William Death Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 No. Sorry to burst your bubble, but noobs will get wrecked by pros with or without books, with or without fancy woods, with or without slots. Books are only important and possibly “make or break” the fight when two skilled players go at it. @Angus MacDuff mentioned that already. Having been guaranteed our ranks and crafting xp, only to have it be wiped; and being promised a special and unique testers-only ship, only to hear that will be DLC purchaseable by anyone.... I feel keeping books and ship knowledge is the least we can have. Many of us spent thousands and thousands of hours and hundred+ dollars testing the game. On a a final note, if testers keep all books, please tell me what is the difference between a new player the day the game is released and one who buys the game a month later? No matter when a player starts, someone will ALWAYS have superior gear than them. People act like release is some magical time when everything is going to be equal and all players get to level up “together”. Doesn’t work that way. Applying the “I want all new players to have equal footing” logic, there should be a full wipe every server reset lol. Get real. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sento de Benimaclet Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Wipe everything? At this rate they are going to ask us to throw out the veteran players of the game because the experience of thousands of hours we have, can not be wipe. xDDDDDDD. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 I don't mind if they stay or go, but if you spent time on getting them and you are keeping your advantage at release then at least you did earn them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fox Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Quote On a a final note, if testers keep all books, please tell me what is the difference between a new player the day the game is released and one who buys the game a month later? No matter when a player starts, someone will ALWAYS have superior gear than them. People act like release is some magical time when everything is going to be equal and all players get to level up “together”. Doesn’t work that way. Applying the “I want all new players to have equal footing” logic, there should be a full wipe every server reset lol. Now that's a really good point. Hadn't thought of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 4 hours ago, o7Captain said: Please nerf that 3% speed on art of ship handling, it makes so big difference that you can escape from any frigate on ocean. There are other mods and such that gives you the same if not more speed increase. You can now buy Navy Clock in the store. Something we all get one free of for doing the Tutorial and it gives 4% speed. 3 hours ago, Socialism said: I really really really don't want to do redo the ship knowledge slots. Especially now that half of them are behind a permit wall. Yah I kinda would like to keep them, but than I thought, we have to level any way. So we will prob get most of those slots open that way. It's the SOL's that are a pain in an arse. Just a first rate you can level over twice getting most of it's slots open. I really wish that some of the ships shared points. Also you should be getting xp for travel going towards your ships so that you can open up trade ship xp slots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njord Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 hours ago, William Death said: No. Sorry to burst your bubble, but noobs will get wrecked by pros with or without books, with or without fancy woods, with or without slots. Books are only important and possibly “make or break” the fight when two skilled players go at it. @Angus MacDuff mentioned that already. Having been guaranteed our ranks and crafting xp, only to have it be wiped; and being promised a special and unique testers-only ship, only to hear that will be DLC purchaseable by anyone.... I feel keeping books and ship knowledge is the least we can have. Many of us spent thousands and thousands of hours and hundred+ dollars testing the game. On a a final note, if testers keep all books, please tell me what is the difference between a new player the day the game is released and one who buys the game a month later? No matter when a player starts, someone will ALWAYS have superior gear than them. People act like release is some magical time when everything is going to be equal and all players get to level up “together”. Doesn’t work that way. Applying the “I want all new players to have equal footing” logic, there should be a full wipe every server reset lol. Get real. Just quoting this so people who keep bringing this topic up can read it twice. Maybe reading it multiple times will make it easier for them to understand? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrez Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 For a fair release wipe everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van der Clam Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 10 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said: I never said books don't matter. Why do people insist on making up quotes and then using that as some sort of valid argument? Books matter to ME when I'm fighting someone of equal or better skill (who may also have the books). This whole conversation is based around the so called level playing field where veterans are supposed to be just as bad as a brand new player. That is a fiction and taking away veterans knowledge (BTW, I DON'T have all the books) will not make a difference in that specific case. I happen to agree with you in this regard. These things all matter greatly when they are the difference between two skilled players. They don't mean a thing against a noob...and that's the point of this whole discussion. P.S. Someone should gift me the 5 rings....I'm really a delightful fellow! I did not mean to misquote you. But if books matter when it's pro vs pro, then books and better crafted ships would also matter for newb vs newb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socialism Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Sir Loorkon said: ...stop running in circles! 11 hours ago, Velhelm Von Marrius said: That is all he knows how to do. Shills gonna shill. All they know how to do. ----- Anyway, informative contributions to the thread gents! Edited April 5, 2019 by Socialism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kala4 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 15 hours ago, Socialism said: And he also said no exp wipes......no third rate DLCs.....somewhere I think he even said no DLCs before release. You have full freedom to get unhappy, upset, very upset, or outraged about the DLC. You are not allowed to post fake info about other people words here. DLC for 3rd rates are promised in 2015. Here is the quote you can use in the futurehttps://forum.game-labs.net/topic/4668-open-world-prototype-rules-of-engagement-ship-loss-and-spawning/page/11/?tab=comments#comment-91605By Quoting developers with "no third rate DLC" you are spreading fake information and incite people to rage and get upset (because DLC is an upsetting subject, some might believe you).We were instructed to give first warnings publicly from now on. Consider this a public warning on Rule 11 of the forum rules.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potemkin Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) Christendom twisting people's words and flat out making stuff up? Nothing new there. Wipe everything. If the game gets an influx of new players no one should care about not having their books...unless they suck without them, in which case the salt will be hilarious. If we don't get the influx it probably wont matter anyway. Edited April 5, 2019 by Potemkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKY Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 17 hours ago, MacaroniMax said: I am convinced seeing yesterdays OP performance by the top Admirals in Game at noob ports Capitol areas that ,Books etc all need to be wiped .they are OP then And have the clans to be OP when release comes.. This is the game you wanted released on a lot of levels ,Why should THE pvp gankers not have to pve again<>? FYI, some players including myself have been playing on alts with no books whatsoever and even no ship knowledge. Guess what? We still kill tons of people including 'veterans' may it be in 1V1 or fleet action. Actually some of the top players still don't posses crafted books or rare books. (and yes I have a few well known players in mind) Books don't matter as much as you think they do, but you only realize it once you don't need them as much. That being said, I for one, could not care less whether books should be removed or not at wipe. I'll be doing pvp either way and eventually buy books from others or only use admiralty books. Same for crafting xp and ship knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meraun Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Socialism is Christendom? Now many things make much more Sense 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Tell me more how encyclopedia of ship handling doesn't matter "much". 😑 If it doesn't matter "much" there's no issue with wiping everything. No double standards please. Be honest at least once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forbin Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) Because Encyclopedia and art of ship handling desn't matter much between a new player and a veteran, but matters later. Grinding these books is a pain. Not sure that players that have grinded thousands of hours will want to grind all over again. A complete wipe will mostly wipe a lot of players. Edited April 5, 2019 by Forbin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georg Fromm Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) Vor 16 Stunden sagte Sir Loorkon: Der Administrator steht fest, dass die gelernten Bücher nicht gelöscht werden. Warum diskutieren wir Fakten? lol, make my day Edited April 5, 2019 by Georg Fromm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk nChance Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) @MacaroniMax My personal view on the wipe is everything goes, and I mean everything including all DLCs. Not sure how that would work in practice though. The only thing I want to take into the new Universe is my name, and given an option to change it. The 4400hrs I’ve experienced testing the product is enough for me. However, we run into some real problems with this method. Hear me out and I’ll explain... On launch day Game-Labs have three target players. The first category is current players playing right now. Second category set and by far the largest of all three is the Old Player who once played and will probably give it a go on launch. And the final category is the brand-new player the smallest group of the three, but with time adds to Category1. Category1 players are in effect GLs current Customer base. I believe the majority of the community actually do understand and want a complete Rank and Craft wipe. Forget about the PR fubar. A few years back the idea of having to re-climb the Craft ladder was a massive worry. Current game mechanic as caused a shift to Skill Knowledge and Books taking its place... This threat of losing these items is the same effect Craft had in the past... Category2 players bought the game and played it. Over the last couple of years, they gave up due to many reasons over the development phase. Some have tried to restart with difficultly learning a new curve and how much the games mechanic as now changed. They will give up playing again within two months of coming back, this all pre-launch. When the Launch happens, they will probably try it again to see the changes to the final product. Category3 players Buy the game on launch Day1. They became interested via the pre-launch marketing drive and thought to give it a go. They expect everybody to be on a level playing field at the very start of the Universe. However, concerns surface, that Category1 players with all their game experience get to keep Skills and books, even their P2W DLC ships and warehouses and other stuff. If this is true, what’s the point? Elite Dangerous and other disasters alike. In fact, you can’t buy the standard game, you need to double the purchase price for all the DLC extras needed to just stay level never mind compete. No, they’ll give it a miss. Understanding Carry-Over Imagine back to when you first started at Rank1. Now think about how long it took to get to Rank10. Between 1 & 10 how much Gold and Resources where added to the economy and game as a whole. Do the same with craft from 1 to 50… How much gold, resources etc…? It’s quite a lot you’ll agree. If on day1 on the new Universe YOU redeem both Rank10 & Craft7(50) how much have they contributed to the economy or game as a whole? Actually zero, and in that lies a massive economic sink hole. Do it with Knowledge or skill books or whatever it still impacts negatively the same result. This also true with any DLC product except Paints and flags. The below link is my old ‘Junkie & the Dealer’ post about the May’17 wipe. We’ve all learnt a lot since then, but I wanted to highlight ‘The Dealer’. The Dev’s softening the blow (excuse the pun) giving away a couple of ships with both your Rank & Craft xp seems fine. https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/20652-the-junkie-his-dealer…/ Unfortunately, the economy took an age to get going, why? There was no impetus to climb ranks or craft levels and thus there was an invisible sink hole in the economic game. Have a think about this for a minute. My final suggestion at the bottom of that post is... well... funny So, here is where the Idea: The Equalizer came from. Rank Promotions Change & Books I genuinely believe the Game promotes way too quickly. The drive for Rank promotion via xp is to gain access to larger crews only. In itself there is no achievement. In my experience and am sure some will agree, I’ve seen too many new players within weeks sailing a Bellona to get crushed hard by the game. This system I would like to see changed at the launch with three component hurdles for each Rank. 1. XP gain, like now an xp hurdle needs to be achieved to rank up to the next hurdle. This XP number grows exponentially each rank level. 2. Time Hurdle, similar to XP with growing length of time. 3. Final Mission offered. Once 1&2 are achieved the PC is offered a Rank Mission. Can be attempted many times until won. When successful the Rank is increased plus you are given specific Books to be redeem. This system although marginally longer for you and me, will be invaluable to the New Player. This is where they learn to sail. The game giving RVR missions that can grow to include Co-Op etc. Each mission will give specific rewards Cash + other + Books. These books, then help show the player the advantages/disadvantages to their use. The Books given will be of higher values further up the ladder. This helps build the PCs game development and keeps him interested longer. I think current the game seems to funnel all players down a certain goal path, whether ship design, books or guns... The Economy If we go with my total wipe from the very start, the Caribbean economy will take an age to get started. The wheels start to turn as the AVERAGE player Rank and Craft level starts to rise. The idea of using REALs for Time spent or “The Equalizer” method gives the game two key advantages. The first is the Category1 players will spend REALs from Day1 and continue to do so as they build out their infrastructure strategy. BUYING a stock-shop offered SoL on day1 is not a problem but you can’t sail it yet... The inward investment builds as the rank and craft level increases. The second and more importantly is the attraction to Category2 players (the largest group). The level playing field is a great starter hook to get them to try. The Cash bump is the hook that’ll keep them interested longer. Unfortunately, without it, they’ll probably quit again within two months... Wouldn’t the New Players Category3 be upset with 1&2 cash bumps. Well actually no, we all start on this level playing field which is what they want and need. The Cash, early on is a massive hinderances in the early stages. Think Bellona... Sorry to push my idea, but total wipe wouldn’t attract the largest group of players for long enough. Norfolk. https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/28817-idea-the-big-wipe-equalizer/ https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/20652-the-junkie-his-dealer…/https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/28448-do-we-promote-too-fast/ Edited April 5, 2019 by Norfolk nChance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socialism Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Kala4 said: You have full freedom to get unhappy, upset, very upset, or outraged about the DLC. You are not allowed to post fake info about other people words here. DLC for 3rd rates are promised in 2015. Here is the quote you can use in the futurehttps://forum.game-labs.net/topic/4668-open-world-prototype-rules-of-engagement-ship-loss-and-spawning/page/11/?tab=comments#comment-91605By Quoting developers with "no third rate DLC" you are spreading fake information and incite people to rage and get upset (because DLC is an upsetting subject, some might believe you).We were instructed to give first warnings publicly from now on. Consider this a public warning on Rule 11 of the forum rules.. 1 hour ago, Potemkin said: Christendom twisting people's words and flat out making stuff up? Nothing new there. Wipe everything. If the game gets an influx of new players no one should care about not having their books...unless they suck without them, in which case the salt will be hilarious. If we don't get the influx it probably wont matter anyway. hmmmmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiedemann Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Lets all calm down, count to 10 backwards and if that does not work step away form the keyboard!!! Just stop writing shit about wiping grinded knowledge slots and precious skill books! They are seriously hard to get, I got most of them before they reduced the drop rate even 😅 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njord Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 6 hours ago, van der Decken said: then books and better crafted ships would also matter for newb vs newb Yes, of course they do. But ships will be wiped and all new players after release will all start even / fair without books. Everyone who is not a "newb" had the chance to collect the books during testing prior to release and it is still possible. New players will face other new players both without books and veterans all have the chance to complete their collection now, which also helps with getting the game ready for release faster due to more people testing the new features / mechanics and reporting bugs / giving feedback. The books generally do matter ( obviously ) but they can only enhance skill that you already possess. They only really matter in engagements between opponents of very similar or equal skill. And this is why the "new players" and "fair" arguments are so void when it comes to this topic. Veteran vs veteran, books can matter and both had and still have the chance to collect them = fair and balanced. New player vs new player = books also can matter and both will start without after release = fair and balanced. I don't see the problem to be honest. The "new players hurr durr fair" argument is simply a excuse for people so they don't have to state their actual biased argument " I didn't bother to test the game much or grinded any books prior to release and now I want books to be wiped because I don't have them and don't want loyal testers to keep at least their progress on books for putting in all the time testing, because it would be fair to them but somehow in my twisted mindset I think it wouldn't be fair to me, even tho I had the same time and chance to unlock my books but simply didn't give a shit." 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shunt Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 i find this expression of things need to be fair at release to be a strange one it wasnt fair when I bought the game ... i was sailing a basic cutter out of KPR the pirates had just captured Carlisle ..there was no safety zones. they had gold powder monkeys and and gold marines ,,, I had none and there were a lot of them consider the amount of new players expected to buy the game at release ...what percentage do you think wil not buy because not everyone starts on a level playing feild ?? Ive not played any mmo game wher ive expected to start oN a level playing field and compare that to the number of existing players that will leave if you expect them to re grind everything from xp to books Its my belieif that a full a total wipe will do more harm than good 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kala4 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Socialism said: hmmmmm? This post referred to first rates. Your opinion can be different, but it does not matter in this context as line ship is a wide definition and can mean anything (devs called surprise lineships of the shallow waters once). If in doubt refer to the original statement for specifics. As you can see 3rd rates and and maybe 4th rates will be DLC. Other line ships won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socialism Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 @Kala4 per your original post, was my info fake? If not I'd like an apology. I am not spreading fake info, just merely repeating lines from the man himself. Your interpretation of the word "lineships" might be different than mine. I use historical reference where 3rd rates and even 4th rates were included in lineships. Since this is a historically themed age of sail game, one would presume that the same references would apply. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_line_of_the_Royal_Navyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_line_of_France (they only counted third rates and above) So again, was my info fake? A more proper response to my original post would be that suggest that I did not have all the info and that admin made a more specific quote 3 years prior. Not to call my words, or anyones for that matter, fake news. If we are going to be shifting to the new community moderator system as detailed the other day, our community reps....meaning you....should be able to convey information back and forth accurately and without bias. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kala4 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, Socialism said: @Kala4 per your original post, was my info fake? I am not spreading fake info, just merely repeating lines from the man himself. Your interpretation of the word "lineships" might be different than mine. I use historical reference where 3rd rates and even 4th rates were included in lineships. You say that developers said there will be no 3rd rates in DLC. Here is your statement 20 hours ago, Socialism said: ..no third rate DLCs.. Yet they said there will be 3rd rates There will be 3rd rate DLC as promised in 2015, there will be no powerful line ships (1st 2nd rates) as promised in 2015 and later. You chose to ignore this statement because it does not fit your agenda. Stop going in circles and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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