Seasoned Woods poll

[admin]

14 minutes ago, Snoopy said:

but I fear you are going to add layers on top rather than rebalance and escalate player time sinks to attain the top. .

 

Thats exactly what we are doing. Layers on top

As we found by trial and error - DO NOT TOUCH WHAT PLAYERS ALREADY HAVE. It does not work - we tried twice.
So expect very very expensive historical 68lb carronades HMS Glatton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Glatton_(1795)  refit  and 42lb light Rainbow refits - which wont be available by organized clicking on building buttons. 

[Snoopy]

I'll rephrase: Layers on top in terms of new mechanics = ok in my book, perhaps you can concoct something fun.

But the overall grind needs to come down for old stuff to keep the time requirement stable.. otherwise you have a tiny minority of people on the server sailing Glatton/X..  which makes the time you have to invest to code a feature/ship model that only ever a handful of people will see less efficient.

There is a danger you trap yourself in that power creep.

The first hardcore crafting revamp (fine woods) did cost a lot of players, myself included.
Hardcore MMO progress just isn't fun long term.. which is why it has gone out of fashion in games.

I beg of you don't crank the grind up too much.

[vazco]

5 hours ago, admin said:

Thats why seasoning is amazing (well maybe not amazing but a great first step to giving more power for individual effort).

• It reduces the power of logging in and clicking (ridiculously expensive click for seasoned woods) - you cant ask just 25 players to login and click as it is STILL too expensive
• increases power to sailing and fighting (free seasoned woods from chests for effort per player) - you can sail and sink privateers and get the woods for free

 2-3 haters who say seasoned woods are the push to sell more DLC are just blind - as you can get seasoned woods in game FOR FREE as free drop from fleets. 

I believe you believe it, however there's one more effect seasoned woods have:

• they increase the power of DLC's, as by logging in every day and clicking to break up yous ships, on average you can get the same amount, or more of GOOD seasoned wood of your choosing, as from sailing and crafting

The effect - people with DLC's have the advantage, and clans of people with DLC have even more advantage. You should remove drops of S wood from breaking DLC ships, then game will stop being "pay to win".

Edited December 8, 2019 by vazco

[Yettie]

5 minutes ago, vazco said:

• they increase the power of DLC's, as by logging in every day and breaking up yous ships, on average you can get the same amount of GOOD seasoned wood of your choosing, as from sailing, or clicling

I’ve been breaking Teak(S)/Teak(S) ships for the 4 day and received only 54 woods. I have all DLC ships. I'm tired. I won’t do it anymore.

[vazco]

Just now, Yettie said:

I’ve been breaking Teak(S)/Teak(S) ships for the 4 day and received only 54 woods. I have all DLC ships. I'm tired. I won’t do it anymore.

Good It gives us an advantage over you, as we had better success rate as a whole clan.

Big numbers reduce the luck factor.

[Malcolm3]

4 minutes ago, Yettie said:

I’ve been breaking Teak(S)/Teak(S) ships for the 4 day and received only 54 woods. I have all DLC ships. I'm tired. I won’t do it anymore.

Pure (un)luck. In a week after introducing Seasoned Woods I have around 150-200 Fir(S), 50 Teak(S), some Bermuda(S) and White Oak(S) purely from DLC and Admiralty ships (Admiralty are selling some ships built from Seasoned Wood sometimes). And I have just 2 DLC ships
 

[vazco]

18 minutes ago, Malcolm3 said:

Pure (un)luck. In a week after introducing Seasoned Woods I have around 150-200 Fir(S), 50 Teak(S), some Bermuda(S) and White Oak(S) purely from DLC and Admiralty ships (Admiralty are selling some ships built from Seasoned Wood sometimes). And I have just 2 DLC ships
 

As a clan we have ~3000 S white oak from breaking up DLC ships, and ~3000 S from hunting privateer ships. That's about it when it comes to stats.

 

The second was only possible because we found a way to do privateer missions alone. In case of a less skilled people, or those who don't want to risk, we do them in groups of two.

[Custard]

23 minutes ago, vazco said:

As a clan we have ~3000 S white oak from breaking up DLC ships, and ~3000 S from hunting privateer ships. That's about it when it comes to stats.

 

The second was only possible because we found a way to do privateer missions alone. In case of a less skilled people, or those who don't want to risk, we do them in groups of two.

Privateer fleets? Successfully alone? Bloody hell 👍

I thought I was good at PVE 

[Sir Texas Sir]

10 hours ago, Custard said:

Privateer fleets? Successfully alone? Bloody hell 👍

I thought I was good at PVE 

Kinda want to see this in video.  I bet they use up the whole clock and spread them out big time?

[Simon Cadete]

Because 8 guys who have no life and play naval action way more than its healthy can do it, doesn’t mean the rest of the player base has to deal with it

[admin]

3 minutes ago, Simon Cadete said:

Because 8 guys who have no life and play naval action way more than its healthy can do it, doesn’t mean the rest of the player base has to deal with it

This casual vs no life card has been overused so much - it does not work anymore here. 
The battle lasts 1h 30 mins for EVERYONE. If you are casual or no lifer. If someone can do it you can do it. 

ps.. having said that i cant still beat the final exam record and demasting record 

 

[Potemkin]

fireship detonations make wood type in general irrelevant (and individual skill, tactics, and overall strategy) anyway, so whats the big deal?

[Sea Archer]

I dislike the seasoned woods as they will enlarge the gap between the casual and the full time players further.

What we need in this game are equal ships, no mods or such stuff. Maybe slightly improved stats with a trained crew (which has to be kept alive, else the bonus dies with the crew).

No one should sail "super ships", that will win a battle due to their superior stats, when the captain's skills are equal.

[van Veen]

10 hours ago, admin said:

This casual vs no life card has been overused so much - it does not work anymore here. 
The battle lasts 1h 30 mins for EVERYONE. If you are casual or no lifer. If someone can do it you can do it. 

ps.. having said that i cant still beat the final exam record and demasting record 

 

Perhaps it's "overused" for a reason? Maybe the concerns are still the same?

More layers are ok. But please stop adding more layers of gear and bonus. It throws the game out of balance even more.

We do not need more loot drop mechanics. The loot drop is unrealistic and that alienates people. It is perceived as "hard grind", because it does not make any sense. The only purpose for this features is the loot. This is illogic. It feels wrong, dull and gets boring quickly. Give things a purpose and it will be perceived differently. 

The seasoned woods are a prime example of illogics. 

• Why do seasoned woods drop from "privateer fleets"
• Why are the stats of seasoned woods so incredibly better, where is the balance?
• Why are these privateer fleets only at certain locations? 
• Why do these privateers have agreesive AI?
• Why do these privateers have insane open world speed bonus?
• Why do privateers drop permits for sheds?
• Why do players need a permit for a shed building, but none for an academy or a shipyard?
• Why does putting woods into a shed cost so many doubloons, whereas building a complete 5th rate costs zero? 
• What do privateers have to do with seasoning woods in the first place? 

If I could find answers to 50% of these questions, I'd buy it as "yea, makes sense somehow". Perhaps I am the only one, but to me it is important that what you do in a game makes sense. I mean, I can accept magic if magic is part of the game. But it's not in NA. Therefore, I have serious troubles with Loki runes in a game that claims to be "realistic" and "hardcore". To me, the Loki is just a trolling thing. It deceives players. The opponent you are fighting is not the one you think it is. Deceiving players is the worst idea you could have in my point of view. 

The open world speed boost points are not better. They create situations in which one player has a great advantage over another one in the same spot. Why is a wind boost timer bound? Why does it continue to work even when you are far away from the strong wind zone? Illogic. 

It seems that newly implemented features drift further and further away from logic. In the past, there have been new features that actually made sense somehow. Sunken fleet for instance. Player port raids are also understandable. Please do not lose touch of your game scenario. 

Perhaps seasoned woods can actually be carried by ships. For instance, every now and then there is a supply fleet to supply building materials from Europe to the shipyards in the Caribbean. Then, you could let them sail through the caribbean and players could try and catch it? I'd buy that. The sheds are still illogic, so they'd have to be removed altogether or given away for free without permit. 

[Angus MacDuff]

13 hours ago, admin said:

This casual vs no life card has been overused so much - it does not work anymore here. 
The battle lasts 1h 30 mins for EVERYONE. If you are casual or no lifer. If someone can do it you can do it. 

I am neither of those (I get a few hours per working day and somewhat more on weekends).  It's not that I CAN'T do it, although I don't really practice mass AI destruction.  It's that I don't WANT to fight AI Fleets.  If I wanted to fight AI fleets, I would live on the Peace server.  Those guys have made destroying multiple 1st Rates in a row boat into an art form.  The problem is, that it is becoming compulsory to fight AI on the War server.  I feel that this is an unnatural culture change on the PVP side with AI attacking players (OW or AI PB).  Soon, everyone will have their Seasoning sheds (the price is dropping) and then the roving AI fleets will just be a nuisance. Noobs can be protected by increasing the size of the Capitol zones.

[Durin]

btw, although i crafted a few seasoned wood ships by now, i did not yet sail any, since i did not get the variants i wanted (very fast/ 4/5 or better). i was not willing to burn a set of elite mods on "standard" seasoned ships. should i loose some of my normal ships, i might do that to replace them. it might take some time tho untill you get a seasoned wood build thats actually better then your normal ships, considering upgrade slots and special trim. and it is soooo expensive to build them, you really have to get lucky since you cant simply roll and roll out builds until you get something worthwhile (at least i cant afford that)

this is just to show that even if you have access to seasoned wood, it doesnt mean you are sailing better ships ;D

[HachiRoku]

19 hours ago, admin said:

ps.. having said that i cant still beat the final exam record and demasting record 

 

its because players know the game better than developers :p

This is one of the best videos ive seen in a long time. The real time reaction of a 2 devs watching players "abuse" the game. 

Can you tell us a secret please??? What was the most extreme case of players in naval action abusing a system you did not expect after implementing it? 

 

 

[Holm Hansen]

On 12/8/2019 at 5:43 AM, admin said:

...

- as you can get seasoned woods in game FOR FREE as free drop from fleets.

However, not everyone enjoy the given choice to either sail around the whole days in groups of 1rst rates, or build ships which are from the beginning of inferior material.
There are a lot of players who prefer to sail in smaller ships. And that maybe not in large groups.
(due the "farm"-style, it has a different dimension than for RvR matters from time to time sail in a 1st rate)

By this way, we are again forced to do something over a long time, what we perhaps not like to do. Not just the best way in a game ....

Edited December 10, 2019 by Holm Hansen

[Atimk]

What about making seasoned woods, ya know, seasond?

You can put the wood in the shed for let's say a week and after that you can take it out seasoned. If you want it faster you can pay extra labor and material.
Then you're just playing with limits. How much wood you can put in? What would be the ideal recovery time vs the price? Etc.

[erelkivtuadrater]

20 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

Can you tell us a secret please??? What was the most extreme case of players in naval action abusing a system you did not expect after implementing it? 

my guess is gonna be that spanish guy that abused the trade system to have basically unlimited of gold before he got stripped of them and the server was wiped  

[Angus MacDuff]

9 hours ago, Holm Hansen said:

There are a lot of players who prefer to sail in smaller ships. And that maybe not in large groups

That's me.  The price on the seasoning shed will eventually come down though, and with the good trading you can do, I have plenty of money.

[Holm Hansen]

Yes, maybe it is possible that a wider range of players will have access to these woods

But what happens after that? When we encounter these ships in higher quantities?

Additional bonuses was never been here for a long time, mostly they were compensated later by the changes of another value, the refits or books or even basic values. Here i can, for example, well imagine that as compensation for increased thickness, someday the penetration of the cannons will be increased.
Then finally, these ships, made of the new materials are just as the ships from the generic woods are currently. But the ships build from generic woods are after these changes worse than now.

Finally, what remains is a barely manageable number of wood combinations (is see it already in the crafting menu), an additionally required building, additional warehouse slots for semi-materials and an increased difficulty level for players who have no access to these new materials ... especially new players

... maybe i only see it as black, but I can imagine that it will go in that way, in a long term

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Holm Hansen

[Nooop]

On 12/7/2019 at 8:43 PM, admin said:

cost growth 3x - power growth 19x

But what about removing fleet limit? What if it was 3 vs 1 instead of 1 vs 1?

[Bubba Smith]

I really like the seasoned woods upgrades, it gives bored crafters something to aspire to; making superior ships. I voted to keep it in but make the blue prints a little easier to obtain and including the shed. I say, lets give it a chance. 

 

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Bubba Smith said:

I really like the seasoned woods upgrades, it gives bored crafters something to aspire to; making superior ships. I voted to keep it in but make the blue prints a little easier to obtain and including the shed. I say, lets give it a chance. 

 

 

Which I think was the point, more end game content for the bored end game players. I am in disagreement however, I still feel this was a bad move but the Admin has already decreed that there will be no changes made to this update despite the overwhelming negative reaction to it, so whats the point in arguing?