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John Jacob Astor

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About John Jacob Astor

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    Washington State, USA

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  1. Now I think I finally understand your apparent stance on the baseline economics as regarding doubloons and crafting. The game is advertised as hardcore and realistic. Apparently the realism doesn't include merchant activity. At least not at any levels appropriate to the "beautiful age of sail." You apparently want all players engaging in combat at every sailing. Any economically meaningful level of crafting appears to be dependent on it. Yes, merchants playing on the War server should expect some degree of risk. But not need to regularly sail through the middle of Trafalgar. Well it is your game. Time for me to move on.
  2. John Jacob Astor

    Economy update 2. Improved trading

    Whether the doubloon price is astronomical depends on what they are being used for. If for notes, books, and for the component in the line ships, the prices are probably too low. If to buy extra labor, then yes. The prices are astronomical. Getting labor hours out of the same bucket as notes and books simply does not work. If you are going to insist on using Doubloons for this the labor hour yield from a contract would need to be increased by at least a factor of 10 for this to come close to making any economic sense. Probably a good deal more.
  3. John Jacob Astor

    Economy update 2. Improved trading

    Level 3 production buildings and a level 3 shipyard. Labor hour bonus. Using that yields a slightly more optimistic estimate.
  4. John Jacob Astor

    Economy update 2. Improved trading

    Which is what I was doing last spring before the DLC releases pretty much broke the market sector I selling into. In order for this to happen you need quite a few more folks interested in selling resources and crafted ships. Then the price comes down. But for this to happen the baseline resource and crafting math has to actually work. It currently does not. Resource extraction and ship crafting is currently restricted to free labor. Or it has to be subsidized with doubloons from combat. This is not a recipe for a self-sustaining economy. I am currently able to get Doubloons in the free ports for about 110 Reals each. This appears to result in an L3 labor valuation for a fir/fir T-brig (resources + shipyard) of roughly 80,000 Reals. Which pretty much swamps the straight cost in Reals used for the resources. And makes an Admiralty sale pretty much meaningless. I am really quite curious to know what you consider "el dorado" prices. What would you expect to pay for a fir/fir T-brig?
  5. John Jacob Astor

    Economy update 2. Improved trading

    AI yes. Crafting not so much. Unless you stick to free labor. But the economics blow all to hell if you start buying doubloons to get the labor. Don't have my notes handy but I suspect that 3k is in the neighborhood of the resource costs for a baseline build. With NO meaningful allowance for the labor costs for the resources and ship
  6. John Jacob Astor

    Economy update 2. Improved trading

    Won't be waiting around for that. I'm sure this will be a great game. But it's about done holding my interest.
  7. John Jacob Astor

    Economy update 2. Improved trading

    If you notice this site hasn't exactly kept up with game changes. I don't think he's been playing for some time. If he is still active he is free to chime in.
  8. John Jacob Astor

    Economy update 2. Improved trading

    Nothing. Except the folks that put API data on the web tend to be interested in combat mechanics. Not in economics.
  9. John Jacob Astor

    Economy update 2. Improved trading

    This is not exactly "improved trading." Unless you make the information available in a way that the user does not have to be a coder to access. Except that no merchant of any consequence visits every location they do business in. They have people for that.
  10. John Jacob Astor

    Economy update 2. Improved trading

    Final? So no other changes to the economy? Current trading ranges for Doubloons makes them impractical to use for extra labor if selling resources and crafted ships. This throttles contract market activity. Either 1) extra labor needs to be paid for in Reals or 2) merchants need their own way of obtaining extra labor for Reals that is separate from the Admiralty conversion. Given what else Doubloons are used for I am not seeing how they could possibly be balanced so as to make extra labor a practical option. Except for maybe successful combat players who can simply ignore the trading cost.
  11. John Jacob Astor

    War server player stats.

    Possibly. On the other hand I bought this game (US player) because I was intrigued by the age of sail. I got hooked (last spring) by a player-to-player economy. Which is why I am waiting around for the updates. I play games because I like them. I stop playing because I don't. I never went anywhere near user forums for any of them until I had to sort out the mechanics of how to play THIS game. If Steam allows it, the only way to actually know this answer to this question is with actual customer surveys. Self-generated online reviews (weighted toward the crabby customer) and the relatively small numbers that post in these forums aren't really going to give you a meaningful answer to that question.
  12. John Jacob Astor

    War server player stats.

    Do you have this data available for contract sales of resources and crafted ship sales?
  13. John Jacob Astor

    Typical day in NA

    Perhaps I misunderstood you but I was referencing your comment on crafting. It has to do with why I was crafting last spring and am doing very little now. It currently lacks an underlying economic logic. Unless you have alts and the free labor they provide. It may be possible to just have crafting without functioning ship markets. But it will be bottlenecked to a small number of players.
  14. John Jacob Astor

    Typical day in NA

    In order for this to happen crafting needs to be interesting. Which means having player-to-player markets that actually work. That was what hooked me on on the game. The intermediate materials was just busywork and I was frankly glad to see that go. But what kept me in the game was finding a crafting niche and selling ships. I've reached level 50 since stumbling into this game last Spring. Being chased around and occasionally caught added a fair bit of fizz to the drink and made it MORE interesting. So no, I am not looking to turn this into a PvE server. But it doesn't work when the game mechanics either compete directly against player sales, or in some cases, outright keep markets from functioning. For instance, I am having difficulty understanding why anyone would craft a Surprise. As of Saturday a Bermuda Cedar (planking & frame) ship was for sale in La Tortue for 99,000 Reals. At an available price (as of server refresh) the option wood cost 13 Reals per unit. Which yields a total baseline resource cost for building the Surprise of approximately 9,900 Reals. But at the price I am currently able to consistently buy Doubloons, the resultant labor valuation is nearly ten times that. So why would anyone craft this to sell to another player when you can buy the note in the Admiralty for 1500 Doubloons? There is no way to sell the Surprise at a high enough price to make money on it. Buyers will skip that and just go buy the note with their Doubloon hoard. I've come to a firm conclusion on this. I don't think will be possible to balance the Doubloon layer in the economy as long extra labor is for crafting is dependent on it. One of two things needs to happen. Either, 1) Extra labor needs to be paid for in Reals. Mixed-game crafters will find this an annoyance. But based on what I'm seeing in the Doubloon markets you all are unlikely to have any trouble selling them, either in Free Ports, or your national capitals. In two weeks my arbitrage volume (Freeports to Charleston) has reached levels where I actually have to pay attention to the limits of my Money Chest. 2) Merchant players (shipbuilders and resource sellers) need to have a realistic way of buying extra labor that is not depended on Doubloons. Agreed. The player-to-player economy needs to actually work if it's going to be included in the game. It IS why I have been waiting around...
  15. The value is whatever what someone is willing to pay you for them in either the Freeports or your national capital. There was a contract to buy posted in Aves this morning at 150 Reals. I'm getting 250 easy in Charleston. I could probably get more, but even profiteers have limits But don't bother trying to sell them anywhere else. This localized stove-piping rather skews the markets and helps blow up the economics of using them for extra labor. Which in-turn throttles baseline ship crafting and resource sales down to what can be done with the free labor allotment. Of course players who are "swimming" in doubloons, as @admin puts it, will simply ignore the labor cost. I don't think it will address the supply problem as it appears to be more attractive to spend them on admiralty goodies than sell them for Reals. But we really DO need global contract visibility of some sort.
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