New RVR Mechanics - Descriptions and feedback

[Aquillas]

Help needed from players for updating the User Guide:

6 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

The next revision should include:

• Description of the wind boost (forgotten in previous revision)
• Description of new woods (see https://na-map.netlify.com), if finalized.
• Description of the new RVR mechanics.
• Description of the new Home Defense Fleet drops (Flag)

Help needed from players!

Please post screen shots or videos about the new game mechanics. If posted here, this means Implicit authorization to use it in the Naval Action Guide.

• Flags,
• Home Defense Fleets,
• New hostility,
• New instantaneous transport of the attacker fleet to the Port Battle (item screenshot, price, use, etc.)

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Aquillas

[Malcolm3]

19 minutes ago, admin said:

+ Sinking HDF fleets is very dangerous, (unlike sinking them in hostility missions)

And here you said other things:

Quote

You destroy privateer fleets at your leasure when you want...

Isn't there some contradiction?

Also the question - how many Flags you get from HDF? Just one for a fleet, or one for the ship you looted (with some random like with the chests)? And how is defined the ownership of this flag?

Edited May 28, 2020 by Malcolm3

[Dre De Cruz]

Teleportation and cloaking devices, starting to sound like star trek for the 18th century, sorry just not liking it at all, the excitement of sailing to a pb and the possibility of being intercepted was a great part of the game and while i understand that for smaller nations it made pb difficult and always favoured the largest nation[ Russia] i dont like this teleport and invicibility solution yuk

[Archaos]

What about nations that do not have HDF's? How do we get flags for attacking those nations? I know you said that flags would also drop from certain other PvP actions but this puts the nations with capitals at a disadvantage. I thought nations without capitals were supposed to be the hardcore nations, but more and more it seems they are becoming the easy nations.

Will be interesting to see how the patch works out, hopefully it will slow down RvR a bit and prevent burnout that we have seen. The port development appears nice but as others have said it may not be worth it if the port can easily be captured.

If a further developed port is captured does it still retain the additional expansion or is this lost? If it keeps the expansion then I guess eventually all ports will eventually be upgraded to max over time.

[Badet]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Flag will be granted by Admiralty for reduction or destruction of Home Defense Fleets and will drop in HDF holds.

So instead of fighting NPCs to make a Port Battle, we have to fight NPCs to make a Port Battle? 

Fair enough

[Felix Victor]

1 hour ago, admin said:

locations that is used by NPC Raiders (points 2 or 3 on Felix's map)

lol

I have just removed the raid points with the recent update. Will put them back in asap.

[admin]

25 minutes ago, Archaos said:

What about nations that do not have HDF's? How do we get flags for attacking those nations? I know you said that flags would also drop from certain other PvP actions but this puts the nations with capitals at a disadvantage. I thought nations without capitals were supposed to be the hardcore nations, but more and more it seems they are becoming the easy nations.

Will be interesting to see how the patch works out, hopefully it will slow down RvR a bit and prevent burnout that we have seen. The port development appears nice but as others have said it may not be worth it if the port can easily be captured.

If a further developed port is captured does it still retain the additional expansion or is this lost? If it keeps the expansion then I guess eventually all ports will eventually be upgraded to max over time.

Flags are not nation based. Every nation is an enemy. 
Additional points developed also drop after capture, 1 level per loss.

[mexicanbatman]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Ask the exploiters.
We wanted a method of delivery that has zero chance of exploiting. You cannot negotiate with Home Defence Fleets
+ Sinking HDF fleets is very dangerous, (unlike sinking them in hostility missions)

fair

[Teutonic]

22 minutes ago, rediii said:

What did flags actually change? except of:

Pve before a pb can now be days before a pb

Easy multiflips

Noshows will still happen, maybe even more now because ports can be flipped by a single dude

List probably continues

 

The amount of time you put into flags could have been gone to something else because hosti was not liked due to single shot tagging.

Sorry but you even took the edge of the defender away (ai help)

I read the "new flag system." and compared to the complaints we've had about the current hostility missions.

and honestly....nothing changed. frankly, I don't agree with the new mechanic and there is no need to RvR.

[Ronald Speirs]

i see more workload on the weaker nations to just try particpate in RvR, now they have to get their smaller group to go attack HDF and then they attack a nation who has a better PB fleet, lose and restart process multiple times, Stronger PB nations do 1 HDF go attack a weaker PB nation then win win win and make it so hard for weaker nations to keep up, systems flawed from the beginning like many others, wont take long for it to be thrown out because its not balanced.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Ronald Speirs

[admin]

45 minutes ago, rediii said:

What did flags actually change? except of:

 

Actually a lot changed

Starting and attack now requires real effort (not click of the button).
Cant be bought or passed to others.
Сant be abused by friends, alts, and other shit behaviour
There is no hiding when raising hostility (you are in the open - clearly identified).
You cannot hide in missions and hide behind sword stacking.
The list can go on.
But the main point is numbers. You no longer need numbers to attack, or defend.
Its easier for the attacker now yes. Attack strong nations. Shake their nest.

 Perhaps you dont see it because you are just tired from the game. Just look at the hours you played, say thank you and go on long vacation.

[admin]

1 hour ago, Ronald Speirs said:

i see more workload on the weaker nations to just try particpate in RvR, now they have to get their smaller group to go attack HDF and then they attack a nation who has a better PB fleet, lose and restart process multiple times, Stronger PB nations do 1 HDF go attack a weaker PB nation then win win win and make it so hard for weaker nations to keep up, systems flawed from the beginning like many others, wont take long for it to be thrown out because its not balanced.

This was always and will be always the strong point of the game. Weak nations lose and leave. . Because they cannot field the numbers.

But now whats changing. Numbers become less important. Place the flag (in instance 25v25). Have a port battle 25v25. Skill will grow faster and painful initially later it will become 10x better. Because its easier to have 25 skilled players than to have 200 player screen. 

People who complain - are those who relied on the numbers. Real pros see that 25 is all what you need in the nation now.
Why invest 1250 wood chests into a port when you can just take it from Russia now. 


That's the goal basically. Remove screen, add the skill back.

[Louis Garneray]

Let's hope that Russia (in game nation) our overlord will let us test the new system.
If I understand we will be able to start testing the new system tomorrow?

[Hethwill]

Take Nassau !

[Ronald Speirs]

Yes Real pros, nations can have real pros, then those pros in nation use prolific forger to change nation and then go attack the nation who lost pros etc, PF ruined alot of gentleman gaming and brought more toxicity to this game, yes it did stop a problem in the old turn pirate change nation situation now its a different kettle of fish, so yes weaker nations who have had PF screw them over we lucky enough to have 200 able captains/ noobs prepared to defend their ports and screen out PB fleets, so is the new mechanic allowing multiple flags to attack the same port to who ever lands it? so is their screening to stop the flag now and will their still be alt tagging to stop the defender from entering the new 30 minute kill flag missions? i dont know the infromation provided doesnt print much of a picture to prevent the things u say i created this system to stop, all it did was allow the nations with better PB fleets a better chance to screen out the actual flag defenders then rape the PB with a teleport mechanics from the information u have provided.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Ronald Speirs

[Sir Max Magic]

1 hour ago, admin said:

But now whats changing. Numbers become less important. Place the flag (in instance 25v25). Have a port battle 25v25. Skill will grow faster and painful initially later it will become 10x better. Because its easier to have 25 skilled players than to have 200 player screen. 

...but thats exactly what most people are complaining for !

Maybe you should rename it like Naval Action for the chosen few...

...because now, like you pointed out, thats exactly whats needed for: 25 VERY experienced and skilled players ( and not more)

The rest is only here to support those Elite Players with woods, ships and everything else they need to fight... and watching the show from the sideline

 

really great game design  

 

I dont get what you think is so bad in a MMO when 200 players and more are involved in a very important PB like the fight for Belize ???

 

Or is EVE Online, which seems to be your ultimate ideal, capping the numbers for their battles artificially ?

No, this game is advertised for thousands of players fighting for galactic domination...up to now, we had developed something similar here (with msaller numbers)...now you destroyed it

Edited May 28, 2020 by Sir Max Magic

[Frosty]

2 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Take Nassau !

If you played the game you would know Nassau is uncapturable... now I have my doubts.  

Edited May 28, 2020 by Comrade FrosT

[SnovaZdorowa]

@admin

Just say me please: Is it possible to flip port solo on Lynx?

[Farrago]

I don’t completely understand all the mechanics yet, but @admin please consider ensuring that the action that sets a shallow water pb require using shallow water ships.

[Hethwill]

1 hour ago, Comrade FrosT said:

If you played the game you knew Nassau is uncapturable... now I have my doubts.  

Take Nassau.

[Tiedemann]

Sounds good, looking forward to test this. Screeners are now interceptors, it is just better!  

[Cap Trujis]

Hace 8 horas, Sir Max Magic dijo:

... pero eso es exactamente lo que la mayoría de la gente se queja!

Tal vez deberías renombrarlo como Acción Naval para los pocos elegidos ...

... porque ahora, como se indica, eso es exactamente lo que se necesita para: 25 jugadores MUY experimentados y hábiles (y no más)

El resto solo está aquí para apoyar a esos jugadores Elite con bosques, barcos y todo lo que necesitan para luchar ... y ver el espectáculo desde la barrera.

 

diseño de juego realmente genial  

 

No entiendo lo que crees que es tan malo en un MMO cuando 200 jugadores y más están involucrados en un PP muy importante como la lucha por Belice.

 

¿O es EVE Online, que parece ser tu ideal ideal, que limita los números de sus batallas artificialmente?

No, este juego se anuncia para millas de jugadores que luchan por la dominación galáctica ... hasta ahora, habíamos desarrollado algo similar aquí (con números msaller) ... ahora lo destruiste

Belize was incredible for you, for the Spaniards it was 4 hours in front of the computer cause the British had 3 screenfleets and 1 Russian, dont see only your side, get in the place of which has no numbers.

[BigWilk]

For 1 point!? This is another update that benefits Russia if your in a smaller nation (all the other nations) collecting that many resources for a "port development" will take a long time.

There needs to be some sorta RvR balance thought about with these updates.

If your in a nation that owns more ports the "port development" upgrade should cost you more if your in a naiton with less ports the port development should cost you less or you end up in a situation where you spent ages investing in a port as a small nation and have a higher risk of losing it to a teleporting enemy fleet.

Basic reasources should also cost you alot more to collect. if your in Russia the reasources to build a ship should cost you hundreds of times more to collect compared to a player building a ship in China for example.

..or you could just get rid of port bonuses as it really disadvantages new players and grinding reasoruces for the investment on top of a really really high price for ship yards is not a fun part of the game.

[Daxav]

14 hours ago, admin said:

This was always and will be always the strong point of the game. Weak nations lose and leave. . Because they cannot field the numbers.

But now whats changing. Numbers become less important. Place the flag (in instance 25v25). Have a port battle 25v25. Skill will grow faster and painful initially later it will become 10x better. Because its easier to have 25 skilled players than to have 200 player screen. 

People who complain - are those who relied on the numbers. Real pros see that 25 is all what you need in the nation now.
Why invest 1250 wood chests into a port when you can just take it from Russia now. 


That's the goal basically. Remove screen, add the skill back.

I do see the point. @admin seems to have addressed the bad side of screening. That is, to be plain, when simply because of numbers, one clan/faction can interfere with RvR in a game-destructive way. 
I suppose the interception of the flag carrier somehow might take the place of screening, although it will be a spur of the moment thing. 
It seems that several people here think that he great benefit of screening has not been kept by the new mechanics. That is, that everyone may participate, contrary to an elite of 25 players doing the entire RvR mechanic. This seems to be true, but only if there are constantly 25+ players available for the RvR mechanic. For small factions this is not true I think. Therefore, the elite thing may be a bigger problem for those playing in large factions. Maybe it works as an incentive to move to smaller factions? 
That being said, I wonder, if in a perfectly balanced faction system, with all factions having sufficient players for RvR, how are we to stop the elite players doing everything... I think, let’s try and see.

on the other hand, I am not yet convinced that this new mechanic will actually have a balancing effect. It feels like this is not really a negative feedback (nothing becomes more difficult for the superpowers), but a bottleneck, which, agreed does take  some advantage of unbalanced player numbers. 
I do like @admin challenge...let’s just go and attack Russia now.

[Beeekonda]

17 hours ago, admin said:

 

 

Key rules

1. Flag will be granted by Admiralty for reduction or destruction of Home Defense Fleets and will drop in HDF holds. Flag will also drop sometimes from certain PVP action. Admiralty has no desire to sell the flag or exchange it for items. Only destruction of enemy defenses in dangerous waters will grant the permit to attack land.

1. I assume flags are not bound to HDF nation? I.E. I can farm Spanish HDF to get the flag and then attack US or Russian port? 

2. Is it tradable? Can sell it?

Quote

• Captain with a flag must join this mission and stay alive (survive) in it for Y (currently 30) minutes. 
• The battle instance will live 30 mins. If defenders wont join within 15 mins the battle will immediately end and port battle will be set up
• If defenders join they will have 30 mins to sink the flag carrier.

1. Can we join attacking side (same nation ofc)? How many enemies can join defending side? Clan alliance rules applied? 

2/3. Does the 30 min timer start immediatly or is it 15 min for defenders to join + 30 min to sink attacker(s) (45 min total)?

4. If attackers are multiple, do defenders need to sink everyone of them or just flag carrier?

 

PS not testing it myself, im no PVE scrub. Still yet to build (s) wood ship

Edited May 29, 2020 by Beeekonda