Forthcoming patch final discussion.

[z4ys]

13 minutes ago, Cortez said:

It looks easy taking part in PB, but it aint.

I was once a few times in a portbattle. All I had to do was waiting 10mins till points reached 1000.

I agree pbs are really difficult.

Edited August 23, 2017 by z4ys

[Duncan McFail]

  2 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

Let's set this up as suggested patch notes instead. Pretend I was @admin and like if you agree fully or post your concern. The problem I'm seeing is this patch doesn't address the problems that caused players to leave. I will adjust notes as necessary until everyone is happy or we are at an impass then we will discuss until we come to an agreement. This game needs a good fix and this patch won't do it.

Hello Captains,

We would like to discuss with you the final review of the coming fixes in general.

• Economy tuning
  • We will be increasing provision output x5
  • We will be reducing Rudder Part needs by 1/3
  • We will be reducing Frame Part/Plank needs by 1/3
  • We will be increasing Rigging Parts output x10
  • We will be reducing Block needs by 1/2
  • We will be reducing all permit prices by 1/2
  • We will reduce the labor hours and required materials for cannons by 1/2
  • We will increase the output of Hull repairs, Rigging Repairs, and Rum x10
  • We will reduce all skillbook and upgrade bp prices by 1/2
  • We will increase trading resource output x3 but trading goods will be dependant on what faction owns the port
  • We will increase the rate of rare woods generation and the ports that generate them x2
  • We will have at least 5 ports that generate all mod resources and increase generation rate x2
• ROE changes
  • All battles will now be open until they finish including port battles
  • In addition to a tag circle on the enemy there is also another "big circle" the size of a port battle exterior circle on top of it(br taken into account in the regular circle)
  • When a battle occurs players within the "big circle" have a choice to join the battle and thier side. If they do they are placed at a start point of when the battle initially started.
  • Each minute the battle is open the area from which a player could join increases until it's at the maximum distance(Maximum distance is at 5 minutes)
  • The circle to join outside of is cut in half. One half facing the defender's side and the other half facing the attacker's
  • 30s Super speed will only be given to defenders of OW battles in the intitial battle
  • 30s Invisibility will be given to anyone exiting a mission, open world battle, port battle, or epic event
• Other Changes
  • Addition of new dock space will be lowered to 1/10
  • Teleports will be allowed to Free Towns with a 6 hour cool down taking up your tp to port cooldown
  • The xp system for ship specific slots will be eliminated
  • Xp requirements for rank will be cut back 20%
  • Rear cannons will revert to regular accuracy
  • Rvr missions accessible to compensate for lack of NPCs but only  within the 5 closest ports of the "friendly" port  taken from
  • Rvr missions are how you generate hostility now
  • No more warships on the OW
  • Forts will be moved back 50% effectiveness
  • All skill books will be available in the admiralty some at high prices
  • AI drop chance of rare skill books will increase x5 and be available from pvp encounters
  • Pvp rewards x4
  • A tutorial will be included to help new players progress
  • Rewards are gained off damage done in addition to kills and assists

1 hour ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

RVR missions should be the main way of generating hostility

Added. Please, if any one else would like to see anything different on the next patch that is an "easy fix" or has any problems with what's up here please say something. Thanks.

[fox2run]

Please take the word "RvR" out and replace it with multiplayer. 

Then it's not for 10% only.

[jodgi]

1 hour ago, Quineloe said:

Who said that?

You.

I made a post about traders.

____

About newbie help:

I want to take away most ,if not all, grind combat bonuses veterans enjoy over newer players. We still have a long way to go.

[Quineloe]

 

1 hour ago, Bart Smith said:

System damage=gold from fight seems ok as well. We can walk away but think about expenses so after all you get half of this i bet.

The funniest part about this is, rewards for PVE combat have actually been increased with the BR based reward for solo players in 10.0 . Way back when you got damage and a flat kill bonus, you got roughly 85% of the gold for a fifth rate NPC - I dug through  my screenshots and managed to find some numbers to compare. So no, PVE rewards were not toned down at all in 10.0 compared to Spring/Summer 2016.

 

9 minutes ago, jodgi said:

You.

I made a post about traders.

Strawman. Newbies sail fifth rates.

 

1 hour ago, George Washington said:

PvE content will. I think this game is overall complete, the last step is focus on PvE! and all will go well. People are bored and tired. 

be careful, you suggest PVE content to *that* guy, all you get in response is "play PVE server"

[George Washington]

4 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

be careful, you suggest PVE content to *that* guy, all you get in response is "play PVE server"

Come on, he must understand with 150 pvp players online you can't say play on PvE server.  We need every available soul. 

Edited August 23, 2017 by George Washington

[Skully]

2 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

• Economy tuning

Mostly a spreadsheet exercise. It's hard for me to see the effect until they are actually implemented. (Kind off a catch-22, I need to do a similar exercise as the devs. )

2 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

• We will increase trading resource output x3 but trading goods will be dependant on what faction owns the port

This is creating a bigger money faucet. Do we really need one?

2 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

• ROE changes
  • All battles will now be open until they finish including port battles

None starter: http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/22257-battles-open-forever-can-it-be-made-to-work/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-456721

2 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

• In addition to a tag circle on the enemy there is also another "big circle" the size of a port battle exterior circle on top of it(br taken into account in the regular circle)
• When a battle occurs players within the "big circle" have a choice to join the battle and thier side. If they do they are placed at a start point of when the battle initially started.
• Each minute the battle is open the area from which a player could join increases until it's at the maximum distance(Maximum distance is at 5 minutes)
• The circle to join outside of is cut in half. One half facing the defender's side and the other half facing the attacker's
• 30s Super speed will only be given to defenders of OW battles in the intitial battle
• 30s Invisibility will be given to anyone exiting a mission, open world battle, port battle, or epic event

I still think something has to change on RoE. The double circles is the best of all we have had so far because of simplicity and predictability.

The above can be abused because of misunderstanding and the game not doing what you intent to do.

• big circle => drags in the wrong folks
• growing circle => players might miss the cut
• facing half circle (and this also affects double circle) => spawn on land
• super speed (no matter which party) => abuse
• invisibility => fog of war problem (which is trumped by organisation)

To counter it all I wrote up http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/14789-faul-battle-entry-timer-be-gone-with-thou/ which has an infinite open battle with a growing circle.

Something not for this patch.

2 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

• Other Changes
  • Addition of new dock space will be lowered to 1/10

Why?

2 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

• Rvr missions accessible to compensate for lack of NPCs but only  within the 5 closest ports of the "friendly" port  taken from

This runs into trouble with the 11 fronts (/ time slots). Each Nation should be capable of opening up a front in the appropriate time slot. This was the original reason Free Towns exist (need to find the reference back). People are way too attached to their (uninhabited) backyards (except for care bears) and really need to let go. Care bears need to go to the rookie zone, little impact on Conquest Competition and no more bragging rights.

2 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

• AI drop chance of rare skill books will increase x5 and be available from pvp encounters
• Pvp rewards x4
• A tutorial will be included to help new players progress
• Rewards are gained off damage done in addition to kills and assists

Rewards need to be revisited. Stating PvP x4 equals inflation. At the very least we need to agree on rewarding content providers (even if it is just 2500g) and skill.

Tutorial goes without saying, but not yet. A cheap intermittent solution could be: http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/22193-new-player-missions/?tab=comments#comment-455263

Edited August 23, 2017 by Skully
removed empty space, weird editor

[Skully]

6 minutes ago, fox2run said:

Please take the word "RvR" out and replace it with multiplayer. 

Then it's not for 10% only.

Fundamental problem: we have no shows and opposing time slots. How do we fill the quiet period?

[admin]

1 minute ago, George Washington said:

Come on, he must understand with 150 pvp players online you can't say play on PvE server. 

guys

if you want your feedback to be read FOCUS on the main post and things listed in the main post. 
Otherwise we see no point bringing up issues to the discussion as it seems community does not help some captains to understand the difference between feedback and shitposting.

[George Washington]

5 minutes ago, admin said:

guys

if you want your feedback to be read FOCUS on the main post and things listed in the main post. 
Otherwise we see no point bringing up issues to the discussion as it seems community does not help some captains to understand the difference between feedback and shitposting.

My apologies. too many trolls. 

[Duncan McFail]

2 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

• Economy tuning

Mostly a spreadsheet exercise. It's hard for me to see the effect until they are actually implemented. (Kind off a catch-22, I need to do a similar exercise as the devs.  ) Pretty sure this will take us into a better priced ship replacement without making it too easy.

  2 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

• We will increase trading resource output x3 but trading goods will be dependant on what faction owns the port

This is creating a bigger money faucet. Do we really need one? Some do. The number of people that show up at La Tortue expecting to buy stuff to make money on but it's all gone is crazy. Either way it puts more players in the OW. If a faction owns all ports around they have to trade the goods to a non faction port which equals even more fun.

  2 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

• ROE changes
  • All battles will now be open until they finish including port battles

None starter: http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/22257-battles-open-forever-can-it-be-made-to-work/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-456721 With a better join system it might gain appeal.

  2 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

• In addition to a tag circle on the enemy there is also another "big circle" the size of a port battle exterior circle on top of it(br taken into account in the regular circle)
• When a battle occurs players within the "big circle" have a choice to join the battle and thier side. If they do they are placed at a start point of when the battle initially started.
• Each minute the battle is open the area from which a player could join increases until it's at the maximum distance(Maximum distance is at 5 minutes)
• The circle to join outside of is cut in half. One half facing the defender's side and the other half facing the attacker's
• 30s Super speed will only be given to defenders of OW battles in the intitial battle
• 30s Invisibility will be given to anyone exiting a mission, open world battle, port battle, or epic event

I still think something has to change on RoE. The double circles is the best of all we have had so far because of simplicity and predictability.

The above can be abused because of misunderstanding and the game not doing what you intent to do.

• big circle => drags in the wrong folks
• growing circle => players might miss the cut
• facing half circle (and this also affects double circle) => spawn on land
• super speed (no matter which party) => abuse
• invisibility => fog of war problem (which is trumped by organisation)

To counter it all I wrote up http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/14789-faul-battle-entry-timer-be-gone-with-thou/ which has an infinite open battle with a growing circle.

Something not for this patch.

Little circle drags folks in. Big circle gives an option to join. Growing circle pushes late comers far away. Half circle join area is a lot harder to stick into the land than the current system. Although the double circle would have less drawbacks without the massive AI fleets before.

  2 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

• Other Changes
  • Addition of new dock space will be lowered to 1/10

Why? Way too expensive for dock space. I have several guys that can't have more ships. Remember we have a 1st rate in every lineship port which means 5 slots locked just to 1st rates.

  2 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

• Rvr missions accessible to compensate for lack of NPCs but only  within the 5 closest ports of the "friendly" port  taken from

This runs into trouble with the 11 fronts (/ time slots). Each Nation should be capable of opening up a front in the appropriate time slot. This was the original reason Free Towns exist (need to find the reference back). People are way too attached to their (uninhabited) backyards (except for care bears) and really need to let go. Care bears need to go to the rookie zone, little impact on Conquest Competition and no more bragging rights. This is just to add an easier way to grind ports. The system is already on test bed. Just a place holder for a better rvr system. Everything here except the new join area system for battles is amd the tutorial is a quick fix that could be done in a few days.

  2 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

• AI drop chance of rare skill books will increase x5 and be available from pvp encounters
• Pvp rewards x4
• A tutorial will be included to help new players progress
• Rewards are gained off damage done in addition to kills and assists

Rewards need to be revisited. Stating PvP x4 equals inflation. At the very least we need to agree on rewarding content providers (even if it is just 2500g) and skill.

Tutorial goes without saying, but not yet. A cheap intermittent solution could be: http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/22193-new-player-missions/?tab=comments#comment-455263

Pvp x4 could equal inflation. Unfortunately only if alts are involved. The rewards from not actually killing a player is there from your suggestion as are most of these "notes". If players want certain things fixed we have limited time to suggest it to admin before their team works on clan wars.

[Red Dragon 13]

On 21/8/2017 at 6:20 PM, admin said:

• • • Pirates hard

All in all It looks quiet good including your addition in page 15, if you devs could make Pirates VERY HARD, WITH UNCONQUERABLE HAVENS IN CENTRAL SHALLOW WATERS AND LEVEL 1 SHIPYARDS ONLY. NO PORT CONQUEST ALLOWED EXCEPT FOR SHALLOW WATERS PORTS. If they capture bigger ships they can enter Free and Neutral towns (unless prohibited by owner clan).

[Skully]

51 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

Some do. The number of people that show up at La Tortue expecting to buy stuff to make money on but it's all gone is crazy. Either way it puts more players in the OW. If a faction owns all ports around they have to trade the goods to a non faction port which equals even more fun.

I can imagine some want it, but do we need it. Rather what we need is being able to put up a contract for everything. Than if people really want to buy it, they can by paying a good price. (Bring in the complaining cheapskates please.)

Note that ultimately I don't mind and this is not dependent on the patch itself. It's just a change in the item templates.

I am not saying this to deny opportunity, I'm saying this because I need to have a challenge to become filthy rich (again). 

51 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

With a better join system it might gain appeal.

51 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

Little circle drags folks in. Big circle gives an option to join. Growing circle pushes late comers far away. Half circle join area is a lot harder to stick into the land than the current system. Although the double circle would have less drawbacks without the massive AI fleets before.

This is http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/14789-faul-battle-entry-timer-be-gone-with-thou/, we have been there with @admin. I think it would be a great addition, but you do not need to convince me.

51 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

• Price of addition of new dock space will be lowered to 1/10

Fixed it for you, yes I agree. Getting the right ship in action must not impose an unreasonable opportunity cost (in terms of real time / effort).

I know @The Red Duke opposes this, but his play style is centered around being a captain, not being a Mister Smith avatar.

51 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

This is just to add an easier way to grind ports. The system is already on test bed. Just a place holder for a better rvr system.

My first usage brought about a bug.  Yes it is just a place holder, because it still presents a PvE barrier that has many potential exploits. (We are still at a stalemate with @admin here. )

Note that my statement was due to distance versus available time slot fronts.

51 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

the tutorial is a quick fix that could be done in a few days.

I think we've offered different options to boot up a starting player. The actual cost is up to @admin, so whatever he sees fit to put as long as the starting player sees some form of improvement here.

51 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

Pvp x4 could equal inflation. Unfortunately only if alts are involved. The rewards from not actually killing a player is there from your suggestion as are most of these "notes". If players want certain things fixed we have limited time to suggest it to admin before their team works on clan wars.

The reward for dying (sailing and showing up to fight) is not in. Neither is the zero-sum. I definitely need to put this up as a top post and get it down quickly. (Picture rewards similar to how it shows in World of Warships. (Oh crap did I just sprout an obscenity... ) Everybody gets something, winners just more.)

Edited August 23, 2017 by Skully

[Sella]

On 22/8/2017 at 0:20 AM, admin said:

 

• Clans will be able to set controllable city neutral or national
  • If maintenance is not paid the city will turn back to neutral

 

 

Aren't those two a bit conflicting? I mean what will be the point of paying maintenance then. Do you lose control completely when maintenance costs are not paid?

[Quineloe]

I wonder if you can just capture a port and set it to your nation without having it stuck to you, draining maintenance cost. e.g. SLRN captures a port, but doesn't want to manage it so they can set it to "neutral British".

[Skully]

@Duncan McFail and all, as promised: 

 

[Hethwill]

1 hour ago, Skully said:

I know @The Red Duke opposes this, but his play style is centered around being a captain, not being a Mister Smith avatar.

Thank for the mention and the correct minimalist assessment. I play a character, or try to, and not powerplay as myself. But it is my gaming culture. Blame too much table and paper and great groups and clubs.

The path from being a duckling to have a slight idea of how a ship works in NA, in my case, was always by setting realistic objectives. I think newcomers get easily overwhelmed with a lot of information and total freedom and feel "lost" about what is possible. The easiest route is to fight the environment to finally captain a Victory. As simple as that. Linear and plain fair. Everything good.

Let's be minimalist and make a scenario of 25v25, where there is multiple types of ships and multiple types of objectives and a mix of newcomers and veterans. Not all 25 in a team will play the same way.

What happens in that minimalist scenario is, a portion of veterans will expect the newcomers to act like they know what they are doing... *sigh*... they will kill a lot of potential.

What also happens in that minimalist scenario is, a portion newcomers will focus on the large scale battle instead of focusing on realistic objectives in their local tactical situation... *shrugs*.. they will feel lost fast.

Then we have the portion veterans that provide the other portion of newcomers some guidelines, given the ships they use, what they can *realistically* achieve in that scenario. They'll probably ask them ( ending with a please ) to bring their schooner to a scout position or setup their light frigate as a picket delay action until the veteran ships of the line get in position.

Open World simply translates a minimal scale of 25v25 into "unknown" quantity in a bigger scenario. Plenty of playstyles and all contribute to age of sail west indies simulation.

If what takes for the new players to set their own "local tactical situation" objectives is this entire renewal of the open world... 

... we are here to test.

 

[Skully]

11 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

They'll probably ask them ( ending with a please ) to bring their schooner to a scout position or setup their light frigate as a picket delay action until the veteran ships of the line get in position.

Open World simply translates a minimal scale of 25v25 into "unknown" quantity in a bigger scenario.

Yet we took away that scenario, or at least made it even more impossible to execute.

Yes, I am the master of troll tags, but does that mean we should take away the ability of a young captain to smash his ship onto a greater foe? @koltes, what do you think?

[Captain Lust]

2 hours ago, Red Dragon 13 said:

All in all It looks quiet good including your addition in page 15, if you devs could make Pirates VERY HARD, WITH UNCONQUERABLE HAVENS IN CENTRAL SHALLOW WATERS AND LEVEL 1 SHIPYARDS ONLY. NO PORT CONQUEST ALLOWED EXCEPT FOR SHALLOW WATERS PORTS. If they capture bigger ships they can enter Free and Neutral towns (unless prohibited by owner clan).

This could work if we had more shallow port regions like bahamas. Also you would have to give 1-2 really good shallow ships exclusive to them or something else unless you want nobody to play pirates.

[Quineloe]

Speaking of European traders and Shop NPC - can we have Rig repairs available in *all* ports? Nothing like "oh boy, game over tonight, I'm out of repairs"

[Teutonic]

I'm not sure how this will bring more players to play NA, but after talking to other players...I can see these changes keeping players that currently play, playing. (if you know what I mean)

I'll test it when the patch hits

[Skully]

3 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

Speaking of European traders and Shop NPC - can we have Rig repairs available in *all* ports? Nothing like "oh boy, game over tonight, I'm out of repairs"

Buy resources of European traders, craft. Done.

[Simon Cadete]

Duncan I agree with everything you suggested. The only thing I think still needs to be done is the map size a lot smaller and less ports. We should be able to sail from one end of the map to the other in about an hour. Make it bigger as population grows.

One quick suggestion to the developers: show on the map where the hot zone for the day/week is and make selling goods there 3x more everywhere else.

[Quineloe]

26 minutes ago, Skully said:

Buy resources of European traders, craft. Done.

Can't craft without an outpost.

[Skully]

8 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

Can't craft without an outpost.

You really want to walk down the entire path?

Why does a skilled captain in logistics have enough repairs at hand?