Preliminary discussion of the changes to conquest - clan wars are coming

[Skully]

53 minutes ago, admin said:

War corporations will be able to set their controlled port as free town (enterable by all nations) or as national town (enterable only by their own nation)

How about Pirates only be able to set as free town?

[Hethwill]

Just now, Skully said:

How about Pirates only be able to set as free town?

Good suggestion !

[Skully]

59 minutes ago, admin said:

• Hostility changes will be done
  • Hostility grinding will be removed
    • Some kind of flag will return - but the placing time will be increased to 30 mins to give time to respond
• Potentially we can bring back timers set by governors

Still thinking hard on this, I may have a potential suggestion for it.

We can't go to a full map of timers as this might create a hard block in a timeslot that does not get any timer.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Skully

[Sang Noir]

Quote

this system is impossible - because you can't hang traitors. Its against steam eula.

Hahaha! No, they wouldn't be amused ..

Re-naming CLANS to FLEETS would look much nicer though.

I like Koltes' ideas, as they are making the changes to the way the map is organized, not by adding another level of complexity on top of the clan system.

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Jean de la Rochelle

[Cmdr RideZ]

On 8/2/2017 at 8:24 PM, admin said:

thats exactly why we think national gameplay is becoming irrelevant with lower online. Alts ruin it to the extent it becomes unplayable. National infighting or disagreements do not create a unified nation...

I have always liked the drama and salt in Naval Action.  The only reason why pirates were not attacking each other was that they had to agree or else they would lose.  Pirate chat is, has been, the most entertaining chat.

22 hours ago, admin said:

stop trying to find the new type of wheel and copy working designs from Potbs or eve. 
 

If you are running out of time, a very good option.  Games are often repeating old games as it is pretty hard to innovate new systems.

 

11 hours ago, Blackjack Morgan said:

actually enjoying myself in pvp situations than I'll have to choose the arena mode. It isn't my first choice but it is the one that has been forced upon me.

@admin this is a sad fact for many.

Before this HC PvE grind system, you had somewhat innovative new mechanism.  I was thinking you keep the direction like that, but instead you started to copy from other games and now I think your game sucks.  In some, in many cases you were doing things right.

Why your system before was so much better?  This goes slightly out of topic as well...

Think about games like World Of Tanks, which I believe you know well.  It has mind blowingly stupid end game.  You have a board, you have regions, and you have arena fights.  You do this again and again and again.  This was even very successful.

 

Your OW PVP and plans for it before you introduced Legends, were light year more advanced than what WOT has as an end game.  OW PvP was just one area that you tried to make competitive on some level.  Competitive PvP is important as that is what most people want to play, most do not want Gank PvP.

Dont know why it was so bad idea for you to make more or less balanced OW battles.  Test OW PvP so that you have some kind of balancer,  keep it some what competitive.  Your plans at least to me sounded like something totally different than EVE, and EVE is a shitty game.  Copying from a game that is not as good as yours, I really do not understand why?

Make signaling perk to be standard + remove revenge ganks.  This way Home defense forces can go to help their friends + get a bit more BR.  I have been asking this for a long time, do not know why you cannot test this maybe the most obvious solution.  Why you tested so many things, and then you skipped this?  Then you turned the game to something totally different?  It is hard for me to understand why.

...

1st rates cannot be Titans, or nothing nearly as expensive, as you are asking 25vs25 1st rates to a port battle.  Notice also that people dont do that much port battles, as they want to make sure they have 25x1st rate.  So if you increase costs for 1st rates, you also decrease port battle count.  This expensive ship idea does not work.  Once again your initial idea was better than the copy from EVE.

5 dura to 1 dura + make 1 dura ships with upgrades way more expensive than 5 dura ships with upgrades before.  Before people were scared to do PvP, so?  I really cannot understand, why?  Because you started to copy from shitty game called EVE?  Why?

You wish us to sail Pickles when it is obvious that people want to sail at least 5th rates.  Because in EVE people sail a frigate and you wanted to copy from it?  Why?

You made this game to be for crafters and traders, that probably do not represent even 5% from your playerbase.  You listened that 1-5% from your playerbase so strong that you ruined the game for 95-99% ?  I believe you copied this from EVE as well?

...

People have been asking multiple times that make port battles Rate and BR limited.  I have been following this forum long time, I believe I am not the only one that has been recommending you this.  Still, you dont test this, why is that?  People give you the most obvious solution and you guys do not even comment?

Granted, community has been giving you also bad ideas.  There are community members who think that my ideas and comments are trash.  I understand that it is hard for you to know who to listen.  I cannot blame you from that.

...

Why hostility idea sucks and why it was obvious?  Hostility is community driven.  Also this is PvE based mechanism is hard to accept in a PvP game.  I do not know anyone whose #1 dream is to go and sink bots for hostility.

My recommendation for RvR, if you are planning to make a new...  Nation based.  A system that clearly defines which clan is the one driving the attack.  Flag system had this.   This way you are able to define which clan should be able to tax and define regional/port upgrades.  Your hostility idea can work, but define the clan who is going to get the port in their control + make sure that it is about PvP and not a PvE grind.  What ever you do, make sure that it is PvP.

Have a big green zone for capital region and make sure that people are encouraged out from it.  Clearly indicate on map which regions have player activity.  Could be also "yellow zone".  Big zone helps small nations to survive.  Clearly indicating where people are creates PvP.  Map is huge and player base is not.

...

Before you were trying to fix A and B, and those were often good things to get fixed.  I really do not understand why you suddenly decided to change it this radically.

I highly recommend that you always ask from community before you bring this radical things in the game as you did in at wipe.  You also waste so much time developing that stuff and if it fails you lost money.  Agile development, a very big thing at the moment.  I highly recommend that you patch/upgrade often to get feedback as soon as possible.  In some post you estimate what were the reasons why people left the game.  You made so many changes that I do not think you can know exactly why people left.  Your reasoning in that post was flawed.

 

Your own ideas were better than these EVE copies.

[Skully]

57 minutes ago, admin said:

Regions will split into individual ports for conquest (tentative)

What's holding this back? I would very much like to see this happen.

[Zoky]

What about pirates? Any changes there?

[Guest]

I dont want reinforcements either. Usually the only pvp to be had is around nation capitals. 

I would be okay with longer battle join timers based on proximity to capitals so rescue fleets have more time to arrive. 

[z4ys]

On 2.8.2017 at 3:57 PM, admin said:

• Updated version: Nations will not give away ports only in certain areas (main coast). The ports in the center of the map will be capturable by war corporations for their nation (but they will be able to tax them)
• Captureable regions
  • Cuba (with the exception of havana)
  • Jamaica
  • Bahamas
  • Lower parts of florida
  • Hispaniola
  • Turks and Caicos
  • Puerto Rico
  • All minor island chains

What about Kidds Island? Why not make this the pirate Capital instead of Nassau?

[Hethwill]

Question/suggestion about reinforcements ( all those that have been there will know )

- does the request for AI reinforcement lock the battle ?

[z4ys]

@admin what is now the difference of clan vs war company? They are equal except that clans cant capture ports? Doesnt make it them a fake feature this way?

There has to be more difference in war company vs clan

Edited August 4, 2017 by z4ys

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

I can see good in the updated version,

Here a views suggestions:

 

[1]  New Player start as neutral by default, can choose to spawn at any nation's port, neutral port or freetown.

-Neutral players can attack pirates

-or become pirates by attacking other neutral or national players.

-Pirates can attack anyone.

-Neutral & pirates players can form clans like now.

-Neutral & pirates can enter and leave any port in trader or 6/7th rate max (pirates uses ruses/deception). Neutral & pirates can use any ships in neutral ports & freetowns.

[2] To become able to leave a national port with a 5th rated ship or bigger you need to pledge allegeance to a flag by joining a national clan or create one (even if you was pirate you can still ).

-When in a national clan, you can't enter foreign ports except if you are in trader with smugler flag like now.

-You can attack pirates or any other national players.

-You can only attack neutral players if your sail in 6th or 7th rate (Privateering, & anti alt patrol ) not bigger. Bigger national ships can't join national vs neutral battles but can join neutral side vs pirates.

 

[3] War corporation

 

- War corporations must set an  Headquarter building in a controlled port or the nation's capital.

- War corparations are limited to 25 members (from any clan of the nation) from the start. Each controled port allow for 25 more.

 

[4] War goal as the new hostility bomb

 

-From this headquarter, the leader can define (craft?) a war goal (kind of flag you don't need to plant) by choosing a targetted port costing an amount of war supplies and maybe provisions to use in your headquarter.

- Once a war goal is set, a port battle timer is scheduled. No need for contention grind, hostility bomb or flag, just assemble enough warsupplies at your headquarter, spend them and announce your intention, now  defenders have some time to organize.

 

 

[5] Taxes & Chests

-Each corporation owner of a foreign port must pick a governor able to build a local warehouse where he will define taxes or not for the port.

-Taxes are collected & stocked in the local warehouse. If the port is lost the warehouse and the gold in it fall into the hand of the new rulers.

-Taxes can only be moved from warehouse by crafting chests (labour hours) in the local warehouse. Chests can only be opened by pirates (in an outpost) or in a Headquarter. When opened the chest converts in cash.

 

[6] Raid as the new pb flag for pirates

A Pirate clan can buy flags like previously. Flags don't allow port control switch but if the attacker win the PB, they can convert gold in the local warehouse into chests at no cost. But need to bring back the chest into one of their outposts to open them.

 

[Kanay]

43 minutes ago, admin said:

But now you will be able to recapture - even from your own nation

Yeah ... you open the Pandora's box here with this, good luck trying to get this under control and then close it ...

  Plus you push all Nations capitals at corners of the map  ( Bridgetown possible for Brit capital ? Really ? hell no ) and then make the center of the map a mess with all cities capturable, able to be turned into free towns and on top of this put all essential resources there where traders will be forced to go and be easy hunted either in the area itself or in them way back to a corner of the map where they have to pass in narrowed areas full of hunters, and the essential trading/ production area being full of high taxes quick enough, smugglers still not the best way to then trade in enemies controlled ports, alts still favored for this economic essential part, bing trading and exploitation permits the owners only can deliver instead...

I really don't like at all what you are trying to force here with map changes, need to see more but on the paper i don't like this.

No words on the cooldown for flags, if a big company can raise 10 flags a week , or limited to a couple each 10 days only, if a company can raise the same flag again and again for a city with no very long cooldown on this city flag if the attacker fails, like you fail you need to wait 3 weeks before raising a flag again for a city you tried to capture already.

Need to see and test but not enthusiast at all for the changes proposed and how the center of the map is supposed to become the main ground for everything ...

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Kanay

[admin]

8 minutes ago, Kanay said:

 ( Bridgetown possible for Brit capital ? Really ? hell no )
 

Main british naval bases in the Caribbean were in Bermuda and Bridgetown. Kingston and Mortimer were just bows to Potbs which we played a lot some time ago.

Secondary bases were English Harbor (antigua) and Port royal.
 

[Kanay]

17 minutes ago, admin said:

Main british naval bases in the Caribbean were in Bermuda and Bridgetown. Kingston and Mortimer were just bows to Potbs which we played a lot some time ago.

 

Did not sailed there since a while but  unless it have changed and i really doubt it have since,  this used to be a very problematic area if you tried to do the turn of the island by the E,  there is a single little tiny corridor on the E side of the island and then you hit the border of the map and most of the area and up to St Joseph is full of kind a masked shallows that are part of the map boundaries.  Back in the days the British did not had a limited map boundaries... Pardon my words but Bridgetown is the shittiest place possible for a capital in the entire map, there is no city more close to the artificial border of the map  ...
 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Kanay

[twizt3dwun]

lol unrelated fun fact: Bridgetown, Barbados isn't actually in the Carribean Sea ( source ) 

I like the proposed changes, from a non-clan solo player perspective I don't do many PB's anyway so don't care so much in that respect. Sounds like it'll make things more interesting as long as I can still use my 5th rate and exchange iron balls with people I'm happy lol.. Keep up the good work  

 

[Mamen]

so many posts... merging Global and EU PVP is planned?

[Cmdr RideZ]

1 hour ago, admin said:

UPDATED SHORT VERSION (simplified based on feedback and discussions)

Not sure if you even need war corps for this, those actually might just confuse things.  Clans could have done maybe the same for their nation like before?  You would just need to add clans that can reap taxes, build port upgrades.  The owner of flag can decide who can get in the port battle and who cannot, lobby or in that 30 minutes when forming a full fleet.  Then leave current capital regions for their current owners as none-captureable.  On top of that clans could have been fighting from their own national ports.

?

[Cmdr RideZ]

17 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

War corporation... its name speaks of a time period from our future, maybe Star Citizen?

EVE

[Wigermo]

more resources in the center? more prey, seems cool

[admin]

10 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Fantasy locations for capitals (Sisal for Spain?... ). Where is going to be located the capitals of DK, SWE, France in the coast? More problems than solutions, more questions than answers.

DK SWE mode is very hard.
France is in the antilles they could be un-capturable.

New spain (Virreniato de Nueovo Espana) capital was Mexico City. There were various audiencias and captaincies (territories) which make the following cities the option to be capitals. Santo domingo, vera cruz, campeche. Santo domingo was a capital of spanish west indies (part of new spain). But it is not suitable to be a capital because historically it changed hands multiple times and even raided by Drake. With this thinking Havana (a paris of west indies) might also not fit as a safe capital as it is was raided by french corsairs and british. 

[admin]

12 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Please, no... Make Belize a capital instead.

belize is on the coast - it will  be uncapturable anyway. 

[mikawa]

if there is any change planned (and it seems so) concerning the capitals I strongly recommend thinking of automatically moving all assets of a player from old capital to new one together with the patch.

[Thonys]

1 hour ago, z4ys said:

What about Kidds Island? Why not make this the pirate Capital instead of Nassau?

probably too far away (in sailing time) Nassau is a more accessible place to sail from,  or to sail to and is more in a center of a  region

Also historical Nassau was one of the first harbors where piracy arrived (piracy was actually invented by the dutch [letters of Marque]

Edited August 4, 2017 by Thonys

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Skully said:

How about Pirates only be able to set as free town?

I prefer them to be called Pirate Havens, but I think this should remain for all nations.

1 hour ago, The Red Duke said:

Good suggestion !

To many folks will complain, but they should keep Free Towns not telporting to and that will make it where most folks won't want to make them all over the place.  Just means you can pick where the trade hubs are and set it up.

1 hour ago, Zoky said:

What about pirates? Any changes there?

@admin This is a very good question.  Could be a good time to make some changes to pirates.   

1 hour ago, z4ys said:

What about Kidds Island? Why not make this the pirate Capital instead of Nassau?

I'll be honest what they should do is make Kidds Island the capital and than lock it from no new chars can make pirates from the log in/start screen and bring back the In game means to become pirate by attacking your own nation.   It's suppose to be hard mode so new players shouldn't start out as pirates.