Norfolk nChance Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Idea: The Big Wipe Equalizer Short version at the bottom @admin You’ll need a glass of red for this one… The topic of the Big Wipe before the full game launch is never far away. It’s a hard problem with no easy answer. However, I wanted to give you an idea that just might work. I would ask that you read the whole post and come at it with an open mind. Then tear it to shreds… The Point of View Problem 1. The Current Player (Hardcore) He has Rank10, Craft7(50) loads of Knowledge and rare books. After a few thousand hours of grind, books and knowledge to even contemplate starting all over again is depressing. Maybe a game stopper. Why do we need a total wipe? How many new players are we expecting…? Not many my guess 2. Inactive Player Same as above, but he’s going to wait for the launch. There is no added value grinding anything at the moment. No Fun and to what end? Or he stopped playing more than six months ago for many reasons. May give it a go on launch but if it’s a totally wipe that feels like hard work starting over… 3. New Player Buys game on day1. He’s got issues with the above Hardcore Player. If he’s allowed to carry over his rank craft knowledge skill books etc… what chance do I have? Plus, he’s also got all that game experience… Think I’ll pass on this… Now obviously these are some very broad strokes, but probably covers most players over three categories. In my humble opinion I believe in a total wipe. However, if we do this, we are in danger of killing the current customer base. The Inactive player may try it, but he’s already quit once. He’ll also need to reclimb the grind ladder… The New Player is an unknown entity. Marketing drive and push will bring in new players. Flat playing field is fine for him and expected. So, the New Player will need to replace the other two and add more to build on the game for the future. I’m not expecting a massive influx at first… this could be a problem. If we allow certain carry overs… knowledge or craft or whatever to placate 1 & 2 then 3 won’t join. These categories highlight the juxtaposition problem. Am sure you can think of many more conflicts as well, but this paints a simple picture all the same. Carry-Over Problems Imagine back to when you first started at Rank1. Now think about how long it took to get to Rank10. Between 1 & 10 how much Gold and Resources where added to the economy and game as a whole. Do the same with craft from 1 to 50… How much gold, resources etc…? It’s quite a lot you’ll agree. If on day1 on the new Universe YOU redeem both Rank10 & Craft7(50) how much have they contributed to the economy or game as a whole? Actually zero, and in that lies a massive economic sink hole. Do it with Knowledge or skill books or whatever its still the same result. The below link is my old ‘Junkie & the Dealer’ post about the May’17 wipe. We’ve all learnt a lot since then, but I wanted to highlight ‘The Dealer’. The Dev’s softening the blow (excuse the pun) giving away a couple of ships and both your Rank & Craft xp seems fine. https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/20652-the-junkie-his-dealer…/ Unfortunately, the economy took an age to get going, why? There was no impetus to climb ranks and thus there was an invisible sink hole in the economic game. Have a think about for a minute. I highlight players looking at a 10day Universe with 4,000+ hours of game time. This is important because all testers will carry over in game time play into this new Universe. Side Note: I genuinely believe the Game promotes way too quick. This I would like to see change at the launch with a mix of xp and time component hurdles. This is the link below… https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/28448-do-we-promote-too-fast/ Idea: The Equalizer Imagine NA-OW launch. The day before everything is wiped from the STEAM Client apart from your in-game name. You launch the game, asked to change name option, pick a Nation and location etc. Upon port entry in the Redeemable box you’ll find a number of Doubloons and REALs. The amount will be defined by ONE In-game hour played = ‘x’ number of Doubloons and ‘x’ number of REALs. An example might be 0.5 Doubloons and 500 REALs per hour. If you look at my profile in STEAM, you’ll see I have 4,000hours. So, let’s look at a few players… @Norfolk nChance 4,000hrs 2,000 Doubloons 2,000,000 REALs @Liq 12,000hrs 6,000 Doubloons 6,000,000 REALs New Player zero hrs 0 Doubloons 0 REALs @Jeheil 2,600hrs 1,300 Doubloons 1,300,000 REALs The FX Rate… The cross rates of 0.5D & 500R to 1hour might be way off, but what do you think it should be? Less or more and the ratio of Ds to Rs. It must reflect the time a player has given to the game fairly. The Possible Point of View 1. The Current Player (Hardcore) He’s not happy having the whole restart thing, but what an opportunity. With all his peers starting at the same level he can forge or carve out a much better position than before. Careful resource planning and strategic locations plus he won’t be out gunned or ganked by clans to start. 2. Inactive Player The fact that we all start the same level means the Current Hardcore don’t have that strangle hold to start with. A quick learning curve, with the cash from the hours spent works really well at holding him into the game up that grind ladder. Haven’t played for a year and yet his hours of input are worth something. This is the hook that draws the Old guys back in like @Jeheil… and helps keep them. 3. New Player He expected a level playing field and got one. The cash the old players have the New Player doesn’t need to start with. In fact, it’s a massive anchor. How many new guys buy a Bellona after a couple of weeks? Get jumped clubbed to death dropping back to a Snow unable to afford a Cerberus no cash no resources etc. Summary It’s not a perfect solution by any means, but it kind of works. The kicker is the REALs will need to be spent on inward investment by the player. It can’t be all at once, he won’t be able to sail a line ship for sometime but will need to carefully map out his path. This means the economy grows from the very start and expands as the player base rise in both craft and rank levels. It should be a good hook for past players also. The level playing field with Gold… The key is the Ratio’s to hours played. This is more for the Current Hardcore guys and Dev’s to suggest. I’m too out of touch. Sorry for the length, and thank you for reading Norfolk nChance [ELITE] Short Version Over the last few years Denzel Washington, and in the 80s Edward Woodward were able to level out the playing field against some mountainous problems. What we need come launch day is an Equalizer… STEAM Client account sees a total wipe apart from the PCs Name. Rank1, Craft1 no nation clan knowledge book or assets. 1hour Gameplay before launch = x amount of in game REALs. In the redeemable tab each tester will receive x amount of REALs equivalent to hours played prior to launch. New Player happy will all starting on a level field. No REALs are ok as he doesn’t need them yet. Old Player maybe more tempted to try it again with level start and a cash bump Current Player not overly happy but will see the freedom of the fresh start and challenge. The REALs would be invested in the new economy. This kicker is much better than allowing Books and ranks to cross over which add no value but inflation. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Doran Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) If I can just leave me game on until launch lets do it man. Edited March 30, 2019 by Mr. Doran 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk nChance Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 @Mr. Doran Remember you’re a Category1 and would really benefit from that strategy move. In fact, as the launch date approached the server population would build. This also sucking in Cat2s like me into copying you... Great advert pre-launch Would you have a guess at the Ratio numbers for Doubloons and REALs...? N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Doran Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 If this was going to be done in any moderation I think it would have to be capped at a certain threshold. The amount of alts in existence that have done nothing but AFK farm let alone regulars who have just left their games open for extended periods of time would add up tremendously. I only have 2,000 hours and can only guess that at least a few hundred of those are AFK from accidentally leaving the game open throughout the years. With many hours from ST included in those as well it really depends on the data tabulation system. Your ratios seem reasonable for people in the "normal" hour range. But as it is obvious, people who have alts or any kind of farming scheme are going to be disproportionately rewarded to a gross extent if the reward is linear. Which is why, in order for this to work, the reward exchange rate needs to exponentially decrease past a certain threshold. If that is the case, then the massive amount of artificial hours that exist shouldn't be able to be abused. Something like a -x^4+ past the first few thousand hours. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ligatorswe Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 A good solution. I support it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeheil Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Would certainly make coming back easier methinks 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van der Clam Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, Jeheil said: Would certainly make coming back easier methinks Oh my word, he speaks again! The King and his people have worried for you and missed your letters! @Norfolk nChance I like the idea and could certainly get behind it. However, you have left out one group of people that I think many of us are...the casual. We're not hardcore out hunting PvP fervently day in and day out. Rather, if we happen upon it, we engage it. We're not grinding out the best PvP and PB ships because we absolutely must win while telling others that ship builds don't matter but only the skill does. (They know who they are, they just won't admit it.) We casuals use what we have. We're not daily players even...we take a couple days off...maybe even some of us are only weekend players. But we casuals still play regularly, despite the game status simply because we like the game. I certainly agree that the game promotes too quickly, but so many people back then complained that the grind was too much. And so, the xp decreased. I personally enjoyed the grind and would do it again...happily. One thing I would consider about the compensations is to lower the Reals a tad and let the economy work itself out. Otherwise, people will see Reals as super inflated overpricing everything in the market. I'd also consider providing newbs with something, at least keeping the Tutorial rewards for everyone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk nChance Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 @van der Decken I know there are casual players in NA-OW, but needed a bit of poetic license here to setup the 1,2,3 triangle story. The REAL and Doubloon ratios per 1x hour as I’ve stated would need the community input due to me being out of the loop and yes agree with your point. The threshold with an exponential decrease past a few thousand hours suggested by @Mr. Doran I do like. However, I glanced back at @Liq numbers and you tell me… his 12k hours against my 4k seems colossal and yet 6mil REALs versus 2mil in the game is not that wide against 8k hours of gameplay… As a side note, if this was adopted and my Rank Promotion hurdle, what do think would happen to maintenance upkeep of your ALTs…? I posted this idea onto STEAM. Now the testosterone teenagers can be more adamant and blinkered in their views more than some of our FORUM chaps… https://steamcommunity.com/app/311310/discussions/1/1771511442689858469/?ctp=2 Now they say a picture tells a thousand words… I’m quite sure he never read the whole post or came with an open mind. If he had he’d have seen the Rank suggestion input where the rank promotion is tied to xp as well as a time component. Even so the element of truth laid within is cutting… The Only suitable Carry-Over entity from the Old Universe to the New Universe is the hours of game play experience within NA-OW you had. Nothing else will work… Good to see @Jeheil popping in… Norfolk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Just now, Norfolk nChance said: I glanced back at @Liq numbers and you tell me… his 12k hours 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk nChance Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 I’ll pull out the thread tomorrow, its 2:30am now. You, me, Admin, Sir Texas and Jodgi in a thread about Game Hours xp and you had 13k was Admin’s quote… It’s a couple of months ago now Norfolk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbler (Retired) Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) What about for every hour played you gain an influence point (service to the navy) and those can be spent on release for redeamable ship notes (non trade-able). Make redeamables priced in ip's for all ships including dlc but price accordingly (give people taster of dlc in reward for time spent online one day dlc spawn). For dlc make so isn't worth farming 100 to 200 ip (hours), and ingame set at rate so provides slow trickle of ships into game and cost by rate 400 hours for 1st rate perhaps downwards. Carry through to release to encourage time ingame and reward online presence for playerbase. Edited March 30, 2019 by Dibbler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 21 hours ago, Norfolk nChance said: I’ll pull out the thread tomorrow, its 2:30am now. You, me, Admin, Sir Texas and Jodgi in a thread about Game Hours xp and you had 13k was Admin’s quote… It’s a couple of months ago now Norfolk rgr, id like to see that post 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneakyfinger Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 On 3/29/2019 at 11:21 PM, Mr. Doran said: If this was going to be done in any moderation I think it would have to be capped at a certain threshold. The amount of alts in existence that have done nothing but AFK farm let alone regulars who have just left their games open for extended periods of time would add up tremendously. I only have 2,000 hours and can only guess that at least a few hundred of those are AFK from accidentally leaving the game open throughout the years. With many hours from ST included in those as well it really depends on the data tabulation system. Your ratios seem reasonable for people in the "normal" hour range. But as it is obvious, people who have alts or any kind of farming scheme are going to be disproportionately rewarded to a gross extent if the reward is linear. Which is why, in order for this to work, the reward exchange rate needs to exponentially decrease past a certain threshold. If that is the case, then the massive amount of artificial hours that exist shouldn't be able to be abused. Something like a -x^4+ past the first few thousand hours. Like this concept of rewarding time in game. Perhaps it should only count when your status is “at sea” or “in battle” to prevent/repress afk farming. Keep up the good thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njord Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 I'd rather keep my books at least than getting a load of reals and doubloons that give me an actually significant headstart. Also now that we are getting a premium 4th rate and a total of 5 DLC ships, we can let the "not fair to new players" argument finally slide completely, when debating the final wipe. DLCs are the main imbalancer now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 22 hours ago, Norfolk nChance said: I’ll pull out the thread tomorrow, its 2:30am now. You, me, Admin, Sir Texas and Jodgi in a thread about Game Hours xp and you had 13k was Admin’s quote… It’s a couple of months ago now Norfolk Hell even I don't have 13K unless you add the alts. Main is 9467 hours. The rest sit between 2-6K hours. 52 minutes ago, Sovereign said: I'd rather keep my books at least than getting a load of reals and doubloons that give me an actually significant headstart. Also now that we are getting a premium 4th rate and a total of 5 DLC ships, we can let the "not fair to new players" argument finally slide completely, when debating the final wipe. DLCs are the main imbalancer now. Even with just the Pandora, LRQ, Herc that will get us into MC level ships as soon as we do the tutorial. Pop in that 4th rate if you feel like buying it and we will be there soon after a bit of grind and we will be way a head of any new players period. Yah I'm ok with keeping books, but it's going to suck to regrind out ship knowledge. Going to do like I did when it had the stupid tree. Only grind out what I will be using and nothing more. Any one smart will set up cannons and repairs first to make money and you will be rolling in reals in no time. So I'm pretty much keep it as is and not make things more complicated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van der Clam Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 No alts. @Norfolk nChance I'm in the same boat as you. I consider myself just a casual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk nChance Posted April 3, 2019 Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 Main PCs and ALTs... Made a rod for my own back here. Will post the Admin quote, still searching through all of his posts though. I did come across this thread I’d forgotten about in the Q&A section. Make sure you sort by DATE to follow along the chat... https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/26279-how-do-i-set-up-an-alt-account/?sortby=date The Question was how to setup an ALT account, my Déjà vu guide was quoted. Via Sandboxe 1x ALT its free. @Liq follows up with a very good post regarding the Paid version and the crush it can have on your machine. His screenshot shows 10x NA clients, implies whatever you think it does. With @Sir Texas Sir giving a YouTube and others chipping in… My Main PC Norfolk nChance 4k hours my ALT Norfolk nWay 400hours gives a combine 4400hrs. This I class myself as an Old Hardcore player waiting on the side-lines… Category2 Maybe Admin was assuming @Liq entire population within NA-OW? This I have NO problem with at all if the case. Remember we have never PLAYED Naval Action only tested it. Whether AFK, fishing, Farming, ganking ... ALTs are still testers all the same with exactly the same given rights as your Main Player Character... Opening Point Distraction I don’t want to detract from the idea: The Equalizer, but might as well cover some other points raised. Whatever solution the Dev’s come up with, it must be simple to implement. A fair criticism of REALs for Time is it favours the ALT Farmers. This proposed by @Mr. Doran @Banished Privateer and others. I’ve pointed out just above that all accounts are TESTING and not playing the Game. Looking at the rewards I proposed the range from Zero to a very high hours Player was to show the differences. Not just using @Liq but @Sir Texas or others. YES, they rightly get more REALs for their testing input. However, its not Grossly higher than mine in terms of time to earn the cash difference. Does that make sense…? The proposal of a hurdle by @Mr. Doran I do like, but actually feel is not needed in the end. The actual REALs difference is not much compared to time input. Also bare in mind where will these REALs end up…? In the end not opposed to the restriction if wanted. Remember NEW PLAYERs have no need for REALS, in fact it’s a hindrance in the early days. Think Bellona… Rank Promotions and ALT roll overs The Rank promotion xp tied with a time element will help in many ways. The main benefit to the NEW PLAYER obviously. To you & me and our MPC more grind but we know what we’re doing so not such an issue. The Grind will be on our ALTs. Is this a good a thing? Norfolk nWay was used in many different ways with Rank10 Craft50 and outside the Elite clan setup. I’d need to invest a hell of a lot of time in that ALT to get him back to the same place. This along with @Norfolk nChance my main as well. So, players with plus five ALTs or more will have these PCs on specific roles Farming, Twink or Mule…, but not all three… Time will hurt ALTs in the new Universe, more if my Promotion idea was also adopted. The Economy The idea will add investment to the economy from day1. With the game’s average player Rank and Craft level increase so too would the expansion in the economy also occur. What we don’t want is @admin softening the blow. This has a major negative effect on the new universe which we’ve already witnessed. My problem is the RATIO reward pay-out. IS IT FAIR? It replaces all your hard work including knowledge, skills, Rank and crafting levels… Summary I will post the quote as soon as I find it @Liq you have my word. The Equalizer is NOT perfect. It is simple, will attract older players back and will add not take away from the new Caribbean economy. Norfolk nChance [ELITE] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Doran Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Without a decay rate, @jodgi bottle alts alone would net him like 25 million reals under suggested exchange rates. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk nChance Posted April 3, 2019 Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 (edited) @Mr. Doran That’s a big old number. The exponential decrease limiter cannot group a whole population a player has ie MPC + ALTs. If the game could then this would be a good hurdle. However, a player like @Intrepido who has always being firmly against ALT use and suspect a large number of hours from just one account would suffer more than a player with an MPC and multiple ALTs... The individual ALTs would probably be quite low compared to the players MPC ie Norfolk nWay at 400 only. I’d suggest @jodgi or like @Sir Texas Sir states his ALTs 2k-6k hours. Many ALTs wouldn’t reach the hurdle mark... The Promotion change is the hurdle for ALTs. Firstly, a Twink (battle ALT) would need a load of time input. A Mule (Trader) couldn’t sail large ships with fleet protection without Ranking, again time. The ALT cannot craft anything useful without input... The ALT use with little time and effort will be used as a SPY or fishing or plantation owner only. The ALTs will need time input and effort to be of real use going forward. You make a really good point, and my added promotion idea helps but not AFK bottle hunting agreed. The limiter I agree is good but wouldn’t help either with the combined numbers of hours earned. Norfolk Edited April 3, 2019 by Norfolk nChance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Doran Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 You have any idea the amount of accounts this man has purchased? He'll do the grind... sick bastard. One of jodgi's alts has more hours than Liq's real account lol. Think of Y as the percentage amount of the exchange rate and X as the amount of thousands of hours. All it does is prevent this: From becoming this: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mr. Doran said: sick bastard Can confirm. I used to argue stuff with opinions only to have people counter that with opposing opinions. Very irritating. With alts I don't have to deal with opinions, I can just point and tell. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 11 minutes ago, jodgi said: Can confirm. I used to argue stuff with opinions only to have people counter that with opposing opinions. Very irritating. With alts I don't have to deal with opinions, I can just point and tell. Yah I tell folks all mine is nothing more than a small clan I don’t have to argue about who is doing what. Plus those hours was back when I wasn’t working for a year and half and had a lot of free time for gaming or the bar. I can hardly get 5 hours in a week now on one char. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk nChance Posted April 3, 2019 Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 Yeah @jodgi does make life complicated... sick bastard. @Mr. Doran The external account discovery adds an impossible assumption, I guess. Keeping it simple with a constant regression like you suggest per account I can’t see another way. The DLC discussion I’m not touching as @Sovereign hints at with issues. However, I am convinced that Carry-Over Books and skills is a big no like the rank and craft. These also cause an economic deficit. The REAL for Time with a change in Rank Promotion needs more work. Would @jodgi and @Sir Texas Sir be happy with a ratio suggested...? Do you think you’ll have too much of a start advantage? Norfolk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyBaddger Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) We need a complete and utter wipe. Noone knows for certain, how many new players will buy this game after its release. Considering it's an MMO and the only age of sail game out there, I'm thinking alot will come in. Sometimes it's more fun to start fresh. @admin will make the right decision. Edited April 4, 2019 by HoneyBaddger 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk nChance Posted April 12, 2019 Author Share Posted April 12, 2019 In the OP I missed quoted the amount of @Liq hours played in the game. https://steamcommunity.com/app/311310/negativereviews/?p=1&browsefilter=mostrecent In fact, Admin had mentioned a BAD review (pointed out by @liq) who had 13k hours of game time on a single client. The link above shows this review. The example I wanted to show still works, but the error was obviously mine. On a side note I personally won’t write a game review until the game is launched. It’s a struggle to take in a player’s BAD review who’s had 13,000hours worth of content on a single client. It focusing on current play NOT past or future… And that’s the point… The game can and will change before launch… Apologies to @Liq and his single account. Norfolk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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