Doubloons in shipbuilding

[Macjimm]

3 hours ago, Lt Sekiro said:

You just want explain something everyone understand already....

Not really.  I was seeking clarification, because I think some players may not understand that only some of "Trade with Good" is fun.  But thanks for your reply.

[Frosty]

Let us contemplate Sekiro whining for it but I'm sure this is a step in the right direction. They probably want to make crafting more convenient now with the DLC spam happening.

At least that is my hope, and everyone should hope for the same, instead of crying to keep the old system, because it's clearly not working and after Redoutable release I stopped crafting completely apart from a couple of ingers and a couple of Bucentaures and Snows for PBs. Let's be honest, crafting is pretty much dead, getting it for reals will revive it as the bottleneck was the amount of Doubs required.

[Urchin]

I like all these suggestions for earning reals now that dubs have been made near worthless overnight. Except leaving out the most popular method of all, Russian Alt for easy trade runs and best ship crafting.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Urchin

[BuckleUpBones]

40 minutes ago, Urchin said:

now that dubs have been made near worthless overnight

delivery missions also wiped of the map.

[Lt Sekiro]

1 hour ago, Comrade FrosT said:

Let us contemplate Sekiro whining for it but I'm sure this is a step in the right direction. They probably want to make crafting more convenient now with the DLC spam happening.

At least that is my hope, and everyone should hope for the same, instead of crying to keep the old system, because it's clearly not working and after Redoutable release I stopped crafting completely apart from a couple of ingers and a couple of Bucentaures and Snows for PBs. Let's be honest, crafting is pretty much dead, getting it for reals will revive it as the bottleneck was the amount of Doubs required.

Whining , lol....

From a bstd redoutable spam clan, what expect.

I'm not whining , i give a opinion about futur change dev want to make. It will change a balance about differente money of the game.

In a open world game , for the globale price be a lit good , you need way to kick of  value money ( For NA => Combat medals , doubs , victory marks) out of the game at long time , if you don't have , money will juste stay everytime beetween players, make price will raise cause all will be riche , like we already have before release.

For combat medals you have the admiralty with pvp upgrade and permit make everyone speed lot of this value money

For victory marks we have a new long time way with port upgrade

But for doubs... Now you will spend doubs for buildind, most of player have this buidling actually.
 And  for upgrade, but the spend price compare to craft ship is really small.

Doubs will now be stacked like Victory marks for a long time , starting to be a usless money in few time.

If they found a way to make doubs be still used for kick of the game a part of this money everyday , i'm ok with that , but actually i give my negatif opinion without crying like i see you do most of time with patchnotes.

Be a men , stop spam redoutable

 

[Urchin]

1 hour ago, BuckleUpBones said:

delivery missions also wiped of the map.

 

Really? Wow it's like Beta again. How many variations have we seen of rewards over the past few years. 

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

2 hours ago, Urchin said:

I like all these suggestions for earning reals now that dubs have been made near worthless overnight. Except leaving out the most popular method of all, Russian Alt for easy trade runs and best ship crafting.

if u knew anything u know much better nations for trading than RU

 

but keep cry

[Never]

4 hours ago, Comrade FrosT said:

Let us contemplate Sekiro whining for it but I'm sure this is a step in the right direction. They probably want to make crafting more convenient now with the DLC spam happening.

At least that is my hope, and everyone should hope for the same, instead of crying to keep the old system, because it's clearly not working and after Redoutable release I stopped crafting completely apart from a couple of ingers and a couple of Bucentaures and Snows for PBs. Let's be honest, crafting is pretty much dead, getting it for reals will revive it as the bottleneck was the amount of Doubs required.

That doesn't counter Sekiro's point, which is that the main reward for PVP is doubloons. Isn't pvp supposed to be the main aspect of this game? 
There are many ways to improve on crafting without having to destroy the pvp rewards system. Fix one thing and break another, you don't think there are better ways?

Plus sorry but you're wrong in last sentence there as well. The main bottle neck in crafting is not doubloons but seasoned wood. Most people want to craft seasoned ships. I doubt there's many people out there wanting to craft seasoned ships but can't cause they don't have enough doubloons. Crafting has slowed down not because of doubloons being an issue but because most players know that a crafted ship with normal wood can't compete with a DLC full seasoned ship. Doubloons and crafting never had any big issue before the intro of seasoned wood, people were crafting ships all the time without major issues. 

DLC should've never had seasoned wood even if we accept seasoned wood as an unavoidable upgrade to the game.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Never

[Urchin]

2 hours ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

if u knew anything u know much better nations for trading than RU

 

but keep cry

No because for Alts they can just set sail and it's all open water in the Gulf while they are using main for other action.  I come across more traders that are obviously alts in the gulf than anywhere else on the map. Not to mention the best and easiest ship building. 

[Farrago]

5 hours ago, Comrade FrosT said:

Let us contemplate Sekiro whining for it but I'm sure this is a step in the right direction. They probably want to make crafting more convenient now with the DLC spam happening.

Oh how I would hope you are right.

However, I’ve found it’s far easier to understand most changes that have happened in game for several years by imagining myself in the role of the owner of a game development company.

1. How can I sell more copies of the game including selling 2nd and 3rd copies to previous customers?

And more importantly...

2. How can I promote the sale of DLCs?

Unfortunately, the answer to neither of those questions is to make ship crafting a fun and viable alternative to me selling copies and DLC.

Note: My personal opinion is the real answer to our population problems was having a vibrant, dynamic economic and crafting life path for captains to pursue as a fun option but the time for that has passed with Naval Action 1.0. 

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

Sekiro is free to trade when he needs money. 

 

Why do people decide to only do one thing in this game and demand it all revolves around them? 

[admin]

1 hour ago, Farrago said:

 

Note: My personal opinion is the real answer to our population problems was having a vibrant, dynamic economic and crafting life path for captains to pursue as a fun option but the time for that has passed with Naval Action 1.0. 

Often people have imaginary solutions to real problems due to lack of experience or because they seen it working somewhere else (without full understanding why it works somewhere else).. Advice based on Intellect without experience can bring more harm than good. 

crafting is not good in 99% of MMOs and lots of pvp games somehow survive without crafting.  99% of posters who suggest vibrant dynamic economies have never implemented them anywhere and have zero clue how hard (almost impossible) it is. 100 people teams were not able to do it, demanding vibrant economies from a team with 1 programmer is more than puzzling.

Crafting was added by player suggestions (players did not want to capture ships and wanted to build them), it was always advertised as basic (even in steam greenlight), you got what we advertised, your dreams about HMS POTENTIAL, will always break on the iron broadsides of USS REALITY.

[Swedish Berserker]

7 hours ago, Comrade FrosT said:

Let us contemplate Sekiro whining for it but I'm sure this is a step in the right direction. They probably want to make crafting more convenient now with the DLC spam happening.

At least that is my hope, and everyone should hope for the same, instead of crying to keep the old system, because it's clearly not working and after Redoutable release I stopped crafting completely apart from a couple of ingers and a couple of Bucentaures and Snows for PBs. Let's be honest, crafting is pretty much dead, getting it for reals will revive it as the bottleneck was the amount of Doubs required.

No wonder stuff like that comes from the No1 DLC Spamming clan in the game lol! 

Crafting is not dead just becouse you guys are to afraid to sail crafter ships! 

The "amount of dubs" lol first rate Kosts what? 10k dubs? That's one day PVPing so it nothing lol! 

 

[Swedish Berserker]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Often people have imaginary solutions to real problems due to lack of experience or because they seen it working somewhere else (without full understanding why it works somewhere else)..  Intellect without experience can bring more harm than good. crafting is not good in 99% of MMOs and lots of pvp games somehow survive without crafting.  99% of posters who suggest vibrant dynamic economies have never implemented them anywhere and have zero clue how hard (almost impossible) it is. 100 people teams were not able to do it, demanding vibrant economies from a team with 1 programmer is more than puzzling.

Crafting was added by player suggestions (players did not want to capture ships and wanted to build them), it was always advertised as basic (even in steam greenlight), you got what we advertised, your dreams about HMS POTENTIAL, will always break on the iron broadsides of USS REALITY.

To be honest there is nothing wrong with the system now I never heard anyone complain about Dibloon system lol! To be honest for me it seems like you try to kill the game so u don't have to spend more resorces into development!

No offense, just saying 

First u kill the de reuyter and demant good reviews for it! Then the Flag system and the new wood types even though majority even wants Seasoned woods out of the game! 

No it's not fake news there was a poll for it! 

The last announcements had all negative feedback but you don't care! 

Playerbase has dropped dramatically you don't care! 

Even after the Patch Playerbase was still low but sure why not drop the next bomb! 

 

As I stayed no offense! Just worried about the future of the game! 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Swedish Berserker

[BoomBox]

1 hour ago, Swedish Berserker said:

To be honest there is nothing wrong with the system now I never heard anyone complain about Dibloon system lol! To be honest for me it seems like you try to kill the game so u don't have to spend more resorces into development!

No offense, just saying 

First u kill the de reuyter and demant good reviews for it! Then the Flag system and the new wood types even though majority even wants Seasoned woods out of the game! 

No it's not fake news there was a poll for it! 

The last announcements had all negative feedback but you don't care! 

Playerbase has dropped dramatically you don't care! 

Even after the Patch Playerbase was still low but sure why not drop the next bomb! 

 

As I stayed no offense! Just worried about the future of the game! 

 

oh there was complaining about the dub system when it was first put in to the game. To have more than one currency is not really needed.

 

the killing of the de reuyter and the following demand for good reviews was communication which was unfortunate BUT i gotta say i like the direct way admin communcates , i'd rather have someone saying what he thinks instead of hideing it behind empty phrases. i know i am alone with that.

to be honest , all changes have mostely been discussed in the past and it didnt work. we all , me included , wine about changes , in the past that lead to things not being implamented which would've really done the game good. so basically i say good job admin , go on

the game is a niche game . expensive as it is and time consuming. i don't think the player base just dropped because of the patch .

one other thing . they're going to release a cheaper version of the game . all for that , i had my 300 $ of fun over 3-4 years   , game , alts , dlc's , most likely spent much more. all they're doing now is simplifying the game , which is not bad and rigging it for a broader spectrum of players . also not bad. the game has come a far way , crafting , open world , eco , was not plan at the beginnign , if i remeber the forums right. it's a battle game , with a little eco and crafting which is cool. i know everyone likes complex stuff but lets face it , no eco can be perfect in a game.

just my opinion and no offense to Swedish Berserker

[Lukas97Austria]

I am fine with this. I do have from pvp dubloons but whenever I asked for a ship they all wanted reals instead of poods or dubloons. So for me it doesn't change alot. 

 

The question would be if they increase the reals for pvp combat. 

But let's test it first   we will see what's happening. I guess not that much 95% will still remain sailing dlc ships 

[van stiermarken]

2 hours ago, admin said:

Often people have imaginary solutions to real problems due to lack of experience or because they seen it working somewhere else (without full understanding why it works somewhere else).. Advice based on Intellect without experience can bring more harm than good. 

crafting is not good in 99% of MMOs and lots of pvp games somehow survive without crafting.  99% of posters who suggest vibrant dynamic economies have never implemented them anywhere and have zero clue how hard (almost impossible) it is. 100 people teams were not able to do it, demanding vibrant economies from a team with 1 programmer is more than puzzling.

Crafting was added by player suggestions (players did not want to capture ships and wanted to build them), it was always advertised as basic (even in steam greenlight), you got what we advertised, your dreams about HMS POTENTIAL, will always break on the iron broadsides of USS REALITY.

just only some questions to this:

so we can expect that crafting will be removed (sooner or later) from this game?

why don't we switch back to the old crafting system we had already (you know where we had to organize a lot of stuff before we could build a ship)?

that means (based on your written words) that we get a more PvP/RvR styled game?
then you must definitely change something regarding this (atm it's more the boring with all those upgrades). or am I wrong here?

I (personally) don't think that we need a vibrant dynamic economic system but we need a economic system ( and if it is only a simple one), or am I also wrong here?

[Lukas97Austria]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

NA was a great game about loss and meaningfull battles for me with RvR based on social and mechanical skill (numbers and ability to win) thats why I put 5k hours into it

Now its just a game about battles with a terrible matchmaking system. These games dont even hit the 100h mark for me mostly

So while players dislike the crafting itself the thing is what is behind the crafting. Atleast for me and the already silent playerbase that doesnt check the forum anymore.

Well atleast you and some silent players check sometimes the forum. Means you maybe wait until a update fits your "dreams" and you come back playing? 

It's sad when some veterans quit the game. Atleast In my opinion. 

[Raxius]

@admin crafting needs to stay i dont really care how easy / hard it is to craft.. players buy dlc whether crafting is easy or not. I think you have two possibilities.

1) make craft hard - you reduce pvp and selection of ships seen by players on OW. 

2) make crafting somewhat easy and you should see a healthy playerbase with lots of PvP.

 

you must understand not everyone has hours upon hours to play and others do... so you end up with casual players not looking so much at craft system or if they do they dont want to risk their nicely crafted 1st rate.

Those that have many hours will group with others who have many hours and pvp in crafted ships all day.

if you're looking for a healthy playerbase then its obvious you need to make crafting easier or less time consuming..

or keep crafting exactly how it is now re-introduce the lobby system where we could do "fleet practice" iv'e heard so many complaints about that being removed with no reasons provided by admin.

if players can organise pvp without the fear of losing a ship then you are "creating content" and you will also allow newer players to train and practice ready for the RvR / OW PvP system... please care for your players,  the game is good you just need to stop flip-flopping.

(edit) the fleet practice lobby system should always be without any rewards - the reward is practice - clans used to use the system to teach newer players joining their fleet so your not taking completely new players into a steep learning curve pb against veterans it was a nice bridge-builder to introduce new players to RvR and OW pvp as the sailing mechanics and hit boxes on ships make for an extreme steep learning curve, fleet practice gives clan leaders and nations a chance to teach new players and prevents them from being attacked in first 10 mins on pvp server and quitting the game).

if you want a healthy game with good numbers then the new players should be high priority and use the experienced players looking to bolster their numbers as a resource happy to teach the newer players.

and this comment is not about intellect @admin this is coming from experience on naval action with around 8,000 + hours.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Raxius

[Never]

3 hours ago, admin said:

Often people have imaginary solutions to real problems due to lack of experience or because they seen it working somewhere else (without full understanding why it works somewhere else).. Advice based on Intellect without experience can bring more harm than good. 

crafting is not good in 99% of MMOs and lots of pvp games somehow survive without crafting.  99% of posters who suggest vibrant dynamic economies have never implemented them anywhere and have zero clue how hard (almost impossible) it is. 100 people teams were not able to do it, demanding vibrant economies from a team with 1 programmer is more than puzzling.

Crafting was added by player suggestions (players did not want to capture ships and wanted to build them), it was always advertised as basic (even in steam greenlight), you got what we advertised, your dreams about HMS POTENTIAL, will always break on the iron broadsides of USS REALITY.

If that's so please tell us how removing the old crafting system we had 1-2 years ago has improved the game? Cause I don't see the advantages we gained from having taken that off the game. We already had a good and very nice crafting system that was dynamic, you created it already and it was pretty damn good. I honestly don't understand why it was removed for an overly simple system that hasn't really made anything better in the long run. 

Reality as you put it didn't cause that system to fail, it seems more like the need to try to constantly change things about the game that are working just fine. Instead why not add new content rather than re-do content already in the game over and over and over. 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Never

[Poryv]

Guys, stop it,

why would anyone complain about less grind in a multiplayer game?

[Hethwill]

3 hours ago, admin said:

Often people have imaginary solutions to real problems due to lack of experience or because they seen it working somewhere else (without full understanding why it works somewhere else).. Advice based on Intellect without experience can bring more harm than good. 

crafting is not good in 99% of MMOs and lots of pvp games somehow survive without crafting.  99% of posters who suggest vibrant dynamic economies have never implemented them anywhere and have zero clue how hard (almost impossible) it is. 100 people teams were not able to do it, demanding vibrant economies from a team with 1 programmer is more than puzzling.

Crafting was added by player suggestions (players did not want to capture ships and wanted to build them), it was always advertised as basic (even in steam greenlight), you got what we advertised, your dreams about HMS POTENTIAL, will always break on the iron broadsides of USS REALITY.

You have a point.

This was tested, thoroughly during the patch 17 of testing aka hardcore patch and found wanting. Economy was vibrant and needed. Added a terrific need for every nation, every clan, every player to produce, transport and to craft all for ships. Many did dislike it a lot. Many I do read now wanting a vibrant and live economy. So I am at a loss.

But on another point of view the same approach to "crafting" mechanics may be used by other historical mmos in different ways. There's no crafting but there's a automated umpire resolution of supply chains for example. Not saying it is applicable to NA, it is not and definitely not at this stage. For example ww2ol. Players do not craft or anything but supply mechanics are there. Same with big arena games ( granted, not mmo ) that rely on supply. 

We are over that period now. Less clicks in crafting was asked for and when patch hit the majority did praise it when middleware parts were removed. No more carriages, no more knees.

On the overall simulation field it left a void at the strategic level of asymmetric wars, the small surviving by raiding the big and managing to deny and at the same time use the raided good to build their own needed veffels.

It all became more individualistic, in the sense that any one single player can produce, by dlc or fast craft,a ship and get out to PvP, which is the ultimate objective of War Server.

I am not entire pleased with the lessened and more diluted simulation of the "naval life in the grand age of sail" but I trust and hope your plans work out.

For my part, being in no clan and surviving only on what I loot - and it includes selling doubloons at 300 reals each - it provides me with steady income. Of note: never ever ever in all my time in naval action had i so much money and so many ships than now. And I did not change my gameplay, ever.

In sum, access to combat and organized combat is much easier. There's no more excuses not to. Be it a uber ship, be it a average ship. Many "pros" will only sail the best of the best builds. Other pros will sail anything. Some talk a lot, others keep fighting and having fun.

I'm sad we lost the hardcore mode, but community asked for ease of access. Does removal of doubloons from crafting mean more mechanics being designed or is it just another measure of ease of access ?

If that is so I hope it works and that you are right and people are more engaged in combat and Conquest, for after being "robbed" of my most treasured patch due to "clamour of too hard" I now hear the same voices that were against it calling for "meaningful". I guess it is only meaningful when it suits them.

 

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

1 hour ago, RepairyMcRepairous said:

At least I don't have to waste time looting ships now,

Now with missions being the only income from pvp, I just need to sink 10 noobs to pay for half of my ship xd

Lol

a pity it takes you so long to sink 10 noobs, right? 😛

[Isaac J Smith]

Here's a solution to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. The reality - it will never happen.

Remove doubloons from crafting, require doubloons to redeem a DLC ship. Now doubloons still have a value for DLC spamming. DLC ships getting S woods now have a cost associated. And crafting of ships/selling ships (of all rates) becomes viable again.

EDIT: In case it wasn't clear enough, I'm not being serious here.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Isaac J Smith

[Raxius]

5 minutes ago, Isaac J Smith said:

Here's a solution to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. The reality - it will never happen.

Remove doubloons from crafting, require doubloons to redeem a DLC ship. Now doubloons still have a value for DLC spamming. DLC ships getting S woods now have a cost associated. And crafting of ships/selling ships (of all rates) becomes viable again.

your crazy.. pay real money to then need to grind to redeem??? dude get some sleep... you need rest my friend