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Naval insurance comes to the Caribbean

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1 hour ago, qw569 said:

sorry @admin but insurance is like fake feature.

Insurance will operate with base price of resources.

For example white oak log will cost 112 but average price in the shop is 2875.

No  need Insurance just decrease amount of resources for building ship.

 

that is more of an economic problem that needs to be tackled with a new economy patch

if you look at jita you will see you can buy and sell with a difference of 1 isk (and thats nothing )

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7 minutes ago, springby said:

Nice feat., thanks!

To all the ones who also want to insure their mods: Please...

 

well, the whole ship is insured so the mods to I think !!

i am not sure mods are included in the total worth of a fully fitted ship.

and if not perhaps the option to ensure the mods to,  in the total insurance price

perhaps the dev can tell us more about that

Edited by Thonys

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13 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

You could increase the XP rewards to increase incentives to go out and fight and offer a real alternative to the much hated PvE slot grinding.

I do not think XP rewards is the problem preventing people going out to PvP, the perceived lack of competitiveness due to not having all slots open or not having the super rare upgrades is more of an issue. Maybe you mean faster slot grinding through PvP. After all there are not many people who level up purely on PvP. Extra XP would only make reaching maximum rank quicker. 

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3 minutes ago, Thonys said:

well, the whole ship is insured so the mods to I think !!

i am not sure mods are included in the total worth of a fully fitted ship.

and if not perhaps the option to ensure the mods to,  in the total insurance price

perhaps the dev can tell us more about that

It's only the ship without everything else

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35 minutes ago, admin said:

Automatic crafted ship insurance is not only about the money but about the reducing the loss and changing the reward system, which is one of the goals for the insurance.

Here is the practical example.

Assume there are only 2 players.
Player 1 loses in 10 from 11 battles. Player 2 wins in 10 from 11 battles
Cost to build the ship is 300k and reward is 300k (150k*2 pvp bonus) + pvp marks and combat marks. 
Rewards were always increased during early access because they were supposed to increase incentives to go out and fight, but this was a mistake. 

Here is what happens now..

  • Player 2 sinks 10 ships, earns 3,000 (3mln) + marks. This 3 mln increase price pressure in the market and is increasing the recovery cost for the Player 1.  
  • Player 1 loses 10 ships, recovery cost is 3,000k (3 mln). He loses more and more every time and can only recover by PVE. Grind also brings money into the game, generating even higher prices. Grind is forced onto the average player until he can acquire skill + inflation goes up and up. Grinding is not giving the player 1 required skills = wastes his time.

So the obvious benefits are

  1. Insurance allows to restructure rewards to the appropriate historical levels which removes the inflationary pressures, and reduces recovery loss, loss is less painful because you are not forced to regrind. 
  2. Gear fear is lowered and cost of loss is minimal (especially if Player 1 crafts the ships). Grind is not forced on those who dont want to pve but cannot yet win consistently.
  3. Crafted ships start to matter more.



 

Put this way, it makes sense thing is, you make mistake thinking that casuals loose their time "grinding". Its the main feature of casual player gameplay. He jumps to PvP whenever he feels confident (or bored of PvE) enough and no fear of loosing assets is only secondary on his list (if not even further down the list). 

1. Restructure rewards argument works for me but like I pointed out, "regrind" is not a probem in many casuals cases as its their usual way to play the game.

2. Agreed but fear of gear loss is not the main reason for casuals not to participate in PvP.

3. Thats a good and vaild point.

 

32 minutes ago, jodgi said:

How does it make it more complicated? It seems automatic and simple to me.

How can insurance cash when people fight it out and sink do any harm?

If you're right... Still no harm done...or?

It means that you need to explain people why for example sinking pays you insurance while being boarded not. The instruction to the game is taking more and more pages with features that are not completely understandable ( for example not many people know why you cant use deck guns boarding in your Hercules against quite often bigger ship). You may think that its not important the more features like that and the harder to comprehend game becomes and its not about mastering your in game skill.

I'm afraid that the insurance money will be mostly used by hardcore players and casuals for which this feature is supposedly planned wont use it as often. But maybe I'm wrong seeing Admin's point 2 and 3.

28 minutes ago, Thonys said:

every + development feature will help the game, it is not that difficult to understand

the more the better

Developement of bad features takes time and money. Better to find and discuss possibly broken feature before it is implemented to the game. Also check my answer to Jodgi.

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20 minutes ago, z4ys said:

But as king of crown wrote. Some players prefer the salt over rewards. I see great potential in this change to grief other players because it's the enemy who decided about your reward.

I doubt very much that many players are going to forgo the PvP marks just to generate salt by denying a player insurance payout on the basic ship. To do this they would need to have a fleet perk and take the risk of getting the captured ship back to port, seems like a lot of effort just to generate some salt.

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5 minutes ago, SirAlatriste said:

I think this is not historical, but this is a small thing with pros.

well sometimes shipping company's deliberate sink ships especially when it was an old ship (oneedin line series) (just saying) 

just to collect the insurance money

Edited by Thonys

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7 minutes ago, Archaos said:

I doubt very much that many players are going to forgo the PvP marks just to generate salt by denying a player insurance payout on the basic ship. To do this they would need to have a fleet perk and take the risk of getting the captured ship back to port, seems like a lot of effort just to generate some salt.

Don't forget pvp marks are about to leave the game and will converted to an other currency.

Don't forget the new mission that may say: "go out capture ship xy and bring it back to Admiralty"

If new currency is physical and you have to sail it back as well why not take the ship When you lose a crafted ship it's insured and you get the insurance regardless if you get counterganked or not.

You can even do green on green so you get insurance while enemies would try to capture for the reward.

Edited by z4ys

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4 minutes ago, SirAlatriste said:

I think this is not historical, but this is a small thing with pros.

Actually ships where insured cause most of them didn’t get paid off from the investor until years and years later.  Not to mention this is a game.

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2 minutes ago, Borch said:

Put this way, it makes sense thing is, you make mistake thinking that casuals loose their time "grinding". Its the main feature of casual player gameplay.

There are multiple player personalities and the group you think you are describing will gain nothing from insurance. Also we have stated quite a while ago that players who do not chose pve server in a full loot pvp game cannot be called casual players. The fact of logging in to a full loot pvp server even to pve makes them hardcore players. No wiggling is possible around this fact. 

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Automatic crafted ship insurance is not only about the money but about the reducing the loss and changing the reward system, which is one of the goals for the insurance.

Here is the practical example.

Assume there are only 2 players.
Player 1 loses in 10 from 11 battles. Player 2 wins in 10 from 11 battles
Cost to build the ship is 300k and reward is 300k (150k*2 pvp bonus) + pvp marks and combat marks. 
Rewards were always increased during early access because they were supposed to increase incentives to go out and fight, but this was a mistake. 

Here is what happens now..

  • Player 2 sinks 10 ships, earns 3,000 (3mln) + marks. This 3 mln increase price pressure in the market and is increasing the recovery cost for the Player 1.  
  • Player 1 loses 10 ships, recovery cost is 3,000k (3 mln). He loses more and more every time and can only recover by PVE. Grind also brings money into the game, generating even higher prices. Grind is forced onto the average player until he can acquire skill + inflation goes up and up. Grinding is not giving the player 1 required skills = wastes his time.

So the obvious benefits are

  1. Insurance allows to restructure rewards to the appropriate historical levels which removes the inflationary pressures, and reduces recovery loss, loss is less painful because you are not forced to regrind. 
  2. Gear fear is lowered and cost of loss is minimal (especially if Player 1 crafts the ships). Grind is not forced on those who dont want to pve but cannot yet win consistently.
  3. Crafted ships start to matter more.



 

Although I agree with the insurance system I would just like to point out that the average player will loose no matter what. The Game is not skill based. 5/5 ships aggravates an already existing advantage to the skilled player which the average player will be unable to compensate for. Especially since the 5/5 ships tends to gravitate to the most active PvP'ers and they' unlike the average player, can afford both the ship and the best modules.. There's no skill in a decent PvP'er in a 5/5 ship coming up against a noob in a 3/5 ship.. This certainty of the outcome, more than anything prevents the average player from enjoying PvP..

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There's no mechanic in the world in any game that can "fight" a player knowing how to play the game. ( do not read "gaming the game" )

It could be all Grey 0/5 ships for all. It would make no difference. The player that learned to "master" the ship, wind, gunnery, etc will ALWAYS have a upper hand against a guy that just arrived.

Will be true in checkers and in NA.

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At worst is makes it so the loser doesn't lose everything. At best you never have to get insurance because you didn't sink.

This will certainly help new players as well as players who struggle to get gold or those who don't have a lot of time. 

If i am losing a ship worth 500k in resources but getting 400k in insurance, i am only losing 100k investment and that means i don't have to grind much at all to get that back. This is a good change.

 

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Also we have stated quite a while ago that players who do not chose pve server in a full loot pvp game cannot be called casual players. The fact of logging in to a full loot pvp server even to pve makes them hardcore players. No wiggling is possible around this fact. 

Can you still remember austerity patch. Those who survived were your hardcores, the rest were casuals. This is no wiggling. Simply stating something wont bend reality and makes all players hardcore.

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4 hours ago, admin said:

Good news everyone.
In one of the next patches crafted ships will be come with navy insurance. 

Insurance at base price (ship material cost + small %) will be automatically paid out if you ship sinks in a battle (to a player or to an NPC vessel). 
Insurance will only be provided for the ships crafted by the players (not for the admiralty ships or imported vessels, which are not covered by policies). 

 

I think this is a move in the right direction. Personally, I believe moving away from a durability based model was the wrong move to begin with and this is merely a bandaid to the current system. I submit that the main problem is lack of module availability. I think making modules bind to the account could solve most problems, or make them all easily craftable. 

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1 hour ago, Borch said:

Put this way, it makes sense thing is, you make mistake thinking that casuals loose their time "grinding". Its the main feature of casual player gameplay. He jumps to PvP whenever he feels confident (or bored of PvE) enough and no fear of loosing assets is only secondary on his list (if not even further down the list). 

1. Restructure rewards argument works for me but like I pointed out, "regrind" is not a probem in many casuals cases as its their usual way to play the game.

2. Agreed but fear of gear loss is not the main reason for casuals not to participate in PvP.

3. Thats a good and vaild point.

 

It means that you need to explain people why for example sinking pays you insurance while being boarded not. The instruction to the game is taking more and more pages with features that are not completely understandable ( for example not many people know why you cant use deck guns boarding in your Hercules against quite often bigger ship). You may think that its not important the more features like that and the harder to comprehend game becomes and its not about mastering your in game skill.

I'm afraid that the insurance money will be mostly used by hardcore players and casuals for which this feature is supposedly planned wont use it as often. But maybe I'm wrong seeing Admin's point 2 and 3.

Developement of bad features takes time and money. Better to find and discuss possibly broken feature before it is implemented to the game. Also check my answer to Jodgi.

Grinding is always a waste of time. It's boring and merely filler that is a poor substitute for actual gameplay. The grind is what Poor game developers use to fill a persons time in their game for lack of imagination to create interesting content. Honestly, as long as loss is so devastating to the player, they won't attract a large player base. There is multiple reasons why world of warships is immensely popular and this game is not. In world of warships the grind is best done in pvp. Loss merely means reduced income, not starting from scratch every time.  This insurance plan is a good start but probably not enough. 

Edited by Sir Malachy Karrde
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6 minutes ago, Sir Malachy Karrde said:

Grinding is always a waste of time. It's boring and merely filler that is a poor substitute for actual gameplay. The grind is what Poor game developers use to fill a persons time in their game for lack of imagination to create interesting content. Honestly, as long as loss is so devastating to the player, they won't attract a large player base. There is multiple reasons why world of warships is immensely popular and this game is not. In world of warships the grind is best done in pvp. Loss merely means reduced income, not starting from scratch every time.  This insurance plan is a good start but probably not enough. 

World of Warships from what i know is eqivalent to NA Legends. Completely different game. Playing the game (grinding in some peoples opinion) is natural way in case of sandbox MMO. Currently in NA playing (grinding) is almost non existant compared to other sandbox MMO. I'm not saying that grinding should be huge but the game should provide more ways to have fun in it and only then the population will grow.

As for insurance plan like you said yourself its maybe good but not enough. I'm arguing thats better to provide other better ways (like SAFE safe zone) than to rely on insurance which is not enough anyway and can help players that dont really need it.

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2 hours ago, Borch said:

"grinding". Its the main feature of casual player gameplay.

I don't believe that.

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Casual vs Hardcore... weeee.... casual time spending... or hardcore time spending... ? Casual approach to PvP or hardcore PvP'er ? Casual interest for the age of sail or hardcore age of sail grognard ? casual arcader ? or hardcore arcader ? hardcore sim and casual sim ? I never know what casual and hardcore means for you guys :) 

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Age of sail grognard, hardcore sim'er with casual time spending. I'm a complicated person. Cater to my needs :P

Edited by Malachi
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2 hours ago, SirAlatriste said:

I think this is not historical, but this is a small thing with pros.

your joking right .... the whole idea of insurance was built upon people betting on whether a ship would complete its journey .. in lloyds coffee house

this became known as insurance where a ship owner would bet against his ship making it home ,, therefore if he lost his ship and cargo he would still get cash ... hence lloyds of london was born

its no different tp car insurance where the premium is in effect you betting through your monthly premium that your car will be damaged or stolen ... the insurers bet is that it wont they win they get to keep your premium

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