Doubloons in shipbuilding

[RedHawk04]

@Admin will the object needed to teleport in Port Battle cost doublons?

[Frosty]

Sekiro, with your complaints you're only defending your gameplay, not the economy nor anything else. We all know you don't give a hello kitty about it, but you ignore that removing doubs from that will make crafting more attractive. Think about that: less redoutable spam (I don't spam redoutables anyway, if you say so you're an idiot, you know why we used so many in the past). I used one yesterday since I didn't have other ships available in the short term, for the rest I use them ONLY for Patrol. The truth is that you see so many around (and that's why now I stopped using bellona, wasa and similar, it's literally impossible, I use only inger and stuff like that), because Redo is best in its class, AND because it's convenient. Why convenient? Because if you redeem you spend nothing, if you craft it requires 7.5k for an Implacable (same ship). Maybe reals will be now the way to craft ships and make crafting more attracting than redeeming a DLC? Who knows... but frankly, reading all these tears from a lot of people before this has been introduced makes me worry about this community: one day you cry for too many DLCs, the day after you cry when a solution is offered. 

@admin really looking forward to having more details, please. Also one solution to make crafting more attractive might be buffing the other third rates, as you announced more than 3 months ago, but never did? I think it takes not more than 30 minutes to edit stats and BR for ships... 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Comrade FrosT

[Malcolm3]

1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

But on another point of view the same approach to "crafting" mechanics may be used by other historical mmos in different ways. There's no crafting but there's a automated umpire resolution of supply chains for example. Not saying it is applicable to NA, it is not and definitely not at this stage. For example ww2ol. Players do not craft or anything but supply mechanics are there. Same with big arena games ( granted, not mmo ) that rely on supply. 

We are over that period now. Less clicks in crafting was asked for and when patch hit the majority did praise it when middleware parts were removed. No more carriages, no more knees.

On the overall simulation field it left a void at the strategic level of asymmetric wars, the small surviving by raiding the big and managing to deny and at the same time use the raided good to build their own needed veffels.

I've suggested such system a year before here (very large amount of Russian text):

Parts 3 and 4

[Ronald Speirs]

I think is crafting quantities, labor etc was reduced and the actual original ships costing less then maybe we would see more of the original ships getting used more, i gather the crafters having time to pvp and farm instead of mundane time consuming back and forth hauling will make them enjoy the game more, even mods and books should be cheaper and easier to come by, we want people out there having fun in this game not spending 100’s of hours grinding and getting their hard worked stuff getting trashed by DLC seasoned ships, the greed to push DLC and allowing people 24 hours to re-redeem didnt help the only other aspect in this game from the ship combat, there are multiple games that have their balance right and thrived, unfortunately this game never had the right balance to get the better reviews yet hence the need to get money for development somewhere to push the game work further.

Oh and the RnG sucks in this game which makes the crafting suck when u get garbage, surely that could be a port upgrade thing, the sturdy, agile builds could be from ports instead of random, and slots requiring slightly more resources instead.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Ronald Speirs

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

23 hours ago, RedHawk04 said:

I really agree. Too much dlc ships in OW, there are whole battles of 10 players sailing in redout and victory. Variety is one of the most important features of the game, dlc ships should add content to the game, and not reduce the game at combats with same 3 classes of ship

sorry to say, but that´s also a ship-meta-issue and not only dlcs fault. many players seem to never sail inferior ships.

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

5 hours ago, admin said:

Often people have imaginary solutions to real problems due to lack of experience or because they seen it working somewhere else (without full understanding why it works somewhere else).. Advice based on Intellect without experience can bring more harm than good. 

crafting is not good in 99% of MMOs and lots of pvp games somehow survive without crafting.  99% of posters who suggest vibrant dynamic economies have never implemented them anywhere and have zero clue how hard (almost impossible) it is. 100 people teams were not able to do it, demanding vibrant economies from a team with 1 programmer is more than puzzling.

Crafting was added by player suggestions (players did not want to capture ships and wanted to build them), it was always advertised as basic (even in steam greenlight), you got what we advertised, your dreams about HMS POTENTIAL, will always break on the iron broadsides of USS REALITY.

And you did good to make crafting available! I´d prefer the mechanics with construction elements as some time ago, but still, building ships (and sailing them of course) in all variations is one of the most satisfying aspects in our game. this game is one of the 1% mmos where crafting works just fine

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

5 hours ago, Swedish Berserker said:

No wonder stuff like that comes from the No1 DLC Spamming clan in the game lol! 

Crafting is not dead just becouse you guys are to afraid to sail crafter ships! 

The "amount of dubs" lol first rate Kosts what? 10k dubs? That's one day PVPing so it nothing lol! 

 

no wonder stuff like that come from the no. 1 bullshit-spamming player in the forum

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

3 hours ago, rediii said:

NA was a great game about loss and meaningfull battles for me with RvR based on social and mechanical skill (numbers and ability to win) thats why I put 5k hours into it

Now its just a game about battles with a terrible matchmaking system. These games dont even hit the 100h mark for me mostly

So while players dislike the crafting itself the thing is what is behind the crafting. Atleast for me and the already silent playerbase that doesnt check the forum anymore.

those of the silent player-base will have plenty of different reasons for having left the game as you have your own personal viewpoints, or do you know all their opinions? sorry, that way of including silent people in one´s own personal point of view causes me some allergic reaction :). nonetheless it is indeed sad they lost interest at all.

[Lukas97Austria]

27 minutes ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said:

no wonder stuff like that come from the no. 1 bullshit-spamming player in the forum

Last three battles he was in he was in a Redoutable.   Arguing why we don't risk our ships in a brawl. When we had crafted ships. One time I had inger vs his Redoutable +bellona +imblacabe ^^. 

Don't take him to serious.  Some players don't understand that if you can't replace ships easy they try to get the best out of it.  Fighting an unwinnable battle is only a viable if the ship you use is replaceable. Not everyone has this luck to can do it. 

[Aquillas]

Disparition of doubloons, which is not announced, would even not be a concern. We could have a good game with a single currency instead of four now (reals, doubloons, medals and VMarks). Balancing 4 currencies is very difficult. 

Crafting is not dead, even with DLCs. Just sail in 6/7th rates (Niagara, Privateer), you will rapidly see the difference between a capped ship and a crafted one.

Big ships lovers can use their Holly Vic's, then Redoutable etc. once a day, to earn time. We will see rapidly the predominance of crafted 1st rates when PB's will be back on.

I have all DLCs, I use it just a few. Most of redeemed ships are just good for crap.

[Jan van Santen]

Suggestion: keep doublons in craft materials but make them quality boosters ? (Similar to the gold coins in past)

eg : (1/ rank x multiplier )  x (1/ slots) x doublons = increased probability to get a 3+ slot ship

 

Edit: A bit confused now. Todays patch didnt change the dubs requirement. A LO still costs 9K ish dubs ?

Edited June 2, 2020 by Jan van Santen

[Swedish Berserker]

2 hours ago, Lukas97Austria said:

Last three battles he was in he was in a Redoutable.   Arguing why we don't risk our ships in a brawl. When we had crafted ships. One time I had inger vs his Redoutable +bellona +imblacabe ^^. 

Don't take him to serious.  Some players don't understand that if you can't replace ships easy they try to get the best out of it.  Fighting an unwinnable battle is only a viable if the ship you use is replaceable. Not everyone has this luck to can do it. 

We didn't even fought 3 battles against each other lol! it was 2 battles on the same day! In witch I used a Redout yeah Cuse I redeemed a good one so I use it! Next day I sail Implac lol I have 30 ships laying around and I choose according to the situation! If I now I am going to be ganked by frensh I Def. Not take a fully seasoned Christian 😂😂😂

And by the way I ran away in every battle that day joker!! 

[FrostZone]

I think some of us a reading WAY to much into it.  Removing doubloons from shipbuilding makes shipbuilding easier, hence we can craft more ships and are able to spend a little more time in combat and a little less time farming for doubloons.

@admin can correct me if I am wrong about that.

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

Ok if you remove the Doubloons from crafting and replace it with REALS, can you boost the REALS rewards for combat and such?  Other than making trade runs you really can't make money off combat with reals.   There needs to be some balance and I shouldn't have to spend all my time doing trade runs to get the reals I need to craft a ship.   I should be making the money while grinding AI.  You nerfded the reals so much that you have to fight way above your ships tier to make any money and with the ships buff it's very deadly to do this for most casuals.  Not to mention you get the exact same rewards for elite ships as you do for normal AI.  Again ELITES SHOULD BE GIVENING YOU ELITE REWARDS.  Give them the same boost we get for PvP battles and maybe boost PvP battles up a little more for rewards so loosing a ship isn't such a hard hit on those that actually craft and not just play DLC only ships.  The Reals you get when your ship is sunk is a joke, it doesn't even pay for the cannons you put on your ship.

[Christendom]

10 hours ago, admin said:

Often people have imaginary solutions to real problems due to lack of experience or because they seen it working somewhere else (without full understanding why it works somewhere else).. Advice based on Intellect without experience can bring more harm than good. 

crafting is not good in 99% of MMOs and lots of pvp games somehow survive without crafting.  99% of posters who suggest vibrant dynamic economies have never implemented them anywhere and have zero clue how hard (almost impossible) it is. 100 people teams were not able to do it, demanding vibrant economies from a team with 1 programmer is more than puzzling.

Crafting was added by player suggestions (players did not want to capture ships and wanted to build them), it was always advertised as basic (even in steam greenlight), you got what we advertised, your dreams about HMS POTENTIAL, will always break on the iron broadsides of USS REALITY.

I think you're missing the mark here.  This is a conquest game with a winner take all mindset (old dogs like us call this full loot MMO) and has been designed to give nations an edge over others.  A crafting system is necessary to this style of game.

Personally I've disliked all of the crafting systems post fine woods patch.  I thought that blend of modest difficulty, logistics and various bonuses for certain regions was the peak of NA crafting.  The only downside was durabilities on most of the ships.  Bringing back that system + removing duras would be a major success IMO.

The flaw in the current system, which is why I support removing doubs, is that ships (and even more so with seasoned ships) are simply not accessible to the smaller clan/solo players with relative ease.  We currently have a blend of expensive ships, cannons and mods and NO durabilities.  We need either expensive ships + duras   or simply cheaper ships.  Having seen what goes on behind the scenes in the RVR juggernaught that is Russia, it's not all roses and daisies.  Anolytic and company put in many hours on multiple characters to get things done.  To compete you need to treat the game like a job, which I don't think is ideal for long term viability.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Christendom

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 hours ago, Ronald Speirs said:

I think is crafting quantities, labor etc was reduced and the actual original ships costing less then maybe we would see more of the original ships getting used more, i gather the crafters having time to pvp and farm instead of mundane time consuming back and forth hauling will make them enjoy the game more, even mods and books should be cheaper and easier to come by, we want people out there having fun in this game not spending 100’s of hours grinding and getting their hard worked stuff getting trashed by DLC seasoned ships, the greed to push DLC and allowing people 24 hours to re-redeem didnt help the only other aspect in this game from the ship combat, there are multiple games that have their balance right and thrived, unfortunately this game never had the right balance to get the better reviews yet hence the need to get money for development somewhere to push the game work further.

Oh and the RnG sucks in this game which makes the crafting suck when u get garbage, surely that could be a port upgrade thing, the sturdy, agile builds could be from ports instead of random, and slots requiring slightly more resources instead.

Part of the problem why we don't see so many of the ships crafted is so many of them have permits locked behind RNG loot drop. I suggested before keep the RNG loot drops as free ways to get them.  Instead have them in the Admiralty shop for Doubllons and even VM's since there isn't a lot of things you can do with VM's so it would be nice if you could use them to buy permits too.   I actually thought this was what they where going to do when they mention it would be easier to get permits in the future.   I honestly would put the permits for sale for CM's instead for sale for doublons/VM's and than make the LOOT drop permits for sale for CM's.  That would allow more folks to get the ships.  Also stop hiding ships behind events that might happen once a year.  AdR should not be a  special even ship, maybe if they had a speical paint of it than I would see, like the SC is honestly just a Hermon with a special paint.   By making that ship a special event ship after saying it will be craftable pissed a lot of crafters off including myself as I been waiting for a ship I can have 32's on two decks for a long time.  Now I have one I got in the event the few hours i had to do it (was working 12 hour shifts at the time) and it's a crappy build, but hay I got it to unlock slots in.   

We have DLC for those that don't want to craft so why mess with the crafters that are all ready set in there ways. I didn't see anything wrong with the current crafting ssytem but didn't understand why I was paying doubloons on top of CM's for permits for ships.  If a ship has a permit that should be the only special cost over mats.

Also why don't max level crafters get a boost to there crafting to get better chance ships crafted in ports?  I never understand this?  It use to be that way where you got to craft Master Craft stuff at level 50.  This will along with port bonus give crafting ships better match to DLC ships and folks would want to use them more.

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

6 hours ago, Never said:

If that's so please tell us how removing the old crafting system we had 1-2 years ago has improved the game? Cause I don't see the advantages we gained from having taken that off the game. We already had a good and very nice crafting system that was dynamic, you created it already and it was pretty damn good. I honestly don't understand why it was removed for an overly simple system that hasn't really made anything better in the long run. 

Reality as you put it didn't cause that system to fail, it seems more like the need to try to constantly change things about the game that are working just fine. Instead why not add new content rather than re-do content already in the game over and over and over. 

It was removed because the pew-pew people complained about it being a "clickfest".

Old crafting was glorious, I still remember it favorably.

Meanwhile I don't understand why admin here "admits" to not having the perfect economy system in game. I think it works pretty good. And still captains can have fun in trader or crafter careers. Hauling things over the map makes sense and is fun. Other individuals can just go shooting ships and don't need trading. All good.

Now I wish we added significance of trading turnover to port well-being (made a suggestion months ago) and there you would have another big purpose of trading. Really - nothing to complain about in trading matters right now. Admin, be proud of it like you are proud of your ship models and battle simulations!

[admin]

2 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

It was removed because the pew-pew people complained about it being a "clickfest".

Old crafting was glorious, I still remember it favorably.

 

which old crafting are you both talking about? The Unlock one? Like craft 10 trincomalees to unlock a constitution or what crafting?

[Ronald Speirs]

16 minutes ago, rediii said:

The craft barrles, medium notes etc one I guess

Ewww  that system was horrible also, they could just make life much easier and get more people out there having fun, kinda like POTBS just not as much off branches on items that over complicate it.

[A N D I]

Me for myself, i craft and do PvP. Get the ressources due the help of clan mates or the market. The doubs i got from PvP'ing and also for selling ships i capturedf for doubs. For me the crafting system itself worked kinda fine, the only issue i see is, that even with the DLC which gives u more slots, u cant get all the buildings which are required to get all ressources for yourself by crafting.

But the doub system as it is, should stay in my eyes. i pretty like how everything with the doubs is atm.

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

33 minutes ago, admin said:

which old crafting are you both talking about? The Unlock one? Like craft 10 trincomalees to unlock a constitution or what crafting?

I mean the system with intermediate parts, which created sub-industries with the players and production chains.

Like players who specialized in making light/heavy carriages, knees or whatever and delivered them to the shipcrafters who put all together.

And all of them gained experience.

I think it was in autumn 2018 when that was exchanged for current system.

[Christendom]

25 minutes ago, Ronald Speirs said:

Ewww  that system was horrible also, they could just make life much easier and get more people out there having fun, kinda like POTBS just not as much off branches on items that over complicate it.

yet it created a need for additional crafters in the clan rather than alts + labor contracts.  Also helped new players earn cash (that's how I started out) and allowed them to learn the ropes with entry level crafting.

[Never]

How about this insanely crazy idea... If doubloons are too expensive; why not reduce the amount needed to craft each ship to 50% of what it is now?  

[Jan van Santen]

11 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

I mean the system with intermediate parts, which created sub-industries with the players and production chains.

Like players who specialized in making light/heavy carriages, knees or whatever and delivered them to the shipcrafters who put all together.

And all of them gained experience.

I think it was in autumn 2018 when that was exchanged for current system.

This. It also had 2 more advantages: 

1) you could fedex precursors to a free port near your crafter

2) Very little randomness. Quality could be added by "gold coins" iirc.

And yes, permits obtained by crafting also made sense, bec specialized crafters gained an advantage, while the uprising ones could still gain exp by crafting precursors.

I never understood why you gave up that system and put effort into a worse crafting....

"Never change a winning system"...and that was, what you did to crafting imho. 

[Never]

11 minutes ago, Jan van Santen said:

This. It also had 2 more advantages: 

1) you could fedex precursors to a free port near your crafter

2) Very little randomness. Quality could be added by "gold coins" iirc.

And yes, permits obtained by crafting also made sense, bec specialized crafters gained an advantage, while the uprising ones could still gain exp by crafting precursors.

I never understood why you gave up that system and put effort into a worse crafting....

"Never change a winning system"...and that was, what you did to crafting imho. 

That system had it's flaws but it was very well put together. It would've been nice to address it's flaws rather than getting rid of it. 

The whole point of having an open world MMO is to add aspects of simulation and immersion to the game, if all people wanted is a pvp battle arena then NA Legends would've worked.