Captin, we're safe! .. Are we?

[Niagara]

On 9/4/2018 at 4:20 PM, huliotkd said:

nope, i don't get it .

if i hunt in reinf zone i give to the prey a really big chance to receive help from friends...if i tag out of reinf he has only 2 min to receive help...again, why the hell a Rear Adm have to go out reinf zone risking his ship when all he needs is inside the proprosed ''Safe zone''?

the only way to get players out of ''safe zone'' is putting something they need to play out of ''safe zone''...

Greetings.

The problem is that some of those players that attack inside the reinforcment zone (not safe) are fitted for a quick kill and then a speed escape and even if allies manages to kill the attacker it does not help the first Target if he is dead....

But I agree that we need content and more reasons to get more players out of reinf zone.

[Licinio Chiavari]

22 minutes ago, Niagara said:

The problem is that some of those players that attack inside the reinforcment zone (not safe) are fitted for a quick kill and then a speed escape and even if allies manages to kill the attacker it does not help the first Target if he is dead...

Would you ever raid enemy waters, close to enemy naval base, on a slow ship?

That said: a raider cant upkeep raiding with kill-death ratio anywhere close to draw or even 2-1 or 3-1 (depending on ship fitting).

This risk make him disengaging (or he should) well before he tactically needs to.

Yesterday I catched a Snow (low rank, clearly an alt) in front KPR. He hitted hard me with carros, and reinf. AI too.

Would I stay and kill him in a closed battle? Yes.

Did I stay in a forever open battle in front of KPR? No: I could kill him but I risk to be too damaged to keep then at bay lucky spawned late joiners.

Yes: raiders need to be really fast killers.

And BTW, usually boarding is the fastest way to overcome a ship of similar size or bigger (possibly with reduced use of repairs; other issue: logistics. I cant overload my ship - risking to be too slow -, and it's less efficient to have to go back home for resupply every a couple kills).

[Capn Rocko]

3 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Would you ever raid enemy waters, close to enemy naval base, on a slow ship?

I do 😃

[sveno]

Wapen next to KPR is like an all-you-can-eat PvP menue.

Edited September 6, 2018 by sveno

[Bluetooth]

Give PvP rewards to losers and see the slower normal ships attack the safe zones increase.

[Teutonic]

30 minutes ago, Crow said:

Give PvP rewards to losers and see the slower normal ships attack the safe zones increase.

I have been in favor of giving the "loser" gold rewards and maybe pvp rewards for the damage they do.

I never understood why we took it out even after the "people abuse it" schpeel. Bringing it back would definitely have a few people come back to play again.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Teutonic

[Licinio Chiavari]

6 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

I have been in favor of giving the "loser" gold rewards and maybe pvp rewards for the damage they do.

I never understood why we took it out even after the "people abuse it" schpeel. Bringing it back would definitely have a few people come back to play again.

And this will let testing less viable (or meta) set ups without guaranteed full loss as now.

At the moment a winning (even if expensive) meta has a far higher gain/risk ratio than any subpar one.

[Niagara]

8 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Would you ever raid enemy waters, close to enemy naval base, on a slow ship?

If I did attacks within the reinforcement zone of another nation I would want a fast and hard hitting ship or fast and boarding fitted ship.

However, as I said in my previous reply to another poster what good is it to me if the attacker that sunk my ship is also resting on the sea bottom.  If I lose a warship or a trader will revenge get that back? No. I will get a sense of revenge ofcourse but what I lost is still lost unless my ship/cargo was recaptured but that is not a normal nor am I guaranteed that I will get it back from whoever manages to reclaim it.

Atm, as a trader I see very few attempts to actually try to salvage any captured cargo or vessel but rather a mad struggle to sink and gain the only rewards the enemy need atm which are PvP marks.

I can not change what the attacker does with my former ship and/or cargo as that is now in his/hers hands and I also understand that many times its not a feasible option when faced with revenge fleets. But also as a trader to be able to escape a engagement only to be faced with a new attack and have them have a second chance to kill me is silly. Worst scenario is when you bring a escort ship and manage to get you trader ship(s) away safely yet the attacker can just attack those same ships once battle ends one way or the other. I have read posts from PvP players that complain about being revenge attacked but few will want to give same protection to traders.

So, I would like to see battles that are more balanced. If I am caught in a trading ship with no friends close by then I need to face the battle that is ahed of me, but if I manage to escape why not have any mechanic that allows a fair chance to actually get away. Not just a10 seconds increased invisibility timer but something more that actually take in account from where you exit a battle vs where you entered and give a fair chance of evading F11 campers at the entry point.

Ofc this should affect everyone even those who attack traders but perhaps not inside reinforcement zones... I think we need more stuff like this to get players out of the zones.

 

[Licinio Chiavari]

12 minutes ago, Niagara said:

If I did attacks within the reinforcement zone of another nation I would want a fast and hard hitting ship or fast and boarding fitted ship.

Exactly.

13 minutes ago, Niagara said:

However, as I said in my previous reply to another poster what good is it to me if the attacker that sunk my ship is also resting on the sea bottom.  If I lose a warship or a trader will revenge get that back? No. I will get a sense of revenge ofcourse

Sorry: probably I missed to point out the real point.
A raiding ship costs. More, far more, or a bit less... still she's quite expensive. So the hunter dont want to lose her at a bare minumum before getting at least so many marks to be able to have new raider, equal or better.

So killing the raider will not help the victim in the short run BUT can help all victims in the long run if the raider got sunk too often.

15 minutes ago, Niagara said:

Atm, as a trader I see very few attempts to actually try to salvage any captured cargo or vessel but rather a mad struggle to sink and gain the only rewards the enemy need atm which are PvP marks.

I agree. I proposed repeatly to rework PvP reward per ship making traders (all traders) worth far less PvP marks wise.
A good value should be worthing LESS than the medium value of the ship (Indiaman... 500k?) plus it's medium potential cargo (more difficult to evalute: but douable).

This to make attacking traders less profitable for those looking only fast PvP marks. Opening the way to some bargaining (I have some agreements with some Brit traders. And very often I accepted a ransom - delivered cash in a neutral port - in place of utterly sinking them). And opening the way to the raider evaluating to sink (for a few marks) the trader... OR capture it and bring back to his port (dangerous).

19 minutes ago, Niagara said:

I have read posts from PvP players that complain about being revenge attacked but few will want to give same protection to traders.

There's plenty empty mind whiners. As you hunt in enemy waters YOU KNOW you'll be (sooner or later, better or worst) hunted down.
Not accepting it means wishing all the pros (plenty targets and often inferior - gear/experience wise) with no cons (the risks of the revenge fleets).

For protecting the traders... try to chat. Try to get a "free passage". With me works.

22 minutes ago, Niagara said:

So, I would like to see battles that are more balanced. If I am caught in a trading ship with no friends close by then I need to face the battle that is ahed of me, but if I manage to escape why not have any mechanic that allows a fair chance to actually get away. Not just a10 seconds increased invisibility timer but something more that actually take in account from where you exit a battle vs where you entered and give a fair chance of evading F11 campers at the entry point.

Ofc this should affect everyone even those who attack traders but perhaps not inside reinforcement zones... I think we need more stuff like this to get players out of the zones.

A longer invisibility timer, I suspect, will give further edge to experienced veteran to escape traps.

In an open PvP enviroment, nothing is balance. Ever.

I usually suggest to have traders as fleety and lead them from a warship. In the end hunters usually looks for marks... they end up ignoring the traders and focus on the warship.
Or sail really fast traders: it is possible... especially being not too greedy using every gram possible to be loaded in the hold (having rarely fleet perk, the latter is my way).

 

[Liq]

I guess the poll results are quite telling.

IMHO we need

• More Spots in the OW where people can willingly PvP each other (fixed RoE)
• A small 100% safe high sec. zone with lower production and rewards in general
• Make GEAR alias MODS matter less, so "risking a ship in a duel isn't worth it" because it cost 15 mill. isn't a thing anymore

[Sir Texas Sir]

Though a PvP red zone on map where agro is over 25% or a lot of PvP is going on (not PvP even zones) that comes up on the map to let you know the hotzones for the day.  Maybe let it fade slowly so when areas get inactive it goes away.  While a zone is RED you get maybe increase rewards for PvP....something simple like boost to creds and xp.

[jodgi]

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

You mean like the entire OW?  

Naw, naw... Would 95%(+) of the OW to enjoy, ummm, "asymmetrical warfare" be enough for you?

[Slim McSauce]

On 9/4/2018 at 7:31 PM, William Wade said:

The game needs more players full stop, but will never have them unless dickhead vet players stop seal clubbing new players around capitals to start with! Why it so hard for gamers to understand that, idiots. People over fish and then complain there are no fish outside of reinforcement areas. 

They never will, it's in our nature. It's up to the developer to protec, formulate pvp incentives outside capital waters, and save the playerbase from disintegrating itself like a bunch of unchecked roudy kids at a house party

Edited September 9, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[jodgi]

10 hours ago, Wraith said:

What you forget is that duel rooms and tournaments will be in the game "SOON" so why pollute the open world and its PvP potential with yet more RoE?

Hmmm... So we who enjoy equal sides fights much more than numerical superiority smart fighting are not only to be relegated to a few percent (actually: per mille) of the OW real-estate, in addition we're only supposed to get it during the weekends?

We don't want to force anything on you guys. Like I said in my previous post; You can do your thing 24/7/365 across all but the entire OW.

Why do you care so much about what RoE we might get inside a teeny, tiny circle separated from the vast OW?

How can one patrol zone pollute the OW?

[jodgi]

10 minutes ago, Wraith said:

You and I are on a well trod path here

lol, yes. But I get shocked every time someone (seemingly) states "No! Denied! You can't have your fun, buddy!"

12 minutes ago, Wraith said:

“The Open World is the universe’s worst matchmaking engine.” —Me

Signed.

15 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I’ll accept more special RoE as content (good) but you and I both know it won’t be used as intended.

I know it can be done. We've even had it... You were prolly there too. I understand why it was rejected as global OW RoE, but within one little circle it won't ruin anything for sandboxers. Liq, palatinose, me, Ram, rediii and all players of similar disposition won't whine about not being able to successfully trawl the patrol zone with a dread fleet, at least when we're there... patrol zone users are only a homogenous group when we intend to go there. That leads to the final point:

18 minutes ago, Wraith said:

do we really need more than one zone per day?

We sure don't need and I don't even want more than one zone whatever the player count may be. I like that fighters know where to meet and I don't want my kind of fun to poison yours.

We'll see how the partly revealed new missions and mechanics work out. It does seem like there will be small and individual patrol mission zones without "anti-sandbox" RoE. I hope the public patrol zone will continue and be given true and (in my mind) hardcore anti-gank RoE.

[jodgi]

45 minutes ago, Wraith said:

but it seems like you should be advocating for is the return of a good match balancer outside the OW.

jodgi > /dev/null

(At least for the foreseeable future)

[Licinio Chiavari]

54 minutes ago, Phaserburn said:

...

Standing ovation.

[Jean Ribault]

1 minute ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Standing ovation.

Yeah, I was in tears.     Had me at "Not to bring up a somewhat dead topic".

[Licinio Chiavari]

9 hours ago, Phaserburn said:

Sorry, it’s been 10 days since the last response... I would say in today’s era of social media, that’s ancient history. It’s hard to tell sometimes, while still being polite.

 

Also, I just came from Black desert online... where you could pay a “black robed man” pennies to let you find someone’s exact position on the map. Imagine the pvp that alone allowed.

Majority of NA players look like not having an idea of what is real ganking/griefing ("OMG they attacked me in safezone! BAN PVP!" - reply: "try EVE online") and grinding/farming ("WTF I play 5 hrs/week, why not endgame gear for me!?" - reply: "try WoW vanilla and after 1-2 expansions") in other MMOs. Really. NA gameplay is quite relaxed.

[AeRoTR]

@Phaserburn I suggest you to select British nation, starting with a new char. Do whatever you did as Prussian but now in safe waters of Kingston Port Royale. I am sure you will very much like the reinforcement zone and the pvp. Good luck...

Edited September 22, 2018 by AeRoTR

[Licinio Chiavari]

3 hours ago, AeRoTR said:

@Phaserburn I suggest you to select British nation, starting with a new char. Do whatever you did as Prussian but now in safe waters of Kingston Port Royale. I am sure you will very much like the reinforcement zone and the pvp. Good luck...

I bet he'll do the same. He'll get ganked 2 times in a row (probably one time by me 😎 ).
Then he'll move in another part of the map. 👍

[Thonys]

I have just been indoctrinated by EVE

I shoot this one off from the start.

the problem i have with it is, the connection between hight security and the rewards......

it just like in eve, high sec is less rewarding, than 0 security...

it always pisses me off, it looks like we have slaves in the city

equal rewards for everybody.

and not that snotty talks like ... low security gives you more than high security,... by the small talkers     (remember a bottle at the coast for beginners)

 

if you want to make zones for attacking that's fine, but not the connection with rewards and security, on what you can make as a  young captain

I have not been indoctrinated by EVE

NEVER

they are in Alpha state since 2016 does it ring a bell

We are in alpha state right now to become Omega for all 

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Thonys