Preliminary discussion of the changes to conquest - clan wars are coming

[Liq]

Just now, Peter Goldman said:

AI will never save you from organized PvP fleet and it will make it just a little bit harder, boring, will take more time and bringing PvE to PvP...

Thus my suggestion of leaving battles close to shore open for Players to join until a certain amount of BR js reached. Did you even read what I wrote?

[Sir Texas Sir]

One thing I would do is since clans have no min limit and 250 max limit the War Companies do need a min limit to start.  That are you can have min limit but you can't buy a flag without the min members of a group to pull it and it should cost a good chunk to buy them. You should also see when the flag is pulled who pulled it.

Example.   

The Black Company pulls two flags on Red Companies ports, but also Red has had a flag pulled by White Company.  Red Company knows The Black Company has enough players to fill both those ports.  They only have enough to fill two ports too.  They know White company is only 15 players.   They can split there forces at one two battles and full force at another and hope they win or they can put all there members into two and pick the one that the second team will prob beat with twice the numbers or go for the even fights.

Though honestly I think a Company can't buy a flag until they have the at least 25 member's if port battles remain a 25 vs 25 thing.  That doesn't mean all 25 member's have to make it to the port battle, it just means you need a group that big to buy a flag in the first place and do port battles.  This will keep from folks making small companies and pulling false/griefing flags.

[Rychu Karas]

9 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

So basically you want to reduce the silly 5v1 ganks close to a national port, which is fine with me. I dislike fights where one side has 5x the BR and is going to win most likely. So I like the idea. 

But why do we have to rely on AI? I Think we all know that AI in this game are not the smartest and very easily counterable. Also, only as much reinforcement until BR is matched doesnt seem enough. 5 surprises will still wreck a brig, even if it gets 5 npc surps backup.

Solution:

Why not let battles where the side being attacked and close to a national port in his nations waters be open to join for actual players, until the total BR reached 1.25 - 1.5 times the BR of the attackers? This should help a lot more, as you are trying to prevent those 5v1 ganks outside another nations port. I donz really like the idea of having to rely on AI to save you .

Maybe make it so you have the choice. One or two minutes time to call for AI reinforcement, and if you dont do thaf during the time, the battle will stay open for players to join your side until the BR factor (1.25 - 1.5x the BR of attackers) is reached.

That's the point, make room open forever but only for the weaker side until the BR is equal for example 1-1.25 of the attacker strength.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Rychu Karas

[Suricato Rojo]

1 minute ago, admin said:

yes.. flag is an arbitrary name. we can still make players craft it (and just call it the flag instead of war supplies)

 

Its not arbirary as a ship with a flag used to have a icon on top of it.

[Hethwill]

4 minutes ago, Suricato Rojo said:

Its not arbirary as a ship with a flag used to have a icon on top of it.

If the Battle Group is the flag... it is arbitrary You see "da fleet !"

[Sir Texas Sir]

8 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

1m from each player? lol, that's a little overkill. 100-200k from each would be pretty enough, so a full fleet cost would be like 2.5m-5m in gold.

Yah I was like that would kill small clans that can barely afford a level 3 ship yard.  Hell I have yet to break the 5 million mark at any time, but than I do a lot of PvP/RvR and such so I don't just sit on my money I actually spend it to buy stuff to make more ships to get more clan members into bigger better ships.  Though doing about 2.5-5m depending on the port type for 4th rates and SOL and maybe 1m for shallow water would be more reasonable for cost of flags.  It kinda needs to be balanced on what you might make profits from certain ports too.

[Vernon Merrill]

Hey, you want to play with the big dogs, then you gotta pay...

 

Isnt that what you RvR guys like?  I mean, again, its gotta be more than just pulling 10 flags a night like before, right??

 

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

11 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Not money. War Supplies. You already have the ships, you just need to provision for war. And no kiddies play, there's a bottom limit to ensure you are not just wasting the Company resources

Actually the cost can be the crafting of the war supplies.  You need say 100 Shallow water, 250 for a deep water and 500 for a SOL port.   Than make the cost to craft such equal to a good numbers like 1m for shallow, 2.5m for Deep water and 5m for SOL ports.  This way the whole company has to chip in and produce these war supplies before they can go to war with another company and fight over a region.  

 

[Daguse]

3 hours ago, Rebrall said:

Reinforcements in coastal ports will come back to game (as fleets no longer give xp)

Fleets no longer give XP... seems kinda harsh for new players to learn how to tag. 

@admin does the flag system mean load protector may return?  Players will flock to their true nation, so I would hate to see the EU nations have timers only at their prime time and the US only at their prime time. So maybe limit the number of ports on a specific time? If your nation has 10 ports, you must spread them out across 3-4 times. 3 at 6-9pm local time, 3 3-6pm local times, 3 9pm-12am local time. you could do the same for war companies, just allow only 1 or 2 per slot. 

In short some way to ensure they are not all stacked at the same time. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Daguse

[Skully]

Flag / War Supplies, it all boils down to the same thing:

[CatSwift]

14 minutes ago, Skully said:

I like it, but remove the flag cost balancer. Else it'll become an investment decision.

For the same price, we should all be going for port 3 unless player defense is consider too high.

Less income ports which are less likely to have high defenses will be good targets for smaller war companies.

[Sir Texas Sir]

10 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

I am not arguing with you, just pointing that any PvP player will hate that suggestion. Also as you say, signaling and area control perks should be by default active for everyone.

Doctor perk we had before should be auto for every one so you get a small percentage of your crew back after every battle.  As well the area control perk, if your close enough that I can fire at you than you shouldn't be able to escape me.

[Wigermo]

Add devastation to taxed regions similar to hostility.

If players are sunk/capped or raiding missions planting war supplies/saboteurs in the area, and it will devastate it and lower the tax income/repairs/crew/labor/resource generation in the area, this would be repaired with lower taxes or spending gold/marks over time. This would encourage pvp as who would want 1m in taxes when it could've been 10m or 5 cartagena tar instead of 50

[Izrid]

Enjoying the direction that this is headed, along with the friendly and constructive discussion taking place

[Liq]

24 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

I am not arguing with you, just pointing that any PvP player will hate that suggestion. Also as you say, signaling and area control perks should be by default active for everyone.

You mean the "5v1" kind of "PvP" player will hate the suggestion of their prey getting the possibility to get help from players, close to a national port, and thus actually getting a fight? Yeah, probably. But then again, 5v1 is not PvP in my book. It's ZvP. Zerg vs Player.

[Hodo]

45 minutes ago, qw569 said:

Sisal, Bridgetown and Belize are deep water ports. Nassau is shallow water port.

So in capital pirates will have no any 5-1 rates.  Is it mistake or by design

This would be perfect.. no need for the rest of this concept.   

Move the capitals to where suggested, drop the rest of this clan wars crap.

[Ink]

Captains, regarding Nassau pirate capital shallow water issue - this is just one of the idea for consideration and not 100% yet.

[Iroquois Confederacy]

Just now, Ink said:

Captains, regarding Nassau pirate capital shallow water issue - this is just one of the idea for consideration and not 100% yet.

People want pirates to be a hard core faction, until it's time to do hard core stuff.

[Capn Rocko]

4 hours ago, admin said:

Free towns will be removed from the coasts

You must really hate pirates. Now we have to sail 2 hours to the Mexico/South America coastline AND sail 2 hours back without being able to stop at a free town? I am all in favor of a change to the pirate nation, but not a change that makes it harder for us to do OW PvP. 

5 hours ago, admin said:

(You want hard core grinder types only to play the game direction it is headed.)

thats exactly what we are trying to avoid

Personally, I don't see how this change caters to anyone but end-game players (players who have already grinded). If you want the game to be less grindy, then make it easier for newer players to get established in the game (ex: giving more xp/gold for missions, adding more content to keep newer players engaged, encouraging shallow water fighting, etc.). 

[Leku]

Flags had two flaws.

1st they were too cheap.

2nd after succesful defend of port or fake flag there should be minimum 3 day cooldown. It was idiotic to wait 4 hours everyday to wait for same people buying same fake flags or same nation try take same port.

Simply reward effective defence.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Leku

[Sir Texas Sir]

9 minutes ago, Ink said:

Captains, regarding Nassau pirate capital shallow water issue - this is just one of the idea for consideration and not 100% yet.

We really need to have three types of ports that port isn't of that level than you can't get a ship bigger into it.  Though Nassau really prob should be a deep water port, but just limit it so that SOL's can't get into any port unless it's a SOL port is all.

8 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

People want pirates to be a hard core faction, until it's time to do hard core stuff.

You mean like nationals actually act like Nationals too?   I actually proposed some pretty hard core changes for pirates, but it seems the Devs never want to make Pirates actuall not a bastard/red-headed Step child of a Nation.

6 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Just looks like another limitation for pirates without adding new content/mechanics for them. How much do we want to handicap pirate scam?

Until they do give us an actual mechanic than we should continue to be treated like the other nations.  We all ready don't have the BP's for the SOL of 2nd and 1st rates and we can't get the Permits for the Aggy and SOL of 2nd and 1st rates.  Which is add as we can buy the BP for the Aggy, but not the permits?    The only special ship we have is the Pirate Frigate which any national can get too the same way we get our SOL's BP's and Permits.    Personnel I think any National caught in a Pirate Frigate should be treated as a pirate by all.   You want to sail in a pirate ship you must be a pirate.  

7 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Yea, let's make them able to sail only 6th rates and 7th rates... I am a privateer (technically legal pirate) under the British nation and I got no limitations other than outlaw battles. Why would I play as pirate? Give me 3 reasons, I will wait.

It's a good question as a lot of folks don't know all the limitations and I'll be honest the only perk of the Pirate vs Pirate FFA's is the use of self police our own nation and well the fun duel here or there between clan mates.

[Hodo]

4 hours ago, admin said:

this system is impossible - because you can't hang traitors. Its against steam eula.

No but a reputation system will help this.   Someone who has a poor national reputation can be removed from that nation and cast out as a pirate.  

[admin]

8 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

You must really hate pirates. Now we have to sail 2 hours to the Mexico/South America coastline AND sail 2 hours back without being able to stop at a free town? I am all in favor of a change to the pirate nation, but not a change that makes it harder for us to do OW PvP. 

 

center of map will not have significant changes to free towns 

Only coasts. Placing a free town near every capital was done to provide players with resource transport opportunity. This is no longer needed as all resources must be transported. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 minutes ago, Hodo said:

No but a reputation system will help this.   Someone who has a poor national reputation can be removed from that nation and cast out as a pirate.  

This is why we need a good reputation system and turn pirates into a faction not a nation that you can't start out as.  You go pirate and loose reputation with your nation.  Though you can get letter of pardons and join nations through Letters of Marque.   You end up with a bad enough reputation in a nation you can be outlawed, turned pirate.

The reputation system can replace smuggler flag too as to if you can go into enemy nations ports as a trader or not depending on your trade reputation with that nation.

[Daguse]

Just now, Sir Texas Sir said:

This is why we need a good reputation system and turn pirates into a faction not a nation that you can't start out as.  You go pirate and loose reputation with your nation.  Though you can get letter of pardons and join nations through Letters of Marque.   You end up with a bad enough reputation in a nation you can be outlawed, turned pirate.

The reputation system can replace smuggler flag too as to if you can go into enemy nations ports as a trader or not depending on your trade reputation with that nation.

You could expand upon that, rep with nations means you get better trade prices with that nation. Maybe pirates can't trade with a nation they don't personally have a good rep with, forcing them to obtain most of their resources from raids.