Redman29

Same issues

Deleted

The speed difference right now is .4% between the two and both are selling in the 15-20k range. .4% by the way is less than .1 knots on most ships, something like .04 knots on a Buc for example. Both these woods have the highest thickness values in game. Trust me, both are going to stay very valuable with or without the proposed buffs. I should of clarified though. When I meant having Malabar Teak slower than African Teak I was thinking more in line with the current difference between the two. Preferably, I believe the speed should be left alone in regards to the frame parts of the Teaks. And the super teaks really shouldn't be faster than 2% at most in my opinion.

I agree with that. Even so, I would consider Malabar Teak and African Teak super compared to Seasoned Teak even if they didn't have the same speed. I also have concerns, as this allows the super teaks to be able to outclass several wood types, including some of the heavier woods. These are the stats currently in game. Malabar Teak and African Teak on paper can take on most of these woods with no problem. The balance comes in with speed and hitpoints. Ships that are weaker than Malabar Teak and African Teak in terms of combination of hp and thickness (Danzig Oak, Oak (S), Teak (S), and Italian Larch) are faster, enabling them to disengage or control the engagement if they are the one's that initiated the engagement. Ships that are on par with Malabar Teak and African Teak in terms of hp and thickness (White Oak (S) and Sabicu (S)) have comparable speeds. Which means Malabar Teak and African Teak will have harder times controlling the terms of the engagement, enabling the ships with higher hp the possibility to get in close to negate the Teaks high thickness values. Now with the new stats. African Teak, Malabar Teak, Teak (S), and Danzig Oak have the best speed values of the ones listed above. Since they have the same speed values, Teak (S) will struggle to disengage from a Malabar Teak or African Teak ship in which it has little chance of winning a fight against. Danzig Oak is the least hit out of this as it still has the possibility to try and close the distance and make it's hp work in it's favor. The ones that really get hit hard are Oak (S), Italian Larch, White Oak (S), and Sabicu (S). Oak (S) and Italian Larch which will struggle in a fight against the super teaks no longer have the possibility to disengage, where as before they did. With White Oak (S) and Sabicu (S), which could fight the super teaks if they were able to close the distance and make their hp work will now struggle as the speed difference has gone from marginally similar to 3-3.8% faster. This means the super teaks will be able to control the distance, thereby ensuring that White Oak and Sabicu have no chance of being able to compete by closing the distance in which they can use their hp pool to their advantage. African Teak and Malabar Teak were already extremely strong but with their speed it enabled other ships to somewhat compete or have a chance a competing or the very least to disengage. With their proposed speed, combined with their high thickness values and ok hp values then they will be able to control the range of almost every engagement and a ship that can close the distance to them won't have the hp to fight them. That's the reason for my suggestion of their speed being staggered and I would honestly make Malabar Teak slower than African Teak if you choose to stagger them, but still keeping them within .5% difference of one another.

Question is can you? You see the word meta and come on here to say death to meta. Have you bothered to compare the stats? What is getting nerfed or buffed? If you would bother reading what most of the people have wrote is that we have largely achieved balance across the board and there is no clear meta atm. However, with proposed thickness changes and speed changes to the teaks it will create a teak meta all over again.

@admin In my opinion the current wood stats we had were fairly balanced with the exception of a few things as stated like White Oak Planking being faster than Teak. Some buffs were needed to some of these woods, such as Danzig Oak, Riga Fir, and New England Fir to warrant the minimum buy price these woods are now at. However, I do disagree with several of the proposed changes as they unbalance stats that were fairly closed to being balanced across the board. Teak, Malabar Teak, and African Teak should not have received a thickness buff and most definitely shouldn't be the same speed across the board. Malabar Teak and African Teak were already highly sought after woods before, with African Teak prices staying in the 15-20k range since it was released and Malabar will also being a similar range. These woods will still be highly sought after even without any proposed buffs and simply make teak redundant if you can get your hands on these as they have negligible draw backs compared to seasoned teak. I would suggest that for the frame parts, the thickness stay what it is currently and the speed is staggered with Teak (S) at 4.4%, Teak at 3.4%, Malabar Teak at 2.4% and then African Teak at 1.4%. The planking changes I am fine with as it solves the issue of White Oak being faster than teak, however I also suggest that the speed is scaled with Teak (S) at 2.8%, Teak at 2.2%, Malabar Teak at 1.8%, and African Teak at 1%. Again, this will give the teaks with huge amounts of thickness drawbacks when it comes to speed. Sabicu, the speed should be left alone. Sabicu is already extremely underused and making it even slower will only further hurt it. For most of us, certain buffs to the teaks aren't needed as they are viable as it is now and large buffs to their speed and thickness will make them borderline op even when compared to the heavier woods like Locust and Live Oak. Other than that, most of the changes I have no issues with unless I overlooked something as most are changing acceleration, speed, and repair across the board.

If I recall at one time there was talk about adding the Montañes to the game. Don't ever know what really came out that though.

It was from Vera to Saint George's an back. Won't go too much into details, but figured I would add point A to point B for context.

Only 3/5th of that group was his

No it was directed at you. You keep making subtle remarks about those of us who are complaining and even celebrating the fact that in the initial proposal our meta build would be nerfed. But again, I ask you did you bother to look at my data or even the data initially posted at the start of this thread? Do you consider Cag S / WO S, Oak S / WO S, Sabicu S / WO S or even WO S / WO S meta builds? Yeah, the meta builds would of been nerfed but so would almost every other build in the process. Ironically, the meta build LO S / WO S would of received less of a nerf compared to the non meta builds such as I listed above. I can live with a 30% change to the characteristics of the current wood to make way for the new woods as has been proposed and can get behind that. But if you think a substantial nerf to the vast majority of ships across all builds was good for crafting then more power to you, and since you play on PVE so numbers don't matter as much there. But for me, having spent months collecting and crafting seasoned wood to build ships out of only for pretty much all of them to be nerfed and in several cases be rendered obsolete would of seen me leave the game as well as a lot of other crafters on the PVP server and numbers do matter there.

It has not been stated how we will get new woods but atm wooden chests do not drop them. And honestly shouldn't. Too much revolves around farming wooden chests from HDF as it is.

Did you look at the chart I posted at all? Port bonuses were in the game at release so no ships were made obsolete. Seasoned wood did not make ships obsolete, they made stats better than non seasoned but are still very much viable. DLC ships made no ships obsolete, as in most cases they are worst than crafted ships with random port bonuses, but the DLC spam in PvP gets old quick. The issue here for most of us was the nerf to the current woods and not that these new woods would be better in some cases as we knew they would be. My biggest issue was the hp nerf to White Oak as almost every ship used in RVR has WO planking for the hp buff. And then to come out and say WO gives 0 hp is a drastic change and really does make ships obsolete. Perfect example is WO S/ WO S build. The only reason people build that for Port Battles is for the hp buff and repair amount. I mean just look at those stats compared to a base L'Ocean. A lose of 6300 side hp is 26% reduction in hp total with only 3 additional thickness. You've decided to build an entire fleet of seasoned PB ships out of WO/WO wanting to trade thickness for hp which is a viable strategy. Your enemy has built a seasoned fleet out of LO/WO which is again a viable strategy trading speed and less hp for more thickness. Now WO (S) hp value has been reduced to 0 which means the nerf to your WO S/ WO S fleet is huge compared to the nerf to your enemy's fleet of LO S / WO S. Most people save their seasoned PB ships for the defense of key ports for the protection of their crafting port from other players. You are now at a distinct disadvantage as your entire fleet of WO ships are now substantially worst compared to LO / WO ships when before they were not, increasing the chance of you losing your crafting port. I have no problem to a slight nerf due to the rework of wood characteristics as we are getting additional positives/negatives that before were not in game. But removing the hp bonus from a wood in which the only reason someone would build a ship from that combo was due to the hp bonus, by definition makes that ship obsolete.

Vic 65 base is slower than all other 1st rates. Santi and L'Ocean you can craft with sail 4 where Vic 65 is random. So they overall are around same speed if not slight faster even non seasoned unless you get lucky with Vic's Port bonuses. Margin is so low they are about same speed. So speed probably wasn't greatest example.

Making the new special woods better than the seasoned woods will only increase the gap between the player base, especially if they end up only dropping in the shop as the price for them will sky rocket meaning the richest people on the server will be the ones that are most capable of building ships from them. Also, if someone brings a full Victory 1765 fleet into an important port battle they most likely will lose. A non seasoned L'Ocean/Santi fleet will beat it 9 times out of 10 as the Victory lack dpm, is slower, and will lose when it comes to boarding. There's a reason the Buc is still the meta PB ship vs the Redoubt and Implac; even if they are not seasoned. With slight tweaks to the currents stats as admin has suggested along with the news woods coming in with similar stats across the board it will lead to many many new combinations in which there isn't necessary this is better than that type of scenario. Especially given the tweaks to repair times and amount. Especially if they open up planking to include LO, Cag, etc as there will be many many more combinations.

Awesome. Overall, I do enjoy a lot of the changes being proposed. I really like the variable repair based on wood as hopefully that will shift away from the repair meta. As well as the variable splinter damage based on wood. Still don't quite understand the turn inertia. As in the heavier the wood the worst the turn rate is? Also, how and in what way will the new woods be available? I have found some for sell in ports by AI, but it seems to be random.