Preliminary discussion of the changes to conquest - clan wars are coming

[Armored_Sheep]

I like the idea of war clans a lot. I look forward to playtest it. Do you think that the taxes will cause that warriors will take care of traders and wealthy customers in their areas? More happy pubbies, bigger income in tax?

Edited August 3, 2017 by Armored_Sheep

[Kanay]

2 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

From PvE players ? I doubt it. It is more the pvper that does all of it.

So what would a "shadow" PvE layer would break that isn't already by powergaming use of alts anyway... ?

 

If I did not read wrong one of the focal ideas is to promote new players space to grow and safety to do it.

From current ones probably not no, but then any alt will be able to select the PVE side when making a character on the server so ...
 

[Thonys]

whow...... can't handle the reading anymore

this is not a hot topic but a burning one 

i must put the flag out to celibrate

 

[Hethwill]

Just now, Kanay said:

From current ones probably not no, but then any alt will be able to select the PVE side when making a character on the server so ...
 

We are limited to a character per server. Only setback is there's no more character synchronization.

I see no difference from having a PvE layer (optional) being a disruption or the disruption made by pvp alts already in place, some of them at least.

 

I am reading it all again and trying to figure where population balance and evolution of a new player falls in.

Ports are not important and OW PvP, hunting sweeps, far surpass RvR PvP in numbers. Newcomers will continue to be swept aside and lose it all.

At least with a PvE layers they can break or make the economy ( as you wish ) and build a foundation for themselves if they so wish to change to PvP mode ( permanent ).

 

PvE server would remain untouched. They earned their place. This is a additional PvE "server".

[Red Dragon 13]

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

French, Spain, GB, US, DUTCH/DANE/SWEDE(combine these) would give you 5 nations.  Than make Pirates a Privateer faction where if they have a LoM they can work for a nation, if they don't they are pirate/outlaws.  Only work out of free ports/pirate havens and no conquest.   

I tip my hat to you Sir. Devs do what you suggest and nothing else is needed.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Archaos said:

It think we have to stop trying to put this game into a purely historical context because although it is set in a historical age and we use ships spanning probably 100 years or so and the starting nation map positions are historical, once we start playing history changes. There were never this many first rates in the Caribbean, the Swedes never captured Bermuda, and the list goes on, so to a certain extent we are creating an alternative universe. I do like the national pride and I would always choose to sail under the White Ensign, but if there is truly national pride then you will not have civil wars between war companies of the same nation, if you do then you would have the same discord within the nation with no possibility of resolution short of bullying them with personal abuse until they leave the game or change nation.

I know many people play this as a historical game and like to have national pride, but I think that most can agree that nations forcing people with radically different views together is not working. There is no King or President or Emperor of a nation exerting his or her will, there is no command structure like the admiralty dictating the agenda. There is no way a wayward clan or person can be brought into line by the rest of the nation, so how can nations work. At least with the clan system you have a leadership and a group of like minded people working towards the same goal so they can act more like a nation would.

I think the Devs have taken this step because it is obvious that Nations as they currently are is not working, I think it will alienate the pure history buffs and put the game more into the realms of fantasy, but it may be a solution to the games problems. 

But then why have nations at all? Why have the carribean that as I have already mentioned is uncommonly poor from a gameplay perspective. Why not redo the map, redo the factions and essentially forego any pretense of a historical context? - Would I keep playing then? - no, there are other more fleshed out games out there that offer the same clan-based experience. This games allure is the historical context and while the very actions of the players are ahistorical they are steeped within the framework of 18th century nations and the players understanding of that nation. To let go of this is to reduce the game to EVE or some other fictional based theme.

[Demsity]

Do not for the love of god do not, I repeat do not merge the swedes and the danes. Remove them if need be but do...not...merge

[Wigermo]

Allow a charter to set a br limit for the "pb'' on there own regions so we could have more immersive fights and not the same old stupid block of 25 santi/vic/lotions/agas with the odd mortar brig/mortar brig hunter.

It would also make it so a smaller charter/group of frigate/6th rate captains could potentially defend there own territory vs the big zergs without needing an alt industrial revolution.

Ofcourse they would have to conquer/buy it from the bigger zergs to begin with

Edited August 3, 2017 by Wigermo

[mikawa]

What if player make a strike because the system doesn't work at all and *all* players simply join *one* big huge war company? Then all players profit from selling or harvesting their own things. Interesting idea, isn't it?

[Hethwill]

Just now, mikawa said:

What if player make a strike because the system doesn't work at all and *all* players simply join *one* big huge war company? Then all players profit from selling or harvesting their own things. Interesting idea, isn't it?

Same as players joining 1 non-outlaw nation atm. Would become a PvE server.

[Thonys]

1 hour ago, The Red Duke said:

From PvE players ? I doubt it. It is more the pvper that does all of it.

So what would a "shadow" PvE layer would break that isn't already by powergaming use of alts anyway... ?

 

If I did not read wrong one of the focal ideas is to promote new players space to grow and safety to do it.

yes 

all new captains will spawn in Nation NPC clans(all nations will have one) [for a safer environment ]

they can not be attacked in own waters by [same nation vs same nation ]  ,and if you do,.... you become a pirate(+warning/ >instant) [and if you are a pirate you can be attacked by everybody [you become red]) [of cause they can be attacked by other nation player clans in own and  enemy waters]

nation NPC clan is a restricted clan>  if the new captain decides to grow up.... he can decide to join/or make a player clan (you will see a lot of pve players settle  in that clan,/or if they want to do additional tasks, they make their own dedicated player clan or join one [for lets say building ships or cannons] )

(if they leave the player clan they join the npc nation clan again, but  haveno  access  to building cannons anymore)

a nation npc member can do missions and trading and can attack 7 and 6 rates from other nations in enemy waters (and can not attack a friendly nation member anywhere)

 

Edited August 3, 2017 by Thonys

[mikawa]

Just now, The Red Duke said:

Would become a PvE server.

Sry I didn't get this. It was stated that PvP has nothing to do with war companies only conquest.

[Demsity]

6 minutes ago, mikawa said:

Sry I didn't get this. It was stated that PvP has nothing to do with war companies only conquest.

If all players were in the biggest and richest war company, they would have no one to fight

Edited August 3, 2017 by Demsity
I cannot spell today

[Hethwill]

My intent wasn't even related to engagement rules. Was a true non pvp layer for example, for newcomer to learn and later on decide if they want to jump the fence or carry on their pve career in the server.

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, mikawa said:

Sry I didn't get this. It was stated that PvP has nothing to do with war companies only conquest.

I was saying that if we, at this very moment, would all change to one nation, as we cannot attack each other, a PvP server would be a PvE server.

was just a bit off topic

We are discussing a proposal in this thread, brainstorming and watching from different angles. Your idea of everyone joining one big War Company would have the same results.

Would become a PvE universe

[mikawa]

1 minute ago, The Red Duke said:

Your idea of everyone joining one big War Company would have the same results.

I'm not sure. I can still steal resources from others, can't I? This step would be like a playermade revolution against the system ...

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, mikawa said:

I'm not sure. I can still steal resources from others, can't I? This step would be like a playermade revolution against the system ...

You are in the same War Company as the rest of humanity. They are your brothers in oak and canvas and shot. You shall not engage them unless you go out of the War Company.

[Slamz]

4 hours ago, admin said:

copy working designs from Potbs or eve. 

I don't know if I'd call POTBS a "working design". It did fail as a game and its OW mechanics were a big part of the problem. I also think the "port battle" concept is fundamentally flawed: having to get so many players together in such specific ships for such a high-stakes one-off fight is a game flaw.

EVE is more tantalizing but EVE had a lot of very good support for clans which you would have to build here if you really want clans to work like they work in EVE.

[mikawa]

2 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

You are in the same War Company as the rest of humanity. They are your brothers in oak and canvas and shot. You shall not engage them unless you go out of the War Company.

After this company change  it might happen that I exit a port and find during hours of sailing around only company mates which I mustn't attack? Is this good for PvP ?? Then it is better not to join any of these cutthroats and be able to attack all ..

[Thonys]

3 minutes ago, Slamz said:

I don't know if I'd call POTBS a "working design". It did fail as a game and its OW mechanics were a big part of the problem. I also think the "port battle" concept is fundamentally flawed: having to get so many players together in such specific ships for such a high-stakes one-off fight is a game flaw.

EVE is more tantalizing but EVE had a lot of very good support for clans which you would have to build here if you really want clans to work like they work in EVE.

you have to start somewhere, mostly at the beginning.....

but do you play eve ...than you can ad some spectacular ideas to the forum i think

Edited August 3, 2017 by Thonys

[Hodo]

So the more I think about this, the less I like it.  

The overall idea is just poorly thought out and appears to be a half baked and a troll post of an idea.  Something like throwing a treat out there to the players to distract them from the actual problems in game instead of actually fixing the problems in game.

Ultimately this is the issue with the proposed idea.

Why be in any nation other than pirate?  If I am in a nation I cannot attack fellow nationals even if in another clan.  BUT if I am pirate I can attack other pirate clans and enforce my will on them.   

So why be anything other than pirate?  With the use of alts to get things from the admiralty store you really dont need to be a national in the proposed system.

 

Then you run into the slow death of new players.   New players will be cut off from any attachment to the nation.  They will be left to hopefully be picked up by a clan.  But again with the rampant use of alts, most noobs will be overlooked as possible spies.   

 

In closing the new system is more trash than good.  

[Thonys]

3 minutes ago, Hodo said:

So the more I think about this, the less I like it.  

The overall idea is just poorly thought out and appears to be a half baked and a troll post of an idea.  Something like throwing a treat out there to the players to distract them from the actual problems in game instead of actually fixing the problems in game.

Ultimately this is the issue with the proposed idea.

Why be in any nation other than pirate?  If I am in a nation I cannot attack fellow nationals even if in another clan.  BUT if I am pirate I can attack other pirate clans and enforce my will on them.   

So why be anything other than pirate?  With the use of alts to get things from the admiralty store you really dont need to be a national in the proposed system.

 

Then you run into the slow death of new players.   New players will be cut off from any attachment to the nation.  They will be left to hopefully be picked up by a clan.  But again with the rampant use of alts, most noobs will be overlooked as possible spies.   

 

In closing the new system is more trash than good.  

well, for instance, i don't have to declare war at a pirate ...so for starters, you will be hunted by every nation (war or no war)

and that is something  i don't like the most (i rather pick my enemies carefully )so i will be a national 

because nationals have to declare war to each other by clanwars and are not necessary at war with each other..

[Demsity]

After reading every thing in this thread I have come to a conclusion. Alts is a huge problem for this game, even the developers acknowledged this.

So @admin, It looks like you have too choose:

Keep alts and accept that they are in the game, and flourish as more copies of your games are bought. This will slowly cause the game to die.

Enforce a strict no alt policy, set up a system where players can report possible alts, and ban them accordingly. Thus saving the game.

I will probably get allot of hate from players with alts but oh well, just putting it out there.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Demsity
Still cant spell

[Red Dragon 13]

12 minutes ago, Hodo said:

So the more I think about this, the less I like it.  

The overall idea is just poorly thought out and appears to be a half baked and a troll post of an idea.  Something like throwing a treat out there to the players to distract them from the actual problems in game instead of actually fixing the problems in game.

Ultimately this is the issue with the proposed idea.

Why be in any nation other than pirate?  If I am in a nation I cannot attack fellow nationals even if in another clan.  BUT if I am pirate I can attack other pirate clans and enforce my will on them.   

So why be anything other than pirate?  With the use of alts to get things from the admiralty store you really dont need to be a national in the proposed system.

 

Then you run into the slow death of new players.   New players will be cut off from any attachment to the nation.  They will be left to hopefully be picked up by a clan.  But again with the rampant use of alts, most noobs will be overlooked as possible spies.   

 

In closing the new system is more trash than good.  

Devs, the only thing that needs change is Pirate Mechanics. Please see what Sir Texas Sir said.

[Vizzini]

Turn Bermuda into a noob area training zone, some form of simple tutorial. I don't agree that new players leave just because it's hard or they get ganked all the time, some will of course

 

Install a reputation system , with negative reputation turning players into Pirates

 

slow down hostility

 

sort out a battle timing system so we no longer have whining players going on about flips at night or day or somebody elses prime time. Or look at ways for a different way of scoring / having battles so different times don't hurt the game. French EU shouldn't have to wake up / stay up for Aussies etc and vice versa. Would PB out of players time zones be covered by an AI fleet if nobody can turn up at each others times. If 10 Spain turned up to fight the aussie brits, could the numbers be boosted by AI to match the Aussies .. would that even help what we have now ? I dunno but it's something to mull over