others that usually post feedback here. But is it playable? I strongly doubt it. You need to find a balance between super accurate and super arcade. This game has to be played by many players, if fights get too boring cause of too many masts that fall, or because of too many balls that bounce (talking about 1st rate fights), people are not sticking around.

In my opinion, you should revert the changes on cannons, or it will require too much work to balance them again. Fights in the live server are fairly balanced, I don't know why you need to rework guns if they pen correctly. The frigate game will be unplayable with the new patch... and that's what I fear the most.

Please, @admin, be wary of the consequences of deploying such a huge patch on combat, we know you only have one developer. Awesome job on wind shadow and sails and so on, but I honestly don't want this guy to waste his time testing penetration on every ship with every cannon (if you plan on doing so for this demasting fest and for the unpenetrable sides of 1st rates).. it sounds so unnecessary since current system works just fine.

I hope my feedback was useful. Best, Frosty

[Georg Fromm]

11 hours ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

Warum willst du das Spiel unbedingt zerstören? Hassen Sie Ihre Kunden wirklich so sehr oder haben Sie ein buchstäbliches psychisches Problem, bei dem Sie den überwältigenden Zwang verspüren, aus Trotz nur mit Leuten Hallo zu sagen?

 

Ich gebe keine Scheiße, wenn Sie für diesen Beitrag verbieten. hallo kitty, wir alle wissen, dass du nur nach einem hallo kittying grund dafür suchst. Könnte auch ehrlich sein, wie zurückgeblieben Sie sind. 5 Jahre ununterbrochenes Erniedrigen und Misshandeln Ihrer Kunden. Nicht viele sind noch übrig, um sich mit Ihrer Scheiße abzufinden.

 

Wir sind jetzt bei 500 Spielern. Nach diesem Patch werden nicht mehr als 200 sein. 

 

 

 

 

A good example of why certain people should not be given the opportunity to express themselves. Whether in the forum or in-game ...

[Conte D. Catellani]

With the wind shadow you have now to follow an order to tag the wind? Maybe starting from the last one in the line? 

 

[Jan van Santen]

so I did the tutorials on tesbed.....

for small ships both demasting and pen are way over the top...

It took poor aim me a dozen times to do demast exam in the old model, now this: (first attempt, achieved with just 8 total mast hits....) Demasting wasnt as fast as the boarding I screenshotted, but still below avg time...

On doing the endurance exam, i noticed that when sailing paralell and fireing close range, i did damage both sides of the target equally while its core stayed intact....

Is that the new "overpen" ? 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Jan van Santen

[Brig at sea]

3 hours ago, Frosty said:You could not pen anything except for the 42s at 100 m, 

Video please? 4lb (base 160) penetrates an unfitted first rate (base 100) at 400m

42 penetrates 100 at 1km

[Puchu]

Can we arrange a bigger fight on the testbed server? 

I would love to test the followings:

Small vs big  --> Effects of wind shadow

Wind shadow effects in group fights. 

Wind shadow effects in group fights with mixed fleets. How does the wind shadow of frigates effect sols.

- For now my expectations to the wind changes are high. Of course with the brawling playstyle you will suck and get stuck. That means that you willl have to adapt playstyle and mods. Line fighting will be a thing again. Im not sure if i really like that, but we will see. In smaller fights, taking the wind from someone will be huge and positioning in the fight will be suuuch an important factor. You can really lock people in place, if you know what you are doing. It raises the skillcap again and it might be what really counters the crazy accelleration buff of 180% that we had for the last patches and adds something great to it.

- giving up the wind for a sternrake e.g. will be a death sentence. 

 

About the Global chat: I personally have come to change my opinion. I think it could be a really good thing. Actually since I am sailing with my clan much more now, i basically dont have the time/energy/will to look at global anyways. The good mods and such should stay within the nation anyways i think. It might lead to a stronger national community and it all depends on the people in that commmunity how their nation treats their people. 

Some Nations will get known for being nice and friendly, some will be known for being rude. Maybe that will give some real flavor to the nations. 

PS: do you guys have stats of the pen values for the guns somewhere in a sheet? mine are old and outdated.

[Puchu]

3 hours ago, Frosty said:

You could not pen anything except for the 42s at 100 m, the masts were again too weak and it became soon a demasting fest more than a "let's focus fire his side". It's bad. So bad. 

Frosty, what mods did you use?

I think most of you experience is dependent on the fact that you used old meta mods. 

Swap out hull mods for mast mods and you will probably see a big change. look at it like this: If you go full hull mods, you wont be penetrable, but your masts will die like nothing. So you will get demasted and slowly raked to death.

If you put mast mods on, you will take hull damage again, but you will be at least able to sail. 

 

So yes, we need to adjust our thinking to the penetration, especially regarding masts. I am very sure this will shake up the mod usage, we will adapt and you will have to pick your poison, which i love!

 

There is one thing though with i would love to point out: It is really hard to find out if someone has mast mods or not. For hull you can at least see how much damage you are doing and how much your shots are bouncing. For masts, you have no clue. That worries me, since going for masts basically is a shot in the dark. I would love some mast hp bar or something that makes me know if the enemy has mast mods or not. It might also be part of the gamble. Go for masts and you dont know if it will work. go for hull and you know what you are getting. Maybe a risk/reward thing. Masts = high risk of being completely useless due to mods but if it works its amazing. Hull = wysiwyg. Safe but possibly not as effective. You can also try to make an educated guess about mast mods when shooting hull. The less you pen, the more likely it is that they are running mast mods.  Basically: the more you know the standard behaviors of the cannon balls and the pen, the more you can judge what to do. So yes, i like it. it brings some real deduction skills into the game.

[Holm Hansen]

can be deleted

Edited August 16, 2020 by Holm Hansen
delete please

[Nixolai]

2 hours ago, Puchu said:

Frosty, what mods did you use?

I think most of you experience is dependent on the fact that you used old meta mods. 

Swap out hull mods for mast mods and you will probably see a big change. look at it like this: If you go full hull mods, you wont be penetrable, but your masts will die like nothing. So you will get demasted and slowly raked to death.

If you put mast mods on, you will take hull damage again, but you will be at least able to sail. 

No, you mast will fall no matter what on the testserver, the question is when it does. In fact what you need is boarding mods, as noone is moving due to having no masts, or being windshadowed by upwind players. 

Here is a pic from one of our battles yesterday

Edited August 15, 2020 by Nixolai

[Brig at sea]

6 minutes ago, Nixolai said:

No, you mast will fall no matter what on the testserver, the question is when it does. In fact what you need is boarding mods, as noone is moving due to having no masts, or being windshadowed by upwind players. 

Here is a pic from one of our battles yesterday

Elite French?

[Vibrio Cholerae]

Just now, Brig at sea said:

Elite French?

no need with a elite you can stand 1 more shot (kind of)

 

[Nixolai]

40 minutes ago, Brig at sea said:

Elite French?

Even with Navy mast bands, 42p can still demast you at like 500 m range.

[Despe]

so mast mods are not usable, spanish sails are not usable... I have a good Coles-Bentinck Pump

[van stiermarken]

14 minutes ago, Lieste said:

Yes? You are aware that this was the end of most of the line fights between leeward French line and windward English line? The English pressed down on the French line, the head of the English line thrown into disarray by rigging damage at well outside the 'pistol shot' range of 400yds, and by assessment of spacing and numbers of ships engaging simultaneously given as likely between 1200 and 800 yds, at which point the French line wore away by succession, forming on the opposite tack ready to repeat the fire against any remnant pressing on at a longer range again.

This was the typical fight for more than half a century.

Then you got a reversal with the British advancing from Leeward, trying to break the line instead of closing parallel, followed by a general brawl in which nearly every ship was dismasted either before or while brought alongside an enemy at pistol shot or closer. (Still pistol shot being 400 yds). This was done in several fleet actions over a few decades with more or less decisiveness and success.

dismasted - not (only) by cannon shot (single balls).
I wouldn't have a problem when the sails (percent) are down after several chain shots and then cut of with a single ball shot.
but in testbed I can dismast nearly every ship in the beginning of a fight. 

you shouldn't take those old oil paintings to seriously where you see dozen of ships without masts still fighting between high waves and so on......

[Random Noob]

1 hour ago, Brig at sea said:

Elite French?

If Elite French is the solution then why did you spend money and time on setting up testbed again? Few weeks ago you said it would be a waste of money and resources.

[Christendom]

4 hours ago, Puchu said:

About the Global chat: I personally have come to change my opinion. I think it could be a really good thing. Actually since I am sailing with my clan much more now, i basically dont have the time/energy/will to look at global anyways. The good mods and such should stay within the nation anyways i think. It might lead to a stronger national community and it all depends on the people in that commmunity how their nation treats their people. 

Some Nations will get known for being nice and friendly, some will be known for being rude. Maybe that will give some real flavor to the nations. 

Removing global makes sense if we had fewer nations that had hundreds of players in them and by necessity vibrant, active and self reliant communities were formed within them.  Maybe inter nation trade channels (why don't we have this?).  We wouldn't need a global chat.  But we have 12 nations diluting an active population of 700-800 players (on a good day) and some nation chats are consistently dead.  Certain times of the day I would imagine there are less than 10 players on in some nations.  Global is the only resource sometimes.  

Personally I think it would be a mistake to remove it without actually making real attempts to moderate.  At release there were plans to make new community mods and use clan leaders to help police chats.  What happened to that idea?  It's kinda  hey global is toxic....but yea we haven't actually taken any steps to moderate it......we're just removing it. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Christendom

[Tac]

1 hour ago, Random Noob said:

If Elite French is the solution then why did you spend money and time on setting up testbed again? Few weeks ago you said it would be a waste of money and resources.

We have seen it before , fire ships OP? 
Answer:  Use buckets fire ships no longer OP.
Modules are not the answer , it needs to be tuned a hell of a lot, we’ve been here before.

[Redman29]

5 hours ago, Puchu said:

Frosty, what mods did you use?

I think most of you experience is dependent on the fact that you used old meta mods. 

Swap out hull mods for mast mods and you will probably see a big change. look at it like this: If you go full hull mods, you wont be penetrable, but your masts will die like nothing. So you will get demasted and slowly raked to death.

If you put mast mods on, you will take hull damage again, but you will be at least able to sail. 

 

So yes, we need to adjust our thinking to the penetration, especially regarding masts. I am very sure this will shake up the mod usage, we will adapt and you will have to pick your poison, which i love!

 

 

3 hours ago, Brig at sea said:

Elite French?

The thing is, you can have Mast an Rig 3 (3%), Elite French Rig (15%) and Navy Mast Bands (20%) on an L'Ocean (Base mast thickness 120) and only get your mast thickness up to 165 on the lower mast section.

A 42 long has a base pen value of 164 at 400 meters which means right under 400 meters it can start penning the lower mast section. 42 Long on a ship that has gunnery 4 and Gucuata Superior has a pen value of 168 at 500 meters.

An Ocean with gunnery 4 port bonus and 1 pen mod can still penetrate the lower mast section of another Ocean with mast and rig 3 port bonus and 2 mast mods at 500 meters. 

And this is with 1st rates, just think of the trickle down for 5th rates.

Edited August 15, 2020 by Redman29

[Knuddel]

1 hour ago, Random Noob said:

If Elite French is the solution then why did you spend money and time on setting up testbed again? Few weeks ago you said it would be a waste of money and resources.

even with Elite French and Navy mast bands u will have just 1 or 2 shoots more which needs to hit.

But i am still in mind with the Removing of Global and Help chat. IS that realy nessesary? I mean to punish whole community for stupidity and ignorance of a few guys?

[Aquillas]

On 7/28/2020 at 10:44 AM, admin said:

 

• Accuracy
  • Accuracy will be finally rebalanced (including for tracking shot)
  • Accuracy will grow with caliber as defined by the Treatise on Gunnery and other historical sources on Ordnances.

I think this is not yet implemented. I made just a few tests (reduced playing time atm), but it seems that mast sniping is even easier on testbed than on War Server.

[You]

40 minutes ago, Redman29 said:

The thing is, you can have Mast an Rig 3 (3%), Elite French Rig (15%) and Navy Mast Bands (20%) on an L'Ocean (Base mast thickness 120) and only get your mast thickness up to 165.

A 42 long has a base pen value of 164 at 400 meters which means right under 400 meters it can start penning the mast. 42 Long on a ship that has gunnery 4 and Gucuata Superior has a pen value of 168 at 500 meters.

and also important note, that is only the bottom section on the main mast

Edited August 15, 2020 by You

[Aquillas]

4 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

I think this is not yet implemented. I made just a few tests (reduced playing time atm), but it seems that mast sniping is even easier on testbed than on War Server.

Coming back on that. The Magnus effect is badly impacting the trajectory of round projectiles, including cannon balls, tennis and football shots.

In fact, the dispersion at 300 meters is not 10 times of the dispersion at 30 meters, but way bigger, because the cannon or pistol balls are rolling on themselves.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_effect

The dispersion effect of canon balls was never solved until by use of shells and rifling in gun barrels.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifling

This was making impossible accurate shots such as mast sniping.

[Conte D. Catellani]

Could be more useful to decrease the possibility of mast sniping with normal balls and increase the chances using chains? In this way you could increase or decrease the amounts of chain to balance the effect.