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Percival Merewether

Exciting OR RNG crafting is back, and I have a problem with it.

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1 minute ago, NavalActionPlayer said:

To my fellow gamers - give up offering feedback, it is pointless. This lot just don't want or care about your views. Hell, they don't seem to even want anyone but themselves playing 'their' game.

Oh bugger off with this drivel. The devshave changed many things in this game in response to player feedback including items in this latest patch release. Don't throw a hissy fit because they disagree with you on this one.

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I don't mind slight RNG, but with this update I was hoping for solid incentives to be a crafter and using crafted ships over note ships.

While I think this is a step in the right direction, its still missing something. Some RNG isn't bad but this is entirely RNG, not tied to shipyard level, crafting level, materials or anything.

I think that's what a lot of people don't like about it.

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11 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

I don't mind slight RNG, but with this update I was hoping for solid incentives to be a crafter and using crafted ships over note ships.

While I think this is a step in the right direction, its still missing something. Some RNG isn't bad but this is entirely RNG, not tied to shipyard level, crafting level, materials or anything.

I think that's what a lot of people don't like about it.

As previously mentioned, I'd like RNG removed completely. I do however see your point and I agree that there is some fun in the new implementation. I'm sure some compromise can be made.

Admin argues that my suggestion would benefit "powerplayers" more than casuals. I believe the exact opposite since only "powerplayers" have the resources to make 20 ships in a row to get the best builds. I'm curious to hear what other people think?

What if the chances of getting a better build was higher? That too would benefit the casuals - even better would be to chose the type of trim (mast/hull/crew). Not a fan of either of these two ideas, just throwing them out there.

If we can combine this with some kind of gathering of material using Trademissions then I'm sold! More ships in OW :)

 

Edited by NicklasK

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Y'all doth protest too much.

 

Ships are living things. You can't conceive a child without some mutations in the genes.

 

For instance, Endymion was the only ship of her class to be so fast.

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3 hours ago, admin said:

This is a gift to crafters who make ships not RNG 

Almost always you get a great  3-5 vessel, but sometimes due to fate or providence: good mood of the architect, good wenches the day before, better drier wood, your shipyard produces something better, and very very rarely something a lot better. Its a bonus. not RNG. It is not against the spirit of the age of sail. Classes had a lot of ships and some ships in those classes actually were found to be EVEN better. 

We are confident with this feature and love it. We are fully aware that some people look at it differently. But hey Its just a game.

This is a release feature. 

I think that its a great feature, although you are going too far with 2 additional module slots.

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2 hours ago, Coraline Vodka said:

How about a compromise, keep the fun rng bonuses but please limit perm mods to 3. 5 is far to many. @admin

Now that I think of it if 5/5 ships are super rare than I wouldn't mind it, but it needs to stay a super rare and maybe even limit it to folks with level 50 crafting as something you can get on a 1 in 100 chance when crafting a ship.  Though I would prob stick with just one extra slots not two.

Edited by Sir Texas Sir

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8 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Now that I think of it if 5/5 ships are super rare than I wouldn't mind it, but it needs to stay a super rare and maybe even limit it to folks with level 50 crafting as something you can get on a 1 in 100 chance when crafting a ship.  Though I would prob stick with just one extra slots not two.

that means we just need to vend 99 ships and keep one.

 

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5 hours ago, Wraith said:

Two extra permanent slots, with super trims and the OP skill books stacking is not just a "nice extra bonus." It's a must-have for competitive RvR and PvP fleets and should never be a RNG outcome.

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1 minute ago, King of Crowns said:

that means we just need to vend 99 ships and keep one.

 

1 in 100 odds doens't mean you will get it at 99.  Either way if you want to build that many ships just to get one one super rare ship than more power to you.  I'm sure folks will buy up a few of those other 99 ships.

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Ok so I was crafting a few ships testing this out making ships for alts and other clan mates and well maybe it's not like 1 in 100 odds.  Got a 4/5 ship...lol  Though I did get a Teak/Teak Connie with no perk so there is a chance you get nothing.

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

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I like the feature. But @admin pls let us give names to our beloved unique ships ... and to the good old 3/5 ships that served us well!

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5 hours ago, maturin said:

Y'all doth protest too much.

 

Ships are living things. You can't conceive a child without some mutations in the genes.

 

For instance, Endymion was the only ship of her class to be so fast.

But do not forget that the sisterships of the Endymion performed similarly to eachother and were of a slightly different design + built on the cheap using softwoods (fir). That is the main reason why the sisterships were decommissioned early while the Endymion continued in service for roughly 40 years after the others were broken up.

The performance issues were clearly down to design and material choice; so I'd say the Endymion is an excellent example of why you should be able to influence your design more and not less... But it is an interesting discussion.

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Just now, Anne Wildcat said:

Sigh, the gap between the casual player and the hardcore player just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger. 

Its not like you allways get these bonuses.

We crafted maybe 8 or so Bellonas yesterday. 2 Agile 1 very Agile that was it. Nothing with more than 3 permaslots.

 

As long as these realy good ships are realy rare and you dont need to craft 3 to get 1 imba ojt of it im ok with it TBH.

Maybe bonuses itself have to be reduced a bit though. Pirate refit?

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11 hours ago, jodgi said:

We've been through this already and know what will happen: Power gamers will click hard for the special stuff (money doesn't matter). When we were active and had a resource train operational three crafters clicked, sold, clicked sold ad nauseam until all Rakers had optimal ships. Then we clicked to have spares. We were always in top golden ships.

I know the intention, but this will lead to more frustration among the power clickers and "normal" players. The former will tire and the latter will feel left out. Lower the drop rate and frustration will only increase in both camps.

You can't curb power gamer monopoly when you keep adding rare things. 

OW is by design a power gamer's sandbox, sometimes we pretend to care for the little man, but it's a sham.

"Randomly available to all" is almost Orwellian.

TBH all in the same identical ships will be more Orwellian

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I find the change good should the percentages of getting rare ship refits be too low after many builts so that someone that makes let's say 10 ships of the same class, receives the 10th as a super rare ship. I understand the logic of it and i like it but please.. keep the percentage of getting them low.

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27 minutes ago, rediii said:

Its not like you allways get these bonuses.

We crafted maybe 8 or so Bellonas yesterday. 2 Agile 1 very Agile that was it. Nothing with more than 3 permaslots.

 

As long as these realy good ships are realy rare and you dont need to craft 3 to get 1 imba ojt of it im ok with it TBH.

Maybe bonuses itself have to be reduced a bit though. Pirate refit?

I see where you're coming from, but won't the rarity of the upgrades have the opposite effect of what's intended?  Like you said yourself.. you crafted 8 Bellonas - no casual player will be able to do that.

What if you craft 20? Eventually you''ll get that "Very fast" T/T 5-5 Bellona.

This means that now you, as a "powerplayer", have the best ship - and you can now sell the remaining 19 to Casuals who have no hope of getting the same vessel as you. 

Please correct me if I'm wrong in my asumptions. I'm not saying this is something that you will do - but I think it's very likely that this is what is going to happen with other players.

Edited by NicklasK

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19 minutes ago, victor said:

TBH all in the same identical ships will be more Orwellian

I guess you could say it would... But we need to go deeper. Animal farm points at the dissonance between the stated intention of "everyone is equal" and the reality of "some animals are more equal than others". Who are "more equal" than others? Who benefits from keeping this disconnect between intention and reality, both in Animal farm and NA-OW?

Also: double-speak and new-speak.

I grade you "C" on your literature test.

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2 minutes ago, NicklasK said:

I see where you're coming from, but won't the rarity of the upgrades have the opposite effect of what's intended?  Like you said yourself.. you crafted 8 Bellonas - no casual player will be able to do that.

What if you craft 20? Eventually you''ll get that "Very fast" T/T 5-5 Bellona.

This means that now you, as a "powerplayer", have the best ship - and you can now sell the remaining 19 to Casuals who have no hope of getting the same vessel as you. 

Please correct me if I'm wrong in my asumptions. I'm not saying this is something that you will do - but I think it's very likely that this is what is going to happen with other players.

Not I crafted these bellonas. If you'd know me you would know I sail every ship possible as long as it is half decent (woods) and cheap/low effort to get. These Bellonas were build by different players and 1 of them build some more because he had ressources stocked and got some from our cwh.

We instantly used these ships by the way aswell and I see now good ships in the shop in gustavia to buy for new players aswell. It is a nice byproduct.

Like @Liq I also think that you should sail 95% of the time cheap ships with okayish upgrades. Realy good ships will probably only be used in portbattles and even if not you overestimate these rare ships.

 

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1 minute ago, rediii said:

Not I crafted these bellonas. If you'd know me you would know I sail every ship possible as long as it is half decent (woods) and cheap/low effort to get. These Bellonas were build by different players and 1 of them build some more because he had ressources stocked and got some from our cwh.

We instantly used these ships by the way aswell and I see now good ships in the shop in gustavia to buy for new players aswell. It is a nice byproduct.

Like @Liq I also think that you should sail 95% of the time cheap ships with okayish upgrades. Realy good ships will probably only be used in portbattles and even if not you overestimate these rare ships.

 

I specifically stated :"I'm not saying this is something that you will do ". I quoted your statement to show that a powerplayer with enough materials will be able to do that.

you have to see beyond what you, as an honest player, would do.

We know players will abuse in-game mechanics, we know people farm PvP Marks, we know there has been abuse of trade-missions. I'm sure that my example is going to happen eventually. Is it something we should try to prevent? Or just live with the fact that "Powerplayers" and "Exploiters" will have the best; thus increasing the gap between the player groups?

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Just now, NicklasK said:

I specifically stated :"I'm not saying this is something that you will do ". I quoted your statement to show that a powerplayer with enough materials will be able to do that.

you have to see beyond what you, as an honest player, would do.

We know players will abuse in-game mechanics, we know people farm PvP Marks, we know there has been abuse of trade-missions. I'm sure that my example is going to happen eventually. Is it something we should try to prevent? Or just live with the fact that "Powerplayers" and "Exploiters" will have the best; thus increasing the gap between the player groups?

You also have too keep in mind that these ships have to be crafted with the correct woods aswell.

I dont say clans wont do it but if they do it its expensive.

I agree though that bonuses should be nerfed a bit. Carta for example and pirate refit

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1 minute ago, rediii said:

You also have too keep in mind that these ships have to be crafted with the correct woods aswell.

I dont say clans wont do it but if they do it its expensive.

I agree though that bonuses should be nerfed a bit. Carta for example and pirate refit

I like the idea of reducing the bonuses to near insignificant levels - that would make it a gift rather than a necessity. I can get behind that 100% :)

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One thing we should not forget. There will again be luckers who will craft optimal ships without much effort and others who struggle and will not get any bonus or completely useless for their cases. For example, the long-awaited bonus then on a merchant ship.
 
Statistics are one, individual cases are something else. Random is always unfair and will simply cause frustration for many players. For me, a clear step back in this game.
 
In the search for Skillbooks I can live with it, because this can be done without much effort. But here has it another dimension, because the effort is much bigger and, in first of all, irrational. To produce so many ships just to break up them again.
 
... also, you never know with which ship you should now be satisfied and provide it with expensive upgrades.

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