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Exciting times ahead - pre-release wipes information

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All of this is to be expected, they did give false information. That said, its also their game and they have to do what they think will make it viable. I'm sorry their are so many unhappy players. I for one look forward to a brave new world.

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1 minute ago, Cockeyed Callaway said:

All of this is to be expected, they did give false information. That said, its also their game and they have to do what they think will make it viable. I'm sorry their are so many unhappy players. I for one look forward to a brave new world.

Isn't that the exact mentality why EA is going bust?

Customers actually do matter, they pay the bills.

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1 minute ago, Draymoor said:

Personally I prefer to not allow being lied to and mislead

I don't agree that this is the case.  Yes, they said earlier that xp would be safe, but a business decision to re-assess and change the path is not vindictive.  

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2 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I don't agree that this is the case.  Yes, they said earlier that xp would be safe, but a business decision to re-assess and change the path is not vindictive.  

If it wasn't 100% set in stone then they should not have said it was 'guaranteed''. Seems pretty simple to me. It is also a business decision to give bad information to customers and that has consequences for any product sold anywhere in any form. 

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1 hour ago, admin said:

What is certain is that books and skill books will remain safe

Good to hear. I don't care about rank xp but I would not be willing to regrind the skill books only "because it's release". Rank xp is gained passively by playing PvP - no problem at all for me.

One question tho: I understand "skill books" are the unlocks for the knowledge slots of a ship but what does "book" include? Crafting blueprints etc. ?

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1 minute ago, Sovereign said:

Good to hear. I don't care about rank xp but I would not be willing to regrind the skill books only "because it's release". Rank xp is gained passively by playing PvP - no problem at all for me.

One question tho: I understand "skill books" are the unlocks for the knowledge slots of a ship but what does "book" include? Crafting blueprints etc. ?

Until they say they will also reset the books.

You know, it looks they can not keep a promise.

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4 minutes ago, Cockeyed Callaway said:

Hate to say it John, but that's exactly what their going to do.

In which case a lot of the old players are determined to take this game down with them sad but true and it will happen. The people who said those things don't take what they say lightly


Maybe a little extreme but true for some of them this has become their life . Some of us spent more time in this game than real life. Pls don't start preaching from your moral high ground (angus and PG and the rest fo you) that this is wrong we don't care to hear your hypocritcal idiologies. We all know that if you put a lot of effort into something finish building it look at it and see how nice you made it , then someone comes smashes it to bits and laughs at you , telling you to build it again from beginning (for the 2nd time) , that person would be in a VERY VERY bad trouble .

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2 minutes ago, Bantam said:

They lied. Are you really trying to say they didnt?

 

I once told my six year old that we were going to the movies.  Then I got called in to work and couldn't take her.  I had to explain that I didn't lie to her (she was crying), but that something had caused a change in plans.  I feel like im having that conversation again...

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After following what has been the most interest and populated chat I've seen on these forums for some time, I am left with this thought. All of the people bitterly complaining, seem to think that they can somehow change or control this situation. While a few voices realize that change is not only inevitable, but good. Frankly it has been illuminating from the standpoint of which type of players I'd like to be clanned up with in the future. Ones that can't except or countenance change or those that embrace and overcome it. The choice is simple.

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3 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I once told my six year old that we were going to the movies.  Then I got called in to work and couldn't take her.  I had to explain that I didn't lie to her (she was crying), but that something had caused a change in plans.  I feel like im having that conversation again...

Comparing apples to oranges. One is personal, the other is professional or should I say unprofessional. 

Edited by Draymoor
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I have read quite a bit of these threads and believe it's time to say my piece. A few points/thoughts I would like to make.

 

Player retention is at an all time low. You must address this before you can address anything else regarding release. We see this same thing every Christmas. Interested players enter the game and then fall off within the first 30 days. Retaining maybe 10 percent of new players. Yes you will have an influx of new players upon release, but what will be any different from any other time the game has gone on sale? Those same players will leave once the current state of the game content is known.

 

It disappoints and nearly angers me that we have spent years testing, and then told we have to buy dlc TO TEST, only to get told we as testers will lose everything. I don't mind a wipe, but do and ship XP? Sounds like you told me to run up a mountain just to run down and back up again.  I've only been playing this game knowing my exp would not get wiped for boats I have to re-earn and grind to build. 

A lot of players are not saying until the wipe happens. A lot of players continued to do so. Will the players who come back post wipe even out with the number of players who do not come back?

 

Please do not release until you have fleshed out major issues in gameplay and player retention. Otherwise you are going to see a community project pop up soon and chalk NA to the private servers and open source codes.

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2 minutes ago, John Sheppard said:

FIY one of those people i know is over 50 .. about the rest i can't vouch but i would guess in 25-50 range from previous conversations

Maybe you are living in a fairy tale world where there is no violence and people are always calm and obedient?

Emotional reactions are understandable, but things don't go your way all the time in video games (or life for that matter).  This game entails loss on a nearly daily basis if you're engaging in PvP, and losing rank/assets is probably the best thing we can lose (much better than losing books/ship knowledge slots).  The XP/rank grind is literally the easiest grind to undertake.  

You aren't in control of the hand you're dealt here, but how you play it.  The discord gang that's raging about this isn't considering any positive aspects to the reset (maybe these aspects aren't immediately apparent, or don't suit their narrow self interest), or asking for details concerning why the sudden change of course, or making a case for preserving XP.  They're getting angry and making a fuss.  This is human nature yes, not not the kind of human nature that should be encouraged.  It's not something you'd encourage in your children, or nieces, or nephews, etc. 

Besides the fact that angrily threatening the devs solves nothing.  You have a chance with reasoned argument.  The emotional stuff undermines what you've written prior in this thread.  

Attempting to sink this game because something didn't go the way you wanted is cutting off your nose to spite your face.  Will they enjoy it more if fewer players are playing?  If they have a better alternative, a better game, why be concerned with this game at all?  Shouldn't the focus be on improving one's experience in this game?

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To be honest since the first talk of the release wipes I have spent the last few months concentrating my play to improving knowledge on certain ships in the hope that at least something would be worthwhile from my time playing now.  I get that a clean wipe is a good idea and I would have happily accepted that had you not misinformed us by saying that certain things such as XP  and Crafting XP were safe.  I now feel cheated....I don't care about a full wipe but you should have been honest from the start.  I'm now going to fill my time trying out some other games rather than play on in a game world devoid of any sense of accumulation.  Good luck with launch...probably be back but next time...be honest.

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21 minutes ago, Cockeyed Callaway said:

After following what has been the most interest and populated chat I've seen on these forums for some time, I am left with this thought. All of the people bitterly complaining, seem to think that they can somehow change or control this situation. While a few voices realize that change is not only inevitable, but good. Frankly it has been illuminating from the standpoint of which type of players I'd like to be clanned up with in the future. Ones that can't except or countenance change or those that embrace and overcome it. The choice is simple.

No offence but something's telling me you haven't played much before the big wipe 

let me explain why we seem so damn angry . It's coz some of us had to do the same thing twice or even 3 times and it gets really annoying

Basicly before the big wipe it went like this :

Old plaers : Fu.k this i'm not playing what's the point to grind and then be reset basicly wasting my time? I'll come back on release when i know that what i do from that point onwards won't be wasted

(read what liam said above "When can i next play where my progress will actually count and remain indefinitely?" )

Admin : Noooo come back this is the last wipe i promsie

Old players : really?

Admin: Suuuree there will be simple economy wipes only but XP is guaranteed to be safe

Old Players : ok then let's give it a go

 

Also .. what change are you talking about it? there's not talk of any change just reset the clock from the start .. same all over again

Edited by John Sheppard
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Ok, what I'm understanding from mainly your responses admin is that your willing to piss off a lot of people with thousands of hours tested into YOUR game to please the first 2 weeks worth of new players, and if that. 

 

As after 2 weeks (that's how long you said it takes) we will all be in our big ships. Problem is these new players are going to get stamp on no matter what. 

 

I can guarantee there going to be losing 5th rates to some of the experienced PvP players who are in cutters. And once these PvP guys get to the DLC Herc and Requin they are going to start sinking these new players and there shiny 4th rates. 

 

I'm looking forward to sitting back and watching banished, Redii, Moscalb do exactly that in those ships. I would highly suggest Liciano get streaming in his requin. 

 

All I see you doing is delaying what will happen anyway, within hours this will be happening. 

 

All of us that took that gamble and got the game on early release are now being punished so you can make some new players feel there on a level playing field, which will only last 2 weeks, especially punishing the NEW players that jumped on the game recently when it was said XP wasnt going to be touched. 

 

Obviously it's up to you guys what you do, but pissing off devoted players to please the new players that will buy the game in the first week, to me sounds like a stupid decision!

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1 hour ago, Christendom said:

What I find curious is the folks who've been around consistently during the EA for a couple of years are not in favor of losing everything they've gained and the folks that just occasionally come and go seem to be in favor of the wipe.  Odd that.

Yeah, cracks me up every time. It is like you have some poor peasant explaining to someone from the 1% how it would be better if everyone on the planet was poor and everyone started from 0. Can't lose what you don't have, ey?

1 hour ago, Christendom said:

I also find the claim of "hordes of newbies" joining the game at release a bit dubious.  With the current reviews I'm not sure we'll get a flood of new players.  I would of course love to be wrong.   

I agree, putting everything on supposed new player after release is walking a very thin plank. Would be better to please and cherish as many as possible of what is left from long term testers first and go from there but as long as books remain untouched I won't quit - not over rank xp. That being said I completely understand people being frustrated by xp wipe, considering it was promised to not get wiped. I only don't care about rank xp wipe because I enjoy PvP and it let's you rank up fast and easily. 

I think the reason behind this is, that they don't want veterans roaming around in SOLs trashing new players with the new boosted damage only a week after release. So ignoring what was said and promised about xp, I actually think it is better for the game to wipe rank or at least withhold rank xp for 6 months or so. Should be possible with xp redeemables, no?

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2 hours ago, admin said:

DLC is yours until the music stops! Tutorial ranks will not remain - full xp reset will be applied on release. This decision was hard but it is best for the game. 

Only books/skill books will be recovered, as they were very hard to get. XP is easy to get if you pvp.

To be honest even after max level 5 chars and one mid level with all crafting 50 I can understand the reason for the change.   The books/ship knowledge was one of the hardest grinds as you can level over several times just leveling out SOL's.  I think we will bounce back from that very fast but one thing always bother me.  While we all get the Pandora for being part of EA, this really gifts the lazy too.  Maybe look at the players that maxed level or put in so many hours and give them something else on top of this.  Thus rewarding your actual folks that tested the game.  Maybe even do it with the stages to come.  If you play so much time or do a certain mission your get this reward that will have upon release.  Some of these rewards can be a rare paint that we only have, maybe one more bigger ship that we can get into later, but isn't a DLC (ship note of the SC for all that activitly tested or something).   Suprise us when the time comes and you might find a lot more happy folks.  Most other games had tier rewards for there founders/testers than just giving every one the same thing.

Going to suck having to level those chars up again, but I think I'll prob just let the be dead after putting in 9K hours on this game and over 500 dollars I don't think I have the heart to grind them all out again. I'll prob just have one or two as a main that I play with between other games like I'm pretty much doing now any way.

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I'm all for a full wipe and fully expected it from the start, it's standard for any early access game.

 

What is worrying is the lies, lack of information and how fast it's all taking place.

They should of been clear from day one of alpha access, then no one would have grounds to argue.

There is still a huge lack of information and they should be addressing peoples concerns..

 

Also for those of us wanting a wipe you also have to realise people put A LOT of hours into the game under the premise they would retain things like exp but haven't received as much as an apology for being misled.

 

"It's nothing personal jack, it's just bad business."

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We were promissed xp to be safe.. now it turns out to be a lie

We are now being promised that the DLCs are safe .. who knows.. maybe they're aren't really and will be turned in something else? Hmm? :)

How are we supposed to believe anything now?

Edited by John Sheppard
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8 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

I agree, putting everything on supposed new player after release is walking a very thin plank. Would be better to please and cherish as many as possible of what is left from long term testers first and go from there but as long as books remain untouched I won't quit - not over rank xp. That being said I completely understand people being frustrated by xp wipe, considering it was promised to not get wiped. I only don't care about rank xp wipe because I enjoy PvP and it let's you rank up fast and easily

I think the reason behind this is, that they don't want veterans roaming around in SOLs trashing new players with the new boosted damage only a week after release. 

The reward is the ship knowledge. I am very grateful to have that at least. We have enough of an advantage just with that in comparison to a new player. So much has changed since the majority of us have started playing. I had to rank up twice after switching nations pre-DLC years. It was a huge difference and was less of a headache second time around. Experience point wipe is needed for the potential new players. When I joined the biggest thing out in the waters was a 3rd rate. No one had yet ranked up far enough to spam 1st rates. Majority of players were in 5th rates and it was very enjoyable back then. I probably would never have played past the first day if I was coming across ships far out my class. I mean who would honestly want to play a game where you are the weakest person right at the start and is thrown right in the thick of it where everyone can curb stomp you with ease?

 

Also I just want to say on a separate note to everyone that called me hello kitty among other names for stating the Devs would wipe experience even if they made what was obviously a loose promise:

tenor.gif

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2 minutes ago, Velhelm Von Marrius said:

The reward is the ship knowledge. I am very grateful to have that at least. We have enough of an advantage just with that in comparison to a new player. So much has changed since the majority of us have started playing. I had to rank up twice after switching nations pre-DLC years. It was a huge difference and was less of a headache second time around. Experience point wipe is needed for the potential new players. When I joined the biggest thing out in the waters was a 3rd rate. No one had yet ranked up far enough to spam 1st rates. Majority of players were in 5th rates and it was very enjoyable back then. I probably would never have played past the first day if I was coming across ships far out my class. I mean who would honestly want to play a game where you are the weakest person right at the start and is thrown right in the thick of it where everyone can curb stomp you with ease?

 

Also I just want to say on a separate note to everyone that called me hello kitty among other names for stating the Devs would wipe experience even if they made what was obviously a loose promise:

tenor.gif

XP wipe you say to level they playing field for the new players?

But what about the new players that will come 1 ,2 , 5 ,10 weeks after release? Should we level the playing field for them too? Why should we do it for the players that will come the first week and not for the thousands (hopefully) others to follow later?

 

This is something i just can't understand and everyone seems to miss

Edited by John Sheppard
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3 minutes ago, John Sheppard said:

XP wipe you say to level they playing field for the new players?

This is something i just can't understand and everyone seems to miss

You are missing the fact that it is not a level playing field even after the wipe. Ship Knowledge is such a significant factor and we get to keep it.

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2 hours ago, Wraith said:

Perhaps if you did the hard work of providing them truly safe, no-PvP zones instead of allowing the "safe" zone ganking to proceed unchecked we wouldn't have to wring our hands over this?  And an alternative viewpoint might be that logging in and seeing vets in first rates inspires admiration and a will to succeed. That seems like the truly "hardcore" experience you're after anyway right?  Aren't we all hardcore players?

In any case, I never really cared whether you wipe or not, but since you had literally "promised" it, I've quoted your statement about no xp/crafting xp wipe enough times to new players and people who were considering buying the game but were nervous about Early Access, etc. that now I feel like I've misled them.  That's a very precarious position to put a lot of players in who are sharpening up their Steam reviews as you hurtle towards a pre-emptive launch.

 

1 hour ago, John Sheppard said:

@admin

 

We are disscussing this on TS and Discord now 

You should know that a lot of the old players are pissed off more than you can possibly imagine and if it comes to it they-we are even prepared to retaliate on purpose

I mean farm the new players extensively to force them to quit and give negative reviews .. just letting you know how bad this can turn out.. i don't think it would be in the best interest of the game

EDIT: just to make sure ... this is not my suggestion 

@admin both these brought up a very good point.  Unless you fix these zones your going to have even more folks that stop playing this game before they get out of cutters cause the first weeks all your going to see are vets camping Capitals farming folks that are just trying to level up.  Not every one wants to PvP 24/7.    You really need to think about fixing these issues and taking away zones like you stated recently.  They shouldn't be removed but made more safer for new players and casuals to grind and level up in.

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