Doubloons in shipbuilding

[Jan van Santen]

I am the second example of doing the old crafting system on my own (1 man clan).

Due to the than fedex system it was perfectly possible. I hit max crafting before I had max rank. 

For those not playing than: you could fedex a certain amount of cargo at a cost between free ports than.

So players would ship the precursor parts from a free port near them to the free port next to my shipyard.

Today you dump  raw materials into the rng grinder =  no immersion.

In the old days ship building was an adventure which required planning, which really created coop and immersion..and which rewarded you with a ship you had planned and worked for.

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

10 minutes ago, Jan van Santen said:

I am the second example of doing the old crafting system on my own (1 man clan).

Due to the than fedex system it was perfectly possible. I hit max crafting before I had max rank. 

For those not playing than: you could fedex a certain amount of cargo at a cost between free ports than.

So players would ship the precursor parts from a free port near them to the free port next to my shipyard.

Today you dump  raw materials into the rng grinder =  no immersion.

In the old days ship building was an adventure which required planning, which really created coop and immersion..and which rewarded you with a ship you had planned and worked for.

Very good description! I remember all too good when my first Aggy was finished in Kingston. After a pretty short but intensive playtime, still much more noob than nowadays, it gave the feeling of having built something for real. Randomness in quaility I do not mind, guessing that back in the day there always has been a little element of surprise when building a sea-going vessel. Imagine it´d be implemented in a similar way to the game again!

[HamBlower]

As we had the old crafting system people were whining about the lot of items that had to build before you‘re able to finally craft the ship 

now people are whining they want the old system back („Do you know in former times, everything was better🤓). 
Hey Admin people like whining!

So punish them 🥊

[admin]

20 hours ago, rediii said:

Just scrap the whole crafting and OW and focus on battles everyone likes that we saw that in naval action legends!

Oh wait ...

Thats not going to work.

We already mentioned it in the Russian forum long time ago. Players want legends but in the open world. Players want open world, but with ability to skip (due to kids, families, limited time).  I had 2 kids since the project launched, I enjoy pvp a lot more now as i can just click a button, But i still dont see the other side of lake maracaibo first time in any caribbean game, and i cant get that feeling anywhere.

Players want the best of both. Legends lacked the feeling of grandness and vastness and emptiness that accentuates excitement of the battle. Legends is dead because it was just another lobby shooter. there is only one NA and there is nothing like that.

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

4 minutes ago, HamBlower said:

As we had the old crafting system people were whining about the lot of items that had to build before you‘re able to finally craft the ship 

now people are whining they want the old system back („Do you know in former times, everything was better🤓). 
Hey Admin people like whining!

So punish them 🥊

Obviously not the same people, so nothing for you... to whine about.

[admin]

1 hour ago, Sir Max Magic said:

Many thanks for grabbing this old screenshot  

I LOVED it !

When i came to NA and dived into crafting, such a system was all i was expecting from an Open World Sandbox MMO

Sounded near perfect to me and i never understood why it was replaced for a watered down, randomized system...  

 

This is an example of the feature that was removed by a committee 

We dont do that anymore. Improved crafting might come back, maybe not here, but definitely in Sea Legends.

 

BUT.. 
if you look closely half of that feature is fake. Because nobody ever build ships that were not good quality. In reality as a ship builder you only control half of the production quality and half of the quality depends on drunkedness of the carpenters.

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

28 minutes ago, HamBlower said:

As we had the old crafting system people were whining about the lot of items that had to build before you‘re able to finally craft the ship 

now people are whining they want the old system back („Do you know in former times, everything was better🤓). 
Hey Admin people like whining!

So punish them 🥊

It´s been a fine conversation about a crafting-system that apparentely was enjoyable for some of the players... just until an idiot comes along with a bullshit-comment. thank you very much

Edited June 3, 2020 by Genevieve Malfleurs

[z4ys]

16 minutes ago, admin said:

This is an example of the feature that was removed by a committee 

We dont do that anymore. Improved crafting might come back, maybe not here, but definitely in Sea Legends.

 

BUT.. 
if you look closely half of that feature is fake. Because nobody ever build ships that were not good quality. In reality as a ship builder you only control half of the production quality and half of the quality depends on drunkedness of the carpenters.

I guess what many are what i am missing is a feeling - the engagement factor not the crafting itself. TBH it was a lot of clicks to craft a ship and it was inconvenient. But as some pointed out as new player even you without any blueprints money resources you could do something. help your clan by offering your lh so the mastershipwright could build ships or you could earn some gold by offering your lh as freelancer or even be a scammer. On top you could even earn some crafting xp. It was a win win for all sides. Crafting nowdays feels cold without any real player to player interaction and a solo activity.

Edited June 3, 2020 by z4ys

[Jan van Santen]

5 minutes ago, admin said:

. In reality as a ship builder you only control half of the production quality and half of the quality depends on drunkedness of the carpenters.

You never built a house it seems....

To quote Lenin: Trust is good, but control is better...

Should you ever build a house, here is how you ensure quality: You (as in yourself, not the architect, supervisor...whatever delegate)  go and control everything down to the last inch every evenning after the workmen have gone, you take the supervisor along 

If anything is not 100% as planned...have it removed and redone and since its the workmens/supervisors fault, they wont get paid for the extra work. You will notice an education process

After that has started, you crank out the boni for the workmen...but never stop controlling.

This is how you build quality as planned.

And this is how good ships were built, to. It's no wonder that certain shipwrights/shipyards had a record to build constantly better ships than others. And this is also why an rng has only very limited place in crafting.

[SeaBrig]

26 minutes ago, admin said:

BUT.. 

if you look closely half of that feature is fake. Because nobody ever build ships that were not good quality. In reality as a ship builder you only control half of the production quality and half of the quality depends on drunkedness of the carpenters.

no it wasnt, half of those features were businesses for players of lower ranks that wanted to make some money and help their nation, and maybe i was drunk when i made a fir mahogany 3rd rate 😆

[Suppenkelle]

51 minutes ago, admin said:

 Because nobody ever build ships that were not good quality. In reality as a ship builder you only control half of the production quality and half of the quality depends on drunkedness of the carpenters.

As a (semi-professional) builder of sail raicing boats and as a former CFO of one of Germany's largest shipowning companies I can assure you: quality in ship building is mainly a function of the amount of money dedicated to it. Sober carpenters are more expensive than drunken ones. The quality and the thoroughness of your crew of supervisors is ensured by ... money. The quality of the design and of the materials used:... money. A build in high quality needs more attention to detail and therefore more time ... money.

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

33 minutes ago, Suppenkelle said:

As a (semi-professional) builder of sail raicing boats and as a former CFO of one of Germany's largest shipowning companies I can assure you: quality in ship building is mainly a function of the amount of money dedicated to it. Sober carpenters are more expensive than drunken ones. The quality and the thoroughness of your crew of supervisors is ensured by ... money. The quality of the design and of the materials used:... money. A build in high quality needs more attention to detail and therefore more time ... money.

But certainly dedication (love to the project, work. Pride in one's own craftmanship, tradition) you can't buy. And such "golden hands" probably never does advertising campaigns about this, his asset...

Edited June 3, 2020 by Cetric de Cornusiac

[Jan van Santen]

5 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

But certainly dedication (love to the project, work. Pride in one's own craftmanship, tradition) you can't buy. And such "golden hands" probably never does advertising campaigns about this, his asset...

You can buy that. take this as modern example:

https://www.meyerwerft.de/en/index.jsp

They dont need to run advertising campaigns, same as in Napoleonic times: reputation in busines is better than advertising

 

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Jan van Santen

[Suppenkelle]

3 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

But certainly dedication (love to the project, work. Pride in one's own craftmanship, tradition) you can't buy.

Well, of course you can :) Dedicated workers have to make ends meet too. You knwo who is good at what he's doing, so you go ahead to recruit a team of the best... money (and some secondary things)

[mikawa]

Just throwing it into the ring:

what if we

• have the ability to choose the ship's special trim (fast, agile, cramped, rig, hull)
• remove the "very" predicates
• RNG only the crafting of blue/ purple / gold ships (3-5 upgrades)

It would give you more control over the crafting process. ATM I don't like it at all because it results in crafting many crappy ships to receive per random once in a lifetime the gold fast trinco you dreamt of - just to loose it in a gank next door ....

[erelkivtuadrater]

23 hours ago, Ronald Speirs said:

Ewww  that system was horrible also, they could just make life much easier and get more people out there having fun, kinda like POTBS just not as much off branches on items that over complicate it.

Why was it horrible? 

[Sea Fox]

5 hours ago, admin said:

Thats not going to work.

We already mentioned it in the Russian forum long time ago. Players want legends but in the open world. Players want open world, but with ability to skip (due to kids, families, limited time).  I had 2 kids since the project launched, I enjoy pvp a lot more now as i can just click a button, But i still dont see the other side of lake maracaibo first time in any caribbean game, and i cant get that feeling anywhere.

Players want the best of both. Legends lacked the feeling of grandness and vastness and emptiness that accentuates excitement of the battle. Legends is dead because it was just another lobby shooter. there is only one NA and there is nothing like that.

No comment here just sharing this because it is fact

[HachiRoku]

5 hours ago, admin said:

Thats not going to work.

We already mentioned it in the Russian forum long time ago. Players want legends but in the open world. Players want open world, but with ability to skip (due to kids, families, limited time).  I had 2 kids since the project launched, I enjoy pvp a lot more now as i can just click a button, But i still dont see the other side of lake maracaibo first time in any caribbean game, and i cant get that feeling anywhere.

Players want the best of both. Legends lacked the feeling of grandness and vastness and emptiness that accentuates excitement of the battle. Legends is dead because it was just another lobby shooter. there is only one NA and there is nothing like that.

You never bothered with legends man. Not that it matters since it was a free side project but it never worked when I played. We would join the game and not even enter the same battle etc. It was a closed alpha game. Legends required a separate store page to succeed and more development in general. 

[Random Noob]

People ran in Legends just like they do in Naval Action. They simply don't want to lose, neither in an open world or arena game.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Random Noob

[jodgi]

9 hours ago, admin said:

Improved crafting might come back, maybe not here, but definitely in Sea Legends.

I know how to curb my enthusiasm. I know Sea Legends might not get working duel, skirmish or grand battle rooms. I'll support it even without the certainty.

I'm fine with having the most insane crafting system ever devised in single player mode. I'm aware people get off on that.

But...

IF we get multiplayer stuff in Sea Legends; Single player insano crafting, gear or crew grinds can't matter in multiplayer. Please!

If there has to be grinding in the multiplayer part it's ok, all but everyone can handle grinds these days.

I desperately emplore you to keep bot- and singleplayer grinding separate from the (possible) multiplayer part.

It would be ill-advised to not include a rather large segment of players, that I represent, that you currently don't have populating the OW server.

[Macjimm]

13 hours ago, admin said:

Players want the best of both. Legends lacked the feeling of grandness and vastness and emptiness that accentuates excitement of the battle. Legends is dead because it was just another lobby shooter. there is only one NA and there is nothing like that.

I hope you always stick to your conviction and don't ruin the the "vastness".

  Seems that some players are trying to convince us that pure PvP is the answer. These players claim we have  lost, & are losing, players because PvP is not available continously without OW.   I remember when there was NO open world, there was only PvP,  arena style combat.  Before Legends.Back then there was often no players online.  The game was truly dead back then. If was fun for awhile and then the repeated combat without context just got ... boring.

[jodgi]

19 hours ago, Macjimm said:

repeated combat without context just got ... boring.

You have your thing, why argue against us having our thing?

[Macjimm]

6 hours ago, jodgi said:

You have your thing, why argue against us having our thing?

jodgi, 

I'm not arguing against having PvP.  I'm encouraging Game Labs to retain Open World. If we remove the "vastness" of open world NA loses it's "thing".  Game Labs does an amazing job of creating a feeling of long distance sailing and being at sea.

I'm also pointing out that pure PvP, without OW, did not sustain 600 players when we tried it before. (There were zero players).   I'm not sure Game Labs "thing" is making an interesting arena mode.  

Also I've always been supportive of a duel room, or an arena mode, as a separate part of NA.  I have no interest in playing that style of game, but I would encourage adding it to the game for those who enjoy it, as long as it is separate.   Sounds like a great addition to Sea Legends also.  I doubt that allowing pure PvP, as a stand-alone option, would have any effect on the base games.  I've never felt that duel rooms would pull players away from NA.  They are such different types of gameplay.

[jodgi]

On 6/5/2020 at 5:58 AM, Macjimm said:

I've never felt that duel rooms would pull players away from NA.  They are such different types of gameplay.

I too assumed duel rooms wouldn't be a problem for OW attendance. It was taken away, though.

Towards the end Rakers did duel rooms almost exclusively, did too many do the same?

[PG Monkey]

will we still need doubloons to upgrade the shipyard?