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6 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Just a note that "point blank" is not the same as "shooting a handgun point blank".

Point blank is equal to the distance that the projectile will fly in a flat trajectory. Can be 10m... can be 500m...This can be variable with shot weight and charges used. Lighter shot can actually fly less than heavier shot, but the opposite can also be true, with lighter shot reaching further than heavier. 18 pounders and 24 pounders being on the sweet spot of point blank / energy carried 

even the blog post he linked makes that clear "e.g. point blank (0 deg elevation) range 200m"

Edited by GrubbyZebra

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Is definitely not 200m for all guns, all weights, all charges. But is a fairly good median estimate distance for most. @Lieste did make extensive posts about this subject.

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4 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Is definitely not 200m for all guns, all weights, all charges. But is a fairly good median estimate distance for most. @Lieste did make extensive posts about this subject.

on the website they were using 32pd carronade as reference 

Edited by erelkivtuadrater

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3 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Is definitely not 200m for all guns, all weights, all charges. But is a fairly good median estimate distance for most. @Lieste did make extensive posts about this subject.

i was just using that as an example. Liests posts on this subject (and others) are generally fascinating reads.

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6 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

on the website they were using 32pd carronade as reference 

ok, so... if in game i set the convergence at 250m, the point blank will be before the visual end of the zone and gravity will take over after that :)

The max energy is at the exit of the barrel. After that is a descendant curve in value. So the best value should be hugging the enemy, and the "best worst" value at 200m, with anything beyond being negligible unless light woods on the receiving end and even then...

( picking up on that example and translating it to game as best i can)

 

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On 1/20/2020 at 9:20 PM, Teutonic said:

agreed. a stiff breeze kills a snow.

i just fear the snow v snow "wars" and a snow wins in 1 broadside :P.

but a Snow also has very little limitations in what it "can't" do and a highly skilled player can essentially because indestructible with one. Now those players just got a huge carro boost...nightmares are abound.

All ships even 1st rates can be killed in one broadside, it only takes skill timing and a little bit of luck

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OMG. We've been there before. Almost exactly one year ago. Something was out of whack and devs have nothing better to do than fiddling around with the damage model again.

The sailing simulation in battle instance, the damage model, the cannons, ... it's all good. No reason for changing anything here. Really. Please don't. 

Please take care of the things in game that are broken like, for example

  • Alliances missing
  • Port bonus being OP
  • OW speed boosts being timer based and not location based
  • Seasoned woods being OP, expensive and dropping from "Privateer" PVE 
  • Improvement of raids
  • Privateer fleets being ridiculously OP
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3 hours ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

@admin now if we go back on topic. Read https://ageofsail.wordpress.com/2009/02/28/introducing-the-carronade-the-range-myth/

"As we’ve noted, though, the whole issue of range is simply a smoke screen. Naval artillery during the Age of Sail simply did not have the fire control equipment and range tables to fire competently beyond point blank range. The crews of ships had neither the training nor, in the overwhelming number of cases, the interest or inclination to employ the guns as other than short range weapons."

So by YOUR statements, we should use the 18th century values, and modernize them to the 21th century.

And this is the HUGE problem with have with not only the cannons but alot of things and it all comes back to balance, you add a a pro but not a con to an item to balance it. To exaggerate it abit, would you allow me to mount a full carronade 1st rate? Because as you say the reason the snow got higher armament was because the gunports would be able to fit them, so why stop at the shallow ships? There is no use of cannons anyway because of angling and thickness.

yes lets go back of course

We have full information on all systems and engine benefits and limitations, you do not. 
As a result i would love to give you a full carronade 1st rate because choice of guns would be Captain's choice in the age of sail. But i cannot because all first rate models have lower deck barrels integrated into models to allow 50 first rates in battle. That is why we do not have recoil as well (we had in closed alpha). We cannot afford drawcalls caused by those barrels. Thats why you cannot have carronades on first rates. 

Going to first statement i do not get it - sorry.  Carronades are best from 100 to 250, cannons are best from 200 to 500. Competent captains can keep range. New cannon rebalance will make it even more proper. This is a sandbox and captains decide which nations shine and which guns are used. 

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@admin

What I am asking for is some disadvantage when you are using the advantage of heavy guns. I see that disadvantage in more heel and reduced speed on some courses. This can be physically explained. 

It is for balancing gameplay. It might be an advantage to choose smaller calibre guns for faster and saver sailing.

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32 minutes ago, admin said:

yes lets go back of course

We have full information on all systems and engine benefits and limitations, you do not. 
As a result i would love to give you a full carronade 1st rate because choice of guns would be Captain's choice in the age of sail. But i cannot because all first rate models have lower deck barrels integrated into models to allow 50 first rates in battle. That is why we do not have recoil as well (we had in closed alpha). We cannot afford drawcalls caused by those barrels. Thats why you cannot have carronades on first rates. 

Going to first statement i do not get it - sorry.  Carronades are best from 100 to 250, cannons are best from 200 to 500. Competent captains can keep range. New cannon rebalance will make it even more proper. This is a sandbox and captains decide which nations shine and which guns are used. 

to bad i cant have my full carronade victory or even a 3rd rate when suddenly the wappen was able to carry a full carronade setup.. :( 

@admin in Theory you're correct about the carronades are best from 100 - 250m and cannons from 200 - 500m. The carronades are best no matter how many times you use your theory and numbers, but in practice all you have to do if you play a fully fit carronade ship vs a cannon ship is to angle the ship until you're close, chain him once and then its basically over. The only cannons competitive to the carronades are the edinorogs because of their medium range and equal to carronade damage.

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20 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

to bad i cant have my full carronade victory or even a 3rd rate when suddenly the wappen was able to carry a full carronade setup.. :( 

@admin in Theory you're correct about the carronades are best from 100 - 250m and cannons from 200 - 500m. The carronades are best no matter how many times you use your theory and numbers, but in practice all you have to do if you play a fully fit carronade ship vs a cannon ship is to angle the ship until you're close, chain him once and then its basically over. The only cannons competitive to the carronades are the edinorogs because of their medium range and equal to carronade damage.

Unfortunately you are right. A fast ship with carronades will nearly always win. Some balancing would be nice.

 

You don't know that your opponent has carros, until it's too late.

Edited by Sea Archer
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32 minutes ago, Sea Archer said:

@admin

What I am asking for is some disadvantage when you are using the advantage of heavy guns. I see that disadvantage in more heel and reduced speed on some courses. This can be physically explained. 

It is for balancing gameplay. It might be an advantage to choose smaller calibre guns for faster and saver sailing.

Here is your answer

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3 hours ago, van Veen said:

 

Please take care of the things in game that are broken like, for example

  • Alliances missing
  • Port bonus being OP
  • OW speed boosts being timer based and not location based
  • Seasoned woods being OP, expensive and dropping from "Privateer" PVE 
  • Improvement of raids
  • Privateer fleets being ridiculously OP

+ Little tip.. if you want to persuade - do not use hostile condescending and crying claims here.
You say all features are broken.
Definition of Broken = not working for everyone. The car is broken - it does not drive, for everyone. None of the features you listed are broken for everyone. By claiming wind gusts being broken (when 10000 of players use them every week) you sound like a whining granny, but we know you are not the one

Now to the points

Alliances?

  • Alliances exist and they are implemented the best way by making players talk to each other. They require human communication, trust building, allow betrayal and revenge, and allow granularity (allied with nation, hostile to some clans, or allied in rvr, enemies in pvp).
  • Your comment on alliances tells me that you do not look deep enough to see that
    • button mechanical alliances are worse: 
    • they reduce pvp, politics, and most importantly human communication. Real politics should be done by human communication.
  • Because we like current alliances I really suggest to put the topic of alliances to rest. They were not on the development list last 6 months and are not going to be on the development list in 2020. You can bring this issue up in 12 months but i doubt i will review them  

I spent 3 dev months on alliances in the past and will not do it any more. We are not going to work on alliances because they work fine and we have other goals. We listened to people like you too much in 2017, jumping from idea to idea from players trying to please the community. You cant please the community this way.  Indecision and swinging back and forth from idea to idea is the worst. 

Now we are focused on what the game really needs (and what players and alliance leaders really want).

  • Game needs more players
  • Game needs to give players things to do
  • Game should minimize excessive boring time wasting

In fact all things you mention (with the exception of some potential changes to raids rewards) are not broken at all and work as intended. They either keep players or protect players or give players goals.

  1. Ports bonuses are OP?  - This is a goal for many and keeps players giving them real benefit from investments . You can also capture the port and level it up and you can have them to win battles.  
  2. OW speed boosts are working as intended. This feature saves everyones time and I want these wind patches both location based and timer based.
  3. Seasoned woods are op as they were historically. Ships were built with unseasoned woods but rotten in 1 year. This IS how i want them and I want them to drop from risky activities (and be very expensive in peaceful activities)
    1. Privateers cant be cheated or agreed with or camped with contracts and thus is the best place to drop Seasoned wood.
  4. Raids are fine (rewards could be better)
  5. Privateer fleets are fine. Their goal is to protect spawn areas from frigates and above and they do it well. And they are not strong people are sinking them right and left. Practice and you can do it. 

So. Your feedback is known. You do not like something - you want to persuade someone by your post. But to save your time i am going to tell you this. We wont jump from idea to idea or change the same feature over and over again. Features above are not going to be touched as they fulfill their goals. Maybe not ideally, but they work and work fine for me.

We will continue focus on new player experience, retention and solving game problems that we consider important to bring more players and keep more players.

 

Now please no off-topic. Cannons and carronades only.
This conversation on cannons and carronades is important.
New players do not care about alliances. But they care about cannons, and unlike ports with investments or raids they care about easy to get 32lb carronades and more options in light ships.

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10 minutes ago, admin said:

+ Pequeño consejo ... si quieres persuadir, no uses reclamos hostiles condescendientes y de llanto aquí.
Dices que todas las características están rotas.
Definición de roto = no funciona para todos. El automóvil está roto, no conduce, para todos. Ninguna de las características que enumeró están rotas para todos. Al afirmar que las ráfagas de viento se rompen (cuando 10000 de los jugadores las usan cada semana) suenas como una abuelita llorona, pero sabemos que no eres el indicado. 

Ahora a los puntos

Alianzas

  • Las alianzas existen y se implementan de la mejor manera al hacer que los jugadores se comuniquen entre sí. Requieren comunicación humana, fomento de la confianza, permiten la traición y la venganza, y permiten la granularidad (aliados con la nación, hostiles a algunos clanes, o aliados en rvr, enemigos en pvp).
  • Tu comentario sobre las alianzas me dice que no miras lo suficientemente profundo como para ver que
    • Las alianzas mecánicas de botones son peores: 
    • reducen el pvp, la política y, lo más importante, la comunicación humana. La política real debe hacerse mediante la comunicación humana.
  • Como nos gustan las alianzas actuales, realmente sugiero que descanse el tema de las alianzas. No estuvieron en la lista de desarrollo los últimos 6 meses y no estarán en la lista de desarrollo en 2020. Puede plantear este problema en 12 meses, pero dudo que los revise  

Pasé 3 meses de desarrollo en alianzas en el pasado y ya no lo haré. No vamos a trabajar en alianzas porque funcionan bien y tenemos otros objetivos. Escuchamos a personas como tú demasiado en 2017 , saltando de idea en idea de los jugadores que intentaban complacer a la comunidad. No puedes complacer a la comunidad de esta manera. La indecisión y balancearse de una idea a otra es lo peor. 

Ahora estamos centrados en lo que el juego realmente necesita (y lo que los jugadores y los líderes de la alianza realmente quieren).

  • El juego necesita más jugadores
  • El juego debe darles a los jugadores cosas que hacer
  • El juego debe minimizar el desperdicio excesivo de tiempo aburrido

De hecho, todas las cosas que menciona (con la excepción de algunos cambios potenciales en las recompensas de las redadas) no se rompen en absoluto y funcionan según lo previsto. O mantienen a los jugadores o los protegen o les dan goles.

  1. Los bonos de puertos son OP? - Este es un objetivo para muchos y mantiene a los jugadores dándoles un beneficio real de las inversiones. También puedes capturar el puerto y subir de nivel y puedes tenerlos para ganar batallas.  
  2. Los aumentos de velocidad de OW funcionan según lo previsto. Esta característica ahorra tiempo a todos y quiero que estos parches de viento estén basados tanto en la ubicación como en el temporizador.
  3. Los bosques sazonados son op como lo fueron históricamente. Las naves fueron construidas con maderas no sazonadas pero podridas en 1 año. Así ES como los quiero y quiero que abandonen las actividades de riesgo (y que sean muy caros en actividades pacíficas)
    1. Los corsarios no pueden ser engañados o acordados o acampados con contratos y, por lo tanto, es el mejor lugar para dejar madera sazonada.
  4. Las redadas están bien (las recompensas podrían ser mejores)
  5. Las flotas privadas están bien. Su objetivo es proteger las áreas de desove de las fragatas y más, y lo hacen bien. Y no son personas fuertes, los están hundiendo de derecha a izquierda. Practica y puedes hacerlo. 

Entonces. Sus comentarios son conocidos. No te gusta algo, quieres convencer a alguien por tu publicación. Pero para ahorrarle tiempo, le voy a decir esto. No saltaremos de idea en idea ni cambiaremos la misma característica una y otra vez. Las características anteriores no se tocarán cuando cumplan sus objetivos. Quizás no lo sea idealmente, pero funcionan y funcionan bien para mí.

Continuaremos enfocándonos en la experiencia de los nuevos jugadores, la retención y la resolución de problemas del juego que consideramos importantes para atraer a más jugadores y mantener a más jugadores.

 

Ahora por favor no fuera de tema. Cañones y carronadas solamente.
Esta conversación sobre cañones y carronadas es importante.
Los nuevos jugadores no se preocupan por las alianzas. Pero se preocupan por los cañones, y a diferencia de los puertos con inversiones o incursiones, se preocupan por la facilidad de obtener carronadas de 32 lb y más opciones en barcos ligeros.

I am aware that I will say it is not related to the subject of the post but I wanted to ask if there are plans to develop any Spanish ship soon

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2 minutes ago, ManuelSpain said:

I am aware that I will say it is not related to the subject of the post but I wanted to ask if there are plans to develop any Spanish ship soon

Ask in a proper thread, probably. He just said to try to stay on topic here. 

Edited by Never

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26 minutes ago, admin said:

New players do not care about alliances. But they care about cannons, and unlike ports with investments or raids they care about easy to get 32lb carronades and more options in light ships.

Where do you get the information that new players care about cannons? from whatever i've read since being daily online and helpful in the Help chat, there is alot more needed explanation of basic mechanics ( you probably know them from all the strange tribunals), immersive gameplay (more marine life, fog in battles, the famous turn off lantern etc), more stuff to do while sailing (captains logbook, travel route on map, route on map etc).

But i've yet to see a wish to create this carronade meta on smaller ships, either it being ingame or on the forums.

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We would like to discuss all issues players raise in respective topics. Alliances in alliances, fog in weather, lanterns in good things to have.. But if you put lanterns into discussions of carronades - you are doing this topic a disservice. 

 

As this topic is descending away from carronades to marine life and lanterns and fog in battles there is no point to keep it going due to off topic.
 

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