Preliminary discussion of the changes to conquest - clan wars are coming

[Jeheil]

Wowser...huge shift...I have only had a while to digest...but initially...I like it.

Takes away nations (which have RL affiliations) and creates a sort of clan based RvR. As I read it Companies can be comprised of players from different clans without having to drop their clan allegience.

Now as for solo players...well a) its an MMO...so ya know and b ) its an MMO so ya know....

One thing I am a little confused about.....can Companies include players from different Nations ?

Oh and what are the rules for O/W PvP ? Still nation or company v company or ffa ?

Edited August 3, 2017 by Jeheil

[Mamen]

25 minutes ago, Jeheil said:

One thing I am a little confused about.....can Companies include players from different Nations ?

I think they dont know that yet... its confused because if pirate memebers and lets say brit members would be in same war party brits couldnt go into pirate ports and pirates into brit ports... but as war party they could use those 2 different nation ports so if you have members from all nation in your war party all ports are accessible for your team (which I think is not the goal?...resource access, ships, weapons etc should be limited on warpath I think)

Edited August 3, 2017 by Mamen

[Anne Wildcat]

My question is if there are not international war companies, how will this help new players who would prefer a large (pop wise) nation that join a small maybe almost dead nation? At least at first it will still be unbalanced, it seems, unlesss we get a large influx of players. 

[Grundgemunkey]

really interesting discussion...  I dont however see how any of this makes for new player retention ... its the grind that makes people quit .. this game is at its hardest on the first day that you play ... you dont know ..how to sail ... how to fight ..how to trade ..you dont know that if tyou pve outside your capital you will lose your ship .. the rewards for pve are low .. you cant make cash quick enough to make the game enjoyable because you dont know how ..

i dont see how nations retaining there ports .. but having a governor or war company from  either your own or another nation taxing the hell out of you in that port is going to help the new player

example .. you join  british nation ... and sail out of KPR ...  Savanna la Mar is a british port just down the coast ... but  it belongs to say a spanish  war company  who tax heaviliy its produce ,, and use that port to attack british newbies ...   how does that help the new player experience .. its already costing the new player more cash to buy goods ,, theres even more danger that the new player is going to be attacked  ...

if regions cannot change national ownership why would anyone choose to sail for danes swedes or dutch ...yes the new player can enter any port .. im assuming you can only build production buildings in your own nations ports ..doesnt this again limit the options further for the new player ..in these nations

the distribution of ports and resources needs to be re addressed .. if your going to make this work .. you cant start with for example the spanish having 100 plus ports and other nations 10 -20

 

[Thonys]

Port protection :

every port has a port protection for every same nation player (not other nations [danes vs france for example] )

players can not attack each other within the circle of the port  .

example:2 same nation clans are at war with each other, in the circle of the port there is a neutral standing ,outside the port circle  there is free engaging  if at war  (lets say one nation clan has become rogue, so outside  port you can attack it )

for different nation clans this stand of does not count and can even be attacked by forts when go  into battle inside the port circle

[Rikard Frederiksen]

33 minutes ago, Mamen said:

If Im not a member of chartered war company can I PVP at all? And if... who can I tag or be tagged by?

We'll be able to carry on as we currently do, fighting against players from other nations on the open seas. Difference is we cannot engage in port battles if we're not in a War Company.

[Thonys]

war alliance:

small nation clans who are war decked by a clan can ask (or also Fullenteared offering for help from other clans) for help from other clans by forming an alliance for that current war time (called war alliance help: not the same as a already nation alliance)

declaring war cost gold and has a duration of at least a week (and is expensive and taxed[gold goes to game goverment or has a revenue to the port holder where the war is anounced])

war time must be at least a week and can be extended what cost additional  gold .(more expensive and taxed )

Edited August 3, 2017 by Thonys

[Mamen]

14 minutes ago, Rikard Frederiksen said:

We'll be able to carry on as we currently do, fighting against players from other nations on the open seas. Difference is we cannot engage in port battles if we're not in a War Company.

so I'm not in war company... sailing to Mortimer as swedish (or to Danes, Dutch wherever)... grief new players then hide into port because I can go into every port as long as Im not in war company... or what open waters means? Not within certain Nation County?

Edited August 3, 2017 by Mamen

[Thonys]

6 minutes ago, Mamen said:

so I'm not in war company... sailing to Mortimer as swedish... grief new pirate players then hide into port (Mortimer) because I can go into every port as long as Im not in war company... or what open waters means? Not within certain Nation County?

open waters mean outside the influence of ports (outside the reach of guns,/  or claimed territory [12 miles zone])

Edited August 3, 2017 by Thonys

[Archaos]

11 minutes ago, Mamen said:

so I'm not in war company... sailing to Mortimer as swedish (or to Danes, Dutch wherever)... grief new players then hide into port because I can go into every port as long as Im not in war company... or what open waters means? Not within certain Nation County?

The Devs have admitted they may have to rethink the entry to any port for non War Company players.

But if you were only allowed to enter ports of your own nation and ports owned by companies of your nation, this would give a big advantage to nations such as Spain and Britain who have large initial holdings. So the whole issue of which ports can be entered for non RvR players needs to be sorted out.

[Cmdr RideZ]

Current playerbase is small for this kind of system.

I am a new player, I sail in my waters doing my stuff.  Other nations WC owns the ports, so waters are full of enemy warships.  Did I misunderstood something?  If I did not, this might be a problem.  New players see the map, sail in their national waters and enemy warships are allowed to come and go as they please?  I hope I misunderstood.

Having nations and clan wars as a layer on top.  I have seen this in some other games as well, it is breaking immersion.  As a system it is providing a lot of things this game needs, and I think people have been requesting as well.  Immersion may not be that important for many, but first impression for my brains was "wtf is this!".  I would create some kind of connection to nations.

You have turned the game to HC PvE, so what ever you do next, I recommend that you make sure it is full of PvP.

[Mamen]

15 minutes ago, Archaos said:

The Devs have admitted they may have to rethink the entry to any port for non War Company players.

But if you were only allowed to enter ports of your own nation and ports owned by companies of your nation, this would give a big advantage to nations such as Spain and Britain who have large initial holdings. So the whole issue of which ports can be entered for non RvR players needs to be sorted out.

if they have to rethink then we are going back where we start... and chosen Nation experience matters as what devs explained want to fix with that new mechanic...

[Lovec1990]

19 hours ago, admin said:

Hello Captains.

We would like to share some information on the potential changes to conquest. 

Current Problems
New player experience is uneven and heavily depends on the nation you join.

• New players who come into the game have completely no information on what is the state of their nation they just joined.
• Sometimes they join a happy strong nation, but often they join weaker nations
• As a result players who joined a stronger nation have a much better experience than players who joined a weak nation and leave the game. 
• Current national conquest system (take everything from your enemy) reinforces this problem. 
• Fluctuating online increases the problem even further - if you nation has 10 captains left you cannot play normally because you become completely uncompetitive in conquest, which in turn reduces quality of other types of gameplay
• As a result most new players (who did not join a winning nation) become unhappy populace and leave the game instead of having fun.

Alts.

• Alts interfere with conquest. There is not much to add

Solution

Decree on the changes in the political systems in the Caribbean.

• European and North American (current nations or further Nations) powers will agree to not give away ports to other nations.
• Nations will close eyes on the privateering activities in the Caribbean region allowing free combat in the region.
• Nations will start taxing all activities in the caribbean (stamp tax) on all purchases, mining or forestry and player to player trade
• Nations will grant charters (allow to create) for new type of chartered companies: war corporations or clans that will be allowed to establish control over regions in the Caribbean. 
  • current guilds and clans will remain the same
  • new chartered war company will be able to be created by players for the purpose of region control and taxation.
• Captains who are not a member of a chartered war company will be able to enter any port in any ship. 
• Members of a chartered war company will be able to enter the following ports
  • national ports
  • ports other chartered war companies of their nation control
  • all other ports where the governor allowed entry (this is still under consideration)
• Nations will allow such chartered companies/corporations to tax regions that they control but will not allow change of ownership of the port to another nation.
• Chartered war companies will be able to change tax to lower or a bit higher than a government level. All tax collected in a port will go to a chartered war company for the development of that region.
  • For example. A spanish chartered war company will be able to conquer/take control of Gustavia region and establish taxation in the regions (tax could be higher or lower than a national level). The city will remain swedish but it will be controlled by a spanish governor (chartered war company)
  • Additional options for chartered war companies to develop a region are under consideration
• Only chartered war companies will be able to participate in the port battles. Only clan (war company) who is attacking the port and who is defending the port will be able to participate in the port battle.
  • so for example if East India Company will decide to take control of the region from the Hanseatic League only captains who are members of those companies will be able to enter port battles. They will be able to do it even both companies belong to the same nation.
• Nations will allow chartered war companies to freely attack each other even if they belong to the same nation. This will allow chartered war companies to settle score between each other if they believe someone is interfering with their chartered activities
• Chartered war companies will not have a warehouse but will use a special port warehouse assigned to a war company by a port (1 warehouse per region)
  • Because warehouse is city based if another chartered war company conquers the city (takes control) it will gain access to that warehouse with all belongings including tax money. 
  • This means the chartered war company will lose all tangible assets (with the exception of ships) if they lose the port to another clan
• Captains joining war companies will have to serve a minimum time period and will not be able to exit the company for certain time
  • After exit they won't be able to rejoin a company for a certain time (to avoid jumping back and forth between war companies).

Potential results: This will completely eliminate alts from conquest and will stabilize the map for new players who will have an equal experience irrespectively of the nation chosen.

Lets discuss.

Systems rework might take some time, but will be delivered with tweaks found during the discussions in this topic. In this matter we recommend captains to not sweat much about conquest until this feature is done because map will be reset to its original state once this is implemented. 

If a clan has a warehouse in port that it did not originaly belong too their nation do they lose everything and will we lose our ships or it would be just map reset?

[admin]

Initial thinking was wrong about port entry..  giving an option to everyone to enter any port just creates too many opportunities to ruin the game for others

we will post an update later today on the port entry and starting and conquerable ports. In general we think we should stop trying to find the new type of wheel and copy working designs from Potbs or eve. 
 

[Mamen]

26 minutes ago, admin said:

Initial thinking was wrong about port entry..  giving an option to everyone to enter any port just creates too many opportunities to ruin the game for others

we will post an update later today on the port entry and starting and conquerable ports. In general we think we should stop trying to find the new type of wheel and copy working designs from Potbs or eve. 
 

My suggestion:

All nations have same amount of ports around capital (dont know 7-10 closest ones)... rest are freeports.

War company if made from only members of same nation can use freeports and that nation ports (and contest them).
If War Company includes different nation members then that War Company can use and contest freeports only.
If captain is not a member of War Company can go into every Port. That captain can do PVP also but only if not within Nations or Pirates Counties area (only on open waters and around freeports).

War Company members can PVP everywhere... but within National and PIrate Counties Waters only against other War Companies...

NON War Company captain is safe on Nation/Pirate area waters...

Shipyard lvl3,  building and docking 1-3 rates only possible in Freeports

ofc add War Companies Leaderboard

Edited August 3, 2017 by Mamen

[Sir Texas Sir]

7 minutes ago, admin said:

Initial thinking was wrong about port entry..  giving an option to everyone to enter any port just creates too many opportunities to ruin the game for others

we will post an update later today on the port entry and starting and conquerable ports. In general we think we should stop trying to find the new type of wheel and copy working designs from Potbs or eve. 
 

To be honest the game really needs a reputation system for the players. IF you get bad reputation you can't use the other nations ports for trade and than limit entry to those ports only with a trader.  So the reputation system replaces the smuggler flag pretty much.   Why would some one trade with some one that sinks traders all the time?

The only way for other players to use that port would be for the War company to take control.  Say my clan/company takes the Spanish port that I could never enter cause my bad rep for sinking Spanish ships.  While it stays a Spanish port normal Spanish players can enter, every one in my company can enter and use it too.  Other Pirates would have to have good reputation with Spanish to use it though.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Sir Texas Sir

[Rebrall]

1 minute ago, admin said:

Initial thinking was wrong about port entry..  giving an option to everyone to enter any port just creates too many opportunities to ruin the game for others

we will post an update later today on the port entry and starting and conquerable ports. In general we think we should stop trying to find the new type of wheel and copy working designs from Potbs or eve. 
 

i don't think so just need to add controls for it 

1 minute ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

To be honest the game really needs a reputation system for the players. IF you get bad reputation you can't use the other nations ports for trade and than limit entry to those ports only with a trader.  So the reputation system replaces the smuggler flag pretty much.   Why would some one trade with some one that sinks traders all the time?

i like this idea but you could also add in more for those that like to primarily like to  trade also like give them trading flags that allow them to trade freely but use the suggestion by sir texas sir to implement away to control those who have bad reps through pirating and such like,   

 

Ok i have also been thinking about the whole getting jumped whilst trading in these said Clan/company owned ports,

so your pretty much going to get into these ports cause people will want the tax, but then you run the risk of being jumped outside on the way out,

so why cant we tweak it a bit so you can earn Traders coins from trading that can be used to give you immunity from that particular clan/company (fly that clans/company's flag) for x amount of time or until you enter another port

 

another option is players could set 2 tax rates so like 10% tax but run the risk of being attacked risk vs reward

or pay 17.5% and get immunity for x amount of time from that clan/company

its purely just some thoughts that could make the game more dynamic that's controlled by the players  

 

[Christoph]

the biggist problem for newbis is the 3min timer in missions. Anyone can jump in and take your ship away!!

[Hethwill]

A lot of information to digest and make sense of. Also spectacular posts from all corners on why the players are here - from the "history buff" to the "meta-conquest with a different motif from tanks, giant robots or spaceships". There is a inherent flaw in all of it from how I view it - sandbox.

While liberty of action in OW/Conquest is a tremendous strong quality the unchecked liberty of action is also our biggest defect.

All comes down to purpose and with the breakdown of mechanics as explained, with maritime regions control being passed from Nation to private entities ( Companies ) we do open the best and worst. It is a pandora's box but that we need to open, that I will unconditionally support ( even if it hurts my history roleplayer side... ).

With this in mind, given it all comes down to us players and how we shall use the tools I do propose the following reviews to the initial plan

_________________________

All Trade and Production shall be scrutinized and pay its due shares to the sovereign Nation via the Company (as it was historically). Everything else would be considered outlaw trade.

- Taxes are applied to all forms of trade of resources, materials and trade goods ( market, trade window ) taking into account values asked or, in the case of direct trade, standard NPC local price is used for tax calculation.

- Companies warehouses indirect exchanges are exempt.

- Ship trade is not taxed.

_________________________

National responsibility - The Nations have passed control of the Colonies to the local councils ( this is historical btw ). There are divisions of opinion, tensions can run high ( check colonial councils attrition ) BUT the stakes are high. The local powers MUST look to their own interests while promoting National prestige. Obviously we cannot simulate this entirely, instead I propose

- Companies have one warehouse/bank per port ( as per the devs proposal )

- Officers can access goods in warehouse normally, give and take resources and materials and trade goods.

- the Bank associated to the warehouse of a given port becomes fixed. Meaning deposits can be made but no withdrawals can be made.

- warehouse trade system, using the Bank funds, to buy resources, materials and trade goods and ships from the Market in its port of origin - example: Fox Company has port Alpha under control. It has a automatic warehouse and bank associated. All fund in Bank can be used to purchase any type of goods being traded in port Alpha.

- taxes do not apply in purchases made through Bank

________________________

I also propose no "virtual" warehouse for War companies or Clans. They claim, they establish, they must protect.

War companies have one per port controlled. Clans can have one ( as it is now ) in their chosen port. Individual players have them per outpost.

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

I am sorry to say this but even if i understand the reasonning behing thoses chartered war company and clan wars. It will end super badly and finally achieve  killing the game. 

 

You suggested not a single idea about how to balance war company  ? Did you even think about that ? What stop all vets from the server to join spain or britain and then form a big company to rule the whole map by establishing high taxes around other nations capitals and dock there to gank noobs ? We don't even know if war companys can be composed by differents nation's players or not!

 

What the server suffer now, could be even worse with such suggestions. Plus this solve absolutly nothing for the gank/grind/new players complains. Oh great you can can still see you ports under your nation's flag but "oh an ennemy just jump out from it", even more easy to mission jump solo players, camp enemy capitals all day long..

Plus if you can enter you nation's ports + the one from your company, you have the potential to cross the map with harbour protection half the time jumping from a port to another  in your trader^^.

 

Small & divised nations situation would be even worse with one clan on a dutch company, one on a danish one, in the middle of that, independant non nvr players will be attacked by both dutch & dan, and half the clans from his nations will not help them because of company..

This will be a damn mess for what i can see.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Baptiste Gallouédec

[Bart Smith]

29 minutes ago, admin said:

Initial thinking was wrong about port entry..  giving an option to everyone to enter any port just creates too many opportunities to ruin the game for others

we will post an update later today on the port entry and starting and conquerable ports. In general we think we should stop trying to find the new type of wheel and copy working designs from Potbs or eve. 
 

Or mix them somehow. I told you this in 2014...btw Take what was good from there...

Edited August 3, 2017 by Bart Smith

[Hethwill]

Add more Nations if possible. Let's have New Curland and New Scotland. Split Spain in the four vice-royalties. Introduce Texas.

[Simon Cadete]

Whatever you guys decide to do, I think you should stop announcing these big changes right away. Telling players that there will be a map reset coming very soon and everything we do for the next few weeks is pointless will just have people stop logging in until this patch comes out. 

You should announce this a week before you release the patch.

Remember what happened with the last reset with both servers empty?

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 minute ago, The Red Duke said:

Add more Nations if possible. Let's have New Curland and New Scotland. Split Spain in the four vice-royalties. Introduce Texas.

Wait you said TEXAS?   I still want to own Texas once before they mess this map all up, was going to do it before the patch but never got around to it, "Cause TEXAS HAS TO OWN TEXAS ONCE."  lol

[Kaikai Diaz de Vivar]

It is necessary to strengthen national identities,not to destroy them, in this way the Nations will not be worth 
anything and end up disappearing and this game no longer makes sense, Maybe after this some let the game. Regards

Pdt: Sorry for mi english (traductor)

 

Edited August 3, 2017 by Kaikai Diaz de Vivar