Gun change January 14

[Yettie]

List of ships that changed and decks, left - old, right - new

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1frzTMxV3TrvlYfA6K3h0zfCCWbuk3kekKI1eYc0MY8U/edit#gid=1751816059

[Despe]

21 minutes ago, Yettie said:

List of ships that changed and decks, left - old, right - new

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1frzTMxV3TrvlYfA6K3h0zfCCWbuk3kekKI1eYc0MY8U/edit#gid=1751816059

oh, thx yetie

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

Why some receive 9/42 while some gets the more usual 9/32 and others have 6/32 ?

larger carro on snow lol ^^

 

Thx for the list !

 

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Baptiste Gallouédec

[Teutonic]

shallow water battles just got even deadlier. They already were pretty devastating and demasting is crazy. 

The fact that Snows can mount 32 pd carros is actually frightening. I wouldn't be surprised if a 1v1 snow vs snow fight ends with only 1 broadside... should it be this way?

Edited January 16, 2020 by Teutonic

[Gregory Rainsborough]

Just now, Teutonic said:

The fact that Snows can mount 32 pd carros is actually frightening.

Indeed  

[Angus MacDuff]

Just now, Teutonic said:

shallow water battles just got even deadlier. They already were pretty devastating and demasting is crazy. 

The fact that Snows can mount 32 pd carros is actually frightening.

It sucks.  there will be swarms of Snows (like piranha) assaulting everything that moves.

[Never]

Awful changes. 🤮

But thank you Yettie for the info. 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Never

[erelkivtuadrater]

@admin so we can just remove cannons soon or? whats the point with them really? Im really struggling to find any reason with this. I wont complain, ill just sail snow and wreck big ships with 32pd carronades, but 32pd carronade has allmost equal penetration vs 9pd on 250m and those are primarly used in shallows. Considering people angle there is no rarely worth using longs and fighting a carronade ship from distance.

Can you help me connect the dots in this matter?

Edited January 16, 2020 by erelkivtuadrater

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

1 hour ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

@admin so we can just remove cannons soon or? whats the point with them really? Im really struggling to find any reason with this.

If i recall well, admin said carronades were historically superior so they will not balance them in game.

Fact is this make carronade the golden gun, while it remain a common craftable item without permit or limited access while historically this technology was not that common.

[erelkivtuadrater]

13 minutes ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

If i recall well, admin said carronades were historically superior so they will not balance them in game.

Fact is this make carronade the golden gun, while it remain a common craftable item without permit or limited access while historically this technology was not that common.

while all you say is true, it was still not as common to have them onboard all ships, because as you say the technology wasnt that common. I also know the fact that it got undeserved critics of being inaccurate, but that was because the guncrew didnt knew how the elevation worked compared to cannons, so they aimed it as a cannon, hence why the shot went out much  higher then you would expect and also inaccurate in that era.

but if they want to do A they need to do B.  If they want it this way they might aswell make the carronades dropable from ships only as we have with all the other guns and make only long cannons craftable. This would create a logical a much better gameplay for  everyone and it would also lean towards High risk = High reward gameplay

[Sea Archer]

The problem in the game is that ships speed is much too high compared to reloading guns, so that the advantages of medium or long guns don't show as it would be historically correct. 

Fast ships with carronades are hard to beat, if they are faster than you, nearly impossible. 

When the carronade ships become that superior in firepower, they should at least be slower than the other ships, since the low range is no real disadvantage due to the high ships speed.

[Never]

Carro meta is boring as hello kitty. 

[Earl of Grey]

Snow is really op now ... but yeah i know ... 

[Koveras]

So the fantasy ship that should capsize whenever she leaves port, which is already the most OP ship in her class and ofc not a permit ship, just got 32pds carros......

*slow clap*

*really slow clap*

*hands hardly meeting eachother in dumbfounded disbelief*

*slow facepalm when everyone realize that we need to adjust the damagemodel*

[The Geth]

As a carro Prince main, this change is pretty retarded, ngl. Why the hello kitty can I only mount 24pd carros when the Snow gets 32s? The entirety of my armament is now thoroughly outclassed by a ship of roughly the same size and displacement. Why bother using the Niagara with 32pd carros, for that matter? Why bother using it at all? You can just whirl in place with a Snow, outturning literally everything and somehow simultaneously outgunning every 6th rate.

@admin, @Ink... an explanation is in order. Please, enlighten us.

Edited January 19, 2020 by The Geth
Edited to reflect Prince buff of 24pd carros. Hooray for utter irrelevance!

[Sea Archer]

Except for the Pavel, I thought the ships somehow balanced, so why was it changed?

[LeBoiteux]

2 hours ago, The Geth said:

As a carro Prince main, this change is pretty retarded, ngl. Why the hello kitty can I only mount 24pd carros

IRL Prince had only 2x6-pdr (guns) + 16x12-pdr (carro). Be happy with 20x 24-pdr carros 😉

Edited January 19, 2020 by LeBoiteux

[The Geth]

39 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

IRL Prince had only 2x6-pdr (guns) + 16x12-pdr (carro). Be happy with 20x 24-pdr carros 😉

I heard quite differently, supposedly she at one point had a mix of 9pd and 12pd cannon and 12pd carros. In either case, the Snow is now far from realistically powerful; why should the Prince be bound by semi-historical limits?

[LeBoiteux]

19 minutes ago, The Geth said:

I heard quite differently

Read, don't 'hear'.

19 minutes ago, The Geth said:

why should the Prince be bound by semi-historical limits?

Indeed... 🙂

Edited January 19, 2020 by LeBoiteux

[Thonys]

look at penetration of the carro`s !

if you shoot at a ship they go in any direction except the ship you target 

you better stick to your old set up  if you ask me.

new ships /upgrades are coming in  ,they have to get a place in damage output 

one of the reasons we had a update on the guns ...but dont listen to me i am a noob

Edited January 19, 2020 by Thonys

[Koveras]

2 hours ago, LeBoiteux said:

IRL Prince had only 2x6-pdr (guns) + 16x12-pdr (carro). Be happy with 20x 24-pdr carros 😉

IRL the Snow sank in it's very first storm. And she was a lake ship. And she sunk. While docked. She sunk to the weather on a lake, without ever being hit by a cannonball.

She's a unicorn ship ingame. Simple as that.

[The Geth]

1 hour ago, Koveras said:

IRL the Snow sank in it's very first storm. And she was a lake ship. And she sunk. While docked. She sunk to the weather on a lake, without ever being hit by a cannonball.

She's a unicorn ship ingame. Simple as that.

To be fair a lot warships sank in storms or were wrecked on reefs by foul weather during the age of sail, but that doesn't change the fact that this ship is a goddamned unicorn.

What baffles me is that it was already objectively hitting above its weight class before the 32pd carros, and it still handles like it has an antigrav generator aboard, but the devs somehow decided that it still wasn't powerful enough. Just... what the actual hello kitty?

[Hethwill]

9 hours ago, Koveras said:

IRL the Snow sank in it's very first storm. And she was a lake ship. And she sunk. While docked. She sunk to the weather on a lake, without ever being hit by a cannonball.

She's a unicorn ship ingame. Simple as that.

A snow is a entire class of rigged ship, not a ship.

The HMS Ontario is the named ship you refer to.

There's plenty of snows being referenced in the annals of maritime history.

---

The majority of "clients" for the carronades during the "carronade era" were in fact unrated and 6th rates, sloops of war and the like. They were terribly undergunned by that time, remember that this is the transition from 18 pounder to 24 pounder frigates, and a FAST and ECONOMICAL way to do it was to refit the small vessels with carronades. Brought the broadside up while retaining a semblance of their sailing capabilities with the planned outfit.

For obvious reasons the carronade age was short but there are plenty of examples of carronades versus cannon, varying from full fledged battles to small ship to ship fighting, with successes on both sides. Sometimes carronades won, most of the times cannons won.

But, this is a game and while expecting gunnery to perform as expected from a realistic point of view means that one should also expect the vessels to perform as realistically as possible while sailing ( alas they might not perform as they should but that would be too much for most huh ). After all the warships were nothing more than gun platforms - that is all they were. Everything was built around the guns and for the guns and to bring them to battle. 

Are the 32 pounder carronades weird in a snow rig ? Not so much given sloops of war during 1812 war mounted them full broadside.

Do they perform outside the envelope of realistic behaviour to wind and all that ? Well... all ships in game do  ; so why shouldn't the guns be outside the envelope as well ?

[Koveras]

32 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

A snow is a entire class of rigged ship, not a ship.

The HMS Ontario is the named ship you refer to.

There's plenty of snows being referenced in the annals of maritime history.

---

The majority of "clients" for the carronades during the "carronade era" were in fact unrated and 6th rates, sloops of war and the like. They were terribly undergunned by that time, remember that this is the transition from 18 pounder to 24 pounder frigates, and a FAST and ECONOMICAL way to do it was to refit the small vessels with carronades. Brought the broadside up while retaining a semblance of their sailing capabilities with the planned outfit.

For obvious reasons the carronade age was short but there are plenty of examples of carronades versus cannon, varying from full fledged battles to small ship to ship fighting, with successes on both sides. Sometimes carronades won, most of the times cannons won.

But, this is a game and while expecting gunnery to perform as expected from a realistic point of view means that one should also expect the vessels to perform as realistically as possible while sailing ( alas they might not perform as they should but that would be too much for most huh ). After all the warships were nothing more than gun platforms - that is all they were. Everything was built around the guns and for the guns and to bring them to battle. 

Are the 32 pounder carronades weird in a snow rig ? Not so much given sloops of war during 1812 war mounted them full broadside.

Do they perform outside the envelope of realistic behaviour to wind and all that ? Well... all ships in game do  ; so why shouldn't the guns be outside the envelope as well ?

The Ontario is the one modelled in game.

Snow is a type of ship yeah - it doesn't change the facts: it's a unicorn.

Most OP ship of it's class and for some reason doens't req a permit (the rattlesnake does which tbf was buildt as a ship that was designed to sail the seas, the Ontario was not). And it's turn rate is ridicolous.

It's a unicorn but I know we've long passed the time where realism was a measure for this game in any aspect.

 

[Hethwill]

All ships can be "ridiculous" when built in the appropriate in-game shipyards, equipped with the in-game appropriate modules, crewed with the appropriate in-game knowledge and all of that good in-game stuff.

Why bring only the Snow to the torches and pitchforks when you actually have ships in game that over perform more than the Ontario !? 😎