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Admiralty refits - bonuses information

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admin    28,106

Here is the list of the bonuses for the refits added to the admiralty for the pve marks. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1U4e4D1Sn5D7L36z_KTYG2SymRGNaPOQs09a5TFgVXuc/edit#gid=1132616989

Please remember that the bonuses are not final and will be updated if necessary based on testing results.
Feel free to use this topic for feedback on stats and performances of the upgrades. 

Keep in mind that many blueprints require some regional resources to produce - not all of them can be easily made. 

This is the list of blueprints that will require additional items that are not easily available (drop from NPCs). 

Elite Spanish Rig Refit
Elite British Rig Refit
Elite French Rig Refit
Elite Pirate Rig Refit
French Gunnery Sergeant
British Gunnery Sergeant
Northern Master Carpenters
Nassau Fencing Masters
Guacata Superior Gunpowder
Almeria Superior Gunpowder

The rest of blueprints have the required resources available by trading and can be bought in ports. 

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_Masterviolin    280

Looks great! But I hope these refits are very rare or difficult to get, for I could see significant power creep in-game if these become too common! These are some pretty hefty buffs. 

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Anolytic    3,046

Interesting. Looking forward to testing them.

4 minutes ago, _Masterviolin said:

Looks great! But I hope these refits are very rare or difficult to get, for I could see significant power creep in-game if these become too common! These are some pretty hefty buffs. 

It's okay if they require some work to get, but if they are simply rare, then you will create a barrier between the haves and the have-nots. You get the Strong Hull bonus disaster all over again. If everyone can get the refits, then it is a tactical choice which one you bring.

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Serk    243

I don't see French gunnery sergeant in the list?

Edited by Serk

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Yar Matey    760

Briefly looking at these, I can already tell that I am not a fan of some of these refits.

1)  A 7% main sail force bonus is HUGE! and will give surprises and rattlesnakes designed for chasing an enormous advantage over players in ships that do not have an elite Spanish rig ship.  I haven't run any tests myself, I am sure there are people that are going to test this soon and it will become the new pirate refit go to standard.  I am going to throw out a number and estimate that its going to add ~1 knot to the top speed of a surprise or rattlesnake.

2)  Same goes for the pirate refit.  Upwind speeds will be way out of whack in a pirate refit ship.

3)  Cartahena and/or floating battery will be the new go to standard for port battles giving players without these refits a strict disadvantage to players that do not.  

Elite ganking squads will now consist of 1 surprise outfitted with Elite pirate refit for fast upwind speeds and another surprise with Elite Spanish refit for downwind speed, and no trade ships sailing the open seas or solo player with a basic ship will ever stand a chance of escaping, let alone fighting their way out.  

What I would like to see changed:

1)  No changes to sail force bonuses

2)  No crazy changes in the base hull or mast thickness or hit points of any ships with a refit.   

Small Changes to reload bonuses, or boarding bonuses are fine.  Small changes to heal and turning speed are fine, and VERY small changes to hit points are fine (maybe 2-3% for structure or mast) and a big fat NO under absolutely any circumstances should their be any changes to thickness in hull or mast.  Thicknesses should be used strictly for balancing purposes.

Remember, there is a fine line between progression and giving players who have progressed too much of an advantage in combat.  If I buy an NPC ship, and I run into a player with one of these constructed ships, the player with the constructed ship should have only marginal advantages of my NPC ship.  Do you think going broad side for broadside that my store bought ship of equal rate will stand a change against a ship with 7% increased hull thickness, or 20% more raw hit points?  NO absolutely not!  

Edited by Yar Matey

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Hodo    2,252
10 minutes ago, Yar Matey said:

Briefly looking at these, I can already tell that I am not a fan of these refits.

1)  A 7% main sail force bonus is HUGE! and will give surprises and rattlesnakes designed for chasing an enormous advantage over players in ships that do not have an elite Spanish rig ship.  I haven't run any tests myself, I am sure there are people that are going to test this soon and it will become the new pirate refit go to standard.  I am going to throw out a number and estimate that its goiing to add ~1 knot to the top speed of a surprise or rattlesnake.

2)  Same goes for the pirate refit.  Upwind speeds will be way out of whack in a pirate refit ship.

3)  Cartahena and/or floating battery will be the new go to standard for port battles giving players without these refits a strict disadvantage to players that do not.  

Elite ganking squads will now consist of 1 surprise outfitted with Elite pirate refit for fast upwind speeds and another surprise with Elite Spanish refit for downwind speed, and no trade ships sailing the open seas or solo player with a basic ship will ever stand a chance of escaping, let alone fighting their way out.  

What I would like to see:

1)  No changes to sail force bonuses

2)  No crazy changes in the base hull or mast thickness or hit points of any ships with a refit.   

Small Changes to reload bonuses, or boarding bonuses are fine.  Small changes to heal and turning speed are fine, and VERY small changes to hit points are fine (maybe 2-3% for structure or mast) and a big fat NO under absolutely under any circumstances should their be any changes to thickness in hull or mast.  Thicknesses should be used strictly for balancing purposes.

They have some pretty major disadvantages.  

-15% main sail force on the pirate refit... that makes them pretty slow when heading anywhere down wind.  

Same with Spanish refit, stay sail reduction.   This would kill any chance at heading into the wind, and turning through the wind.   

Those balance each other out, that and a good captain who knows his ship can easily overcome most of these issues.  

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6 minutes ago, Yar Matey said:

Elite ganking squads will now consist of 1 surprise outfitted with Elite pirate refit for fast upwind speeds and another surprise with Elite Spanish refit for downwind speed, and no trade ships sailing the open seas or solo player with a basic ship will ever stand a chance of escaping, let alone fighting their way out.  

If there is a squad and it is well organized like you descriped, then they should have a good chance to catch that lonely trader, because of their work in group organissation, good fitted and spezialized ships and simply the bigger number of players. The Trader Ship Captain could also start to organise themself in a group and bring heavily armed and well armoured escort ships to counter a Hunting Squad.

And if you start a tradetour without escort in risky areas, then you accept the high risk to be caught by enemies in that moment you sailing out of your harbour.

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Yar Matey    760

@Hodo  Its the combination of running a fleet of ships with these refits.  For example, 1 player is in a surprise with a pirate refit, and 1 player is in a surprise with a elite Spanish refit.  There is no way a player in a LGV or an Indiamen stands a chance of escaping.  Take it from the guy who has been doing trade runs for a long time in this game, and who has outrun fleets of chasing player ships vs my solo indamen or LGV.  I have never lost my cargo to a gank squad.  But have lost plenty of warships to them.  

Edited by Yar Matey

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Hodo    2,252
8 minutes ago, Yar Matey said:

@Hodo  Its the combination of running a fleet of ships with these refits.  For example, 1 player is in a surprise with a pirate refit, and 1 player is in a surprise with a elite Spanish refit.  There is no way a player in a LGV or an Indiamen stands a chance of escaping.  Take it from the guy who has been doing trade runs for a long time in this game, and who has outrun fleets of chasing player ships vs my solo indamen or LGV.  I have never lost my cargo to a gank squad.  But have lost plenty of warships to them.  

If a player in a LGV gets jumped by 2 surprises run by players then he shouldnt have been sailing through there.  

Sorry but cargo ships should not be trying to out run anything if they are loaded with cargo.. they should play smart and avoid hotly contested or high traffic areas.  

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Yar Matey    760
11 minutes ago, Hodo said:

If a player in a LGV gets jumped by 2 surprises run by players then he shouldnt have been sailing through there.  

Sorry but cargo ships should not be trying to out run anything if they are loaded with cargo.. they should play smart and avoid hotly contested or high traffic areas.  

Yes yes, the you shouldn't do this and you shouldn't do that argument! (rolls his eyes)  Great way to keep casual and solo players active in this game, give them a strict disadvantage in any combat situation with their non-refitted trade and war ships.  I have been doing trade runs and building ships, outfitting entire clans running solo trade runs for hundreds and hundreds of hours.  What these refits do is make it so I stand no chance of ever escaping from a squad of players with these refitted bonuses.  I am at a strict disadvantage.

Your argument holds no weight when put into practice.  A new player logs in does some missions in a cutter, finds out he needs to do some trading to get money and resources, gets an LGV, tries to do some trade runs, loses his ship and cargo to a small fleet of surprises, rinse and repeats this a few times, then quits the game after not making any progress in the game.  Joke was on him the whole time, he never stood a chance, hes using a ship with no refits!  HA!  

Edited by Yar Matey

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Rebel Witch    515

These buffs are too much and once again will lead to ruining good pvp fights by making so many of them one side simply because of the massive buffs on numerous bow pieces, refits etc.

This a great idea if the buffs are like 1%, 2% max 3% for one piece. but 8%??? holy shit Nelson, that adds up quick

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ironhammer500    162
1 minute ago, Rebel Witch said:

These buffs are too much and once again will lead to ruining good pvp fights by making so many of them one side simply because of the massive buffs on numerous bow pieces, refits etc.

This a great idea if the buffs are like 1%, 2% max 3% for one piece. but 8%??? holy shit Nelson, that adds up quick

But the time taken to get them wont make them so common and if the ship is gone well its a massive loss, i think they are balanced means now longs are more important due to higher pen.

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Rebel Witch    515
2 minutes ago, ironhammer500 said:

But the time taken to get them wont make them so common and if the ship is gone well its a massive loss, i think they are balanced means now longs are more important due to higher pen.

Trust me when i say the hard core pvp'rs will make them common as the wealth and power creep goes up month by month. In fact the fact of them being so hard to get proves my point. Hard core pvp'rs will absolutely own the sea as they fill up on these massive buffs, while casual pvp'rs languish no matter how hard they fight a balanced ship battle because casual players wont be able to get them and dont have the time too.

Edited by Rebel Witch

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ironhammer500    162
1 minute ago, Rebel Witch said:

Trust me when i say the hard core pvp'rs will make them common as the wealth and power creep goes up month by month. In fact the fact of them being so hard to get proves my point. Hard core pvp'rs will absolutely own the sea as they fill up on these massive buffs, while casual pvp'rs languish no matter how hard they fight a balanced ship battle.

Well this game is headed that way where the major hardcore clans will get everything while small casuals will be wiped out. Everything is setup so major clans can dominate so much better with numbers/money so on.

Edited by ironhammer500

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Ned Low    324
3 minutes ago, ironhammer500 said:

Well this game is headed that way where the major hardcore clans will get everything while small casuals will be wiped out. Everything is setup so major clans can dominate so much better with numbers/money so on.

That's correct. 

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Snoopy    1,150

Flavor and choices / builds are good, rare modules in the game is just providing an excuse to somebody who lost.

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Daguse    491

@admin
Awesome stuff, I'll work on updating the wiki. Anyway we can get a copy of the ship knowledge tree as well? 

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Ellias    14

You can go both ways; like WOW making almost all content reachable or going like EVE and make some content exclusive..

Just remember with second option you wont make people happy here cause you gave it once. All golden ships and upgrades with tons of money in our treasure chests.

No matter which path you choose, snowballing effect should be avoided. We should have chance to fight back.

 

 

 

Edited by Ellias

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Teutonic    1,056

Looks good, thanks for the info on the refits!

I gotta say, the refit bonuses added with bonuses from the knowledge slot will allow all players to customize what they want their ship to do! I enjoy this very much.

If bonuses get out of hand, the admins can always tweak them, as I see it. The woods give your ship a little special edge in something, but it's the knowledge amd perm slots that now make the ship. 

Plus the refits are perm slots on 1 dura ships, if you lose the ship you lose the refits and have to remake them. I am totally liking this.

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Ink    2,339
55 minutes ago, Serk said:

I don't see French gunnery sergeant in the list?

It is not added to the game yet.

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Hodo    2,252
16 minutes ago, Yar Matey said:

Yes yes, the you shouldn't do this and you shouldn't do that argument! (rolls his eyes)  Great way to keep casual and solo players active in this game, give them a strict disadvantage in any combat situation with their non-refitted trade and war ships.  I have been doing trade runs and building ships, outfitting entire clans running solo trade runs for hundreds and hundreds of hours.  What these refits do is make it so I stand no chance of ever escaping from a squad of players with these refitted bonuses.  I am at a strict disadvantage.

Your argument holds no weight when put into practice.  A new player logs in does some missions in a cutter, finds out he needs to do some trading to get money and resources, gets an LGV, tries to do some trade runs, loses his ship and cargo to a small fleet of surprises, rinse and repeats this a few times, then quits the game after not making any progress in the game.  Joke was on him the whole time, he never stood a chance, hes using a ship with no refits!  HA!  

Again there is a hardcap on speed, max is still 15kn.   And a good LGV captain will know when he is defeated before the battle starts, if he is tagged and is in a bad position then it is over before the first shot is fired.  But if he is smart and defensive tags first and puts the Surpises out of position he can get away LONG before they ever get a chance to hit him.

You could say it is OP if a Privateer and a Rattlesnake jump the same LGV.  Both can run him down no matter WHAT point of sail he takes and both can easily stern camp him.

Fact is a Surprise is a hunting Frigate, just like the Trincomalee, they both are pure built hunters and VERY good at that.  

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