Timber Feedback Thread - PINNED

[Lukas97Austria]

9 hours ago, Henry Long Castle said:

I brought my fir fir ships as an example. There are more woods that have been destroyed with this update.

 

no, if anything they are more useless than before since fir fir gives crew protection now and I dont thing swivel guns can take down a mast no matter the thickness.

 

 

Did you check the screenshot ? Do you see balance in that ? I see builds that are better than before and I dont care much, i was expecting new woods to be better. But along with the new woods they changed the values of the previous woods making already made ships useless. 


Bottom line is that from this update the players that were benefited were the new players and the ones that are really rich and dont give a crap if they have to rebuild their entire fleet... People like me got hello kittyed

I did my testing, proved I was right to be afraid that messing around the existing values will render some ships useless and not only that. You cant sell them either. A ship costing several millions of reals is now worthless, no one wants to buy it golden or not. Upgrades put on it ? Wasted.

To be fair. What will change? Exactly. Nothing.  Your enemy's have the same problem. But when I see about the masts getting weaker people will not take 4-5 speed mods on there ships. 

Just test it and we will see. 

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

the whole demasting business against healthy ships is nonsense anyway. masts fall because of heavy damage to the ropes and stuff. not for artillery sniping. in-game it could mean below 70% sails only for instance.

[Lukas97Austria]

I don't like the demasting at all. But what I personal don't like more are immense stats on woods. When I see the Stat card well the % differences are way to high anyways. But if they balance this over that aspect. I mean why not. Now everyone is vuneral against demasting. And upgrade slots are not the typical 4 speed mod +1 repair mod meta anymore. 

 

But I also see some people don't agree here. Any change will also hit the enemy ships aswell. So I am fine for now. 

[Henry Long Castle]

6 hours ago, Lukas97Austria said:

Now everyone is vuneral against demasting.

Not everyone, only people that were going for speed in their builds, so Fir and other woods like this used as structure get -15 mast thickness. People using Teak however for stucture get + whatever mast thickness. Masts are directly linked to what wood you use for structure and I really do agree or see any reason with this. Having a thinner mast on a ship will make it really elastic and really weak. Both are characteristics that you dont want on a sailing ship. If anything people would try to get stiffer, more thick masts, the stiffer the better. But im not a wood expert so I dont know how the woods we use now translate in terms of stiffness or lack of it. Always had the impression that in game, masts were made from Fir thus why you need some every time you craft a ship. Only thing I could find about masts back then is that they were made from conifers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinophyta

[mikawa]

7 hours ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said:

masts fall because of heavy damage to the ropes and stuff. not for artillery sniping

I always thought that masts fall because of balls that luckily stroke the beam of the mast. But I may be wrong. Demasting is a nice tactic variant in game, as it adds diversity.

[Magnus Baldur]

17 hours ago, Henry Long Castle said:

Bottom line is that from this update the players that were benefited were the new players and the ones that are really rich and dont give a crap if they have to rebuild their entire fleet... People like me got hello kittyed

Maybe they did the conversion so people would have an actual reason to do trade missions and make reals instead of just permafarming pvp with fir/fir or teak/teak bullshit ships?😁

[Kejsaren]

5 minutes ago, magnus2005 said:

Maybe they did the conversion so people would have an actual reason to do trade missions and make reals instead of just permafarming pvp with fir/fir or teak/teak bullshit ships?😁

This game is time-consuming as it is, you should be able to get what you need regardless if you are trader/pvp'er/crafter.. or all. I don't craft or trade, because i like pvp more, and prefer spending my time doing that. It's like forcing traders or crafter to pvp to obtain something they want/need. 

[Henry Long Castle]

1 hour ago, magnus2005 said:

Maybe they did the conversion so people would have an actual reason to do trade missions and make reals instead of just permafarming pvp with fir/fir or teak/teak bullshit ships?😁

The only people that do trade missions are new players, everyone else that wants to make money from trading buys stuff from one port and sells to an other. I dont know what you like about afk sailing from point A to point B. 

Also where do you see the bullshit in fir/fir, teak/teak ships ? 
Why would you praise point A to point B sailors and call bs on those that hunt them? 

[admin]

as users have already created the topic Lets discuss new timber here.

All things about them. Good, bad and ugly.

What you like, what you don't like, what you would change and where problems are? Whats good? so we can add more things like this to the system.

 

Please understand that to fully understand and test the benefits we tried to convey, some time need to pass, and change should be gradual. 

[z4ys]

In my opinion...

• timbers should randomly spawn on the map and schould stay at a location for a short amout of rl days before chaniging location (it could give regions where specific woods would spawn more often so people have a rough idea where to look for those woods)
• maybe let tradeships drop hints where to find those woods ( a trading shiplog where xy woods was last seen)
• no api loaction data for this woods pls
• They should be considered as crafting good and no contracts should be allowed
• no spawning of those woods within a HDF area (or close to one)

What I like:

• woods now have pro and cons
• old woods are somewhat kept (make players happy)

Edited June 20, 2020 by z4ys

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

Virginia Pine, Danzic Fir, Moulman Teak are not known to trader tool at this time - all others are.

It's a pity they seem to be restricted to only a few ports, and even two (or three in case of Kingston + Bridgetown) in one place (Oranjestad, Willemstad have African Teak and African Oak; Roadtown, Maracaibo have Danzic Oak and Riga Fir; Savannah, Charleston have Italian Larch and New England Fir; Bridgetown, Kingston have Greenheart, Malabar Teak and Rangoon Fir).

Could that be a non-permanent source? Like we imagine wood salesmen wandering across the Caribbean? Each day somewhere else spawning?

I find it unpleasant meanwhile the new woods were canceled for port shop ships. It wasn't a reliable source anyway, with usual random results from breaking ships, but at least a source you could use if you knew no other, with too little numbers to matter really.

[Henry Long Castle]

What I like so far : 

New timbers being added is nice since they add more choices for builds. 

What I dislike so far :

The big changes to the already existing timbers. 
New timbers spawning in some capitals. They should be able to be constructed in different ports like the rest.

What I hate so far:

Mast thickness being related to what wood you choose for structure.

[Never]

What I dislike about the new wood update:

-Live oak is hardly worth using since Locust is just a far better version of it. And Locust is much easier to get. 
-Seasoned woods are 10 times more expensive than their non-seasoned counterparts and barely seem to be better. 
-Malabar teak is dropping as a trade resource while all other new woods are dropping are normal resources.
-KPR capital of GB is dropping special woods while being a port nobody can capture. Meanwhile all other nations have to fight to own the ports that drop special woods, GB has them for free.
-Seasoned Fir is far too weak and is basically unusable for anything. 

What I like:
-Given the limited supply of new wood, we might see multiple combinations being used for ship crafting since several of them are potentially good for building with.
-The fact that new woods drop directly from a few ports might give more interesting reasons to try to take those ports in RvR.
-It's something new and it helps refresh the economy and the feel of the game.

What I would add:
-Clan missions for the new woods for doubloons. 
-New woods in wooden chests
-Add a few more ports that drop the new wood, put only one type of new wood in each port instead 2 or 3. 

 

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

I noticed already bidding war starting at known spawning ports for new timbers, 44000 reals per log in Willemstad. It's going to be worse than it used to be for teak, whiteoak, liveoak...

This can be avoided by wandering offers over all the map. So many alts nobody has to survey all of them. As it is now, the richest and with the most alts will get all the timber.

[Hethwill]

Would be interesting to have it

- Random ports at every maintenance.

- Drops like trade goods. So X amounts throughout the day

Promotes spread of opportunity for all captains.

[Never]

9 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Would be interesting to have it

- Random ports at every maintenance.

- Drops like trade goods. So X amounts throughout the day

Promotes spread of opportunity for all captains.

People are already leaving because of being bored with the game, making people sail around to find logs every week? I don't think they tiny community left in game can handle that. Promotes more players leaving due to more tedious tasks having to be performed. 
What is the point of streamlining and simplifying crafting if getting wood is a chore? You don't need to make it so hard to find the wood to make it fair to all.

We also are limited to 8 outposts, the game wants all to go for pvp and around 50-100 players defending a whole nation's ports, so many PZs many go almost unused cause you need outposts there reps, outpost where to produce guns and reps. Then you need other outposts for just getting woods? It's illogical unless you are some PvE player/Solo player. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Never

[Raf Van Boom]

The bad

- The distribution system of these new woods is poorly thought out and befits mostly people with plenty of time on their hands and many alts and enough patience/macro to buy the goods.

The good

- more combinations of wood types? Hard to say, I'm not sure what drove the dev team to make this change.

[Gregory Rainsborough]

What I like:

Nothing

Remove them, there's simply no need for them. The more woods you bring in, the more unbalanced the game has become.

[Admiral Howe of Gibraltar]

The good

Speedy ships with weak masts.

 

The ugly and bad

With such poor drops at Kingston Port Royal, I will never build a HMS Victory of Malabar Teak.

If the whole point was to provide us woods to fight against the hordes of DLC ships in seasoned woods, the goal hasn't been reached. 

[fsrewq86]

I really liked the changes to the combat system reduced the seat on the stern, now the ship's armor and masts matter, even wrote a laudatory review, you do not need to increase the penetration, but there is a comment if you already gave a new tree in the capital of the Dutch to give and other capitals. For the first time, the patch is chic and without negativity, and this is from the skeptics ' assessment.

[ChineseBatman]

*So here is how it was.

You used to be able to have good survivability and speed cap ships like Connie, Endymion etc to speed cap limit. Fact is that was broken and far too powerful. Being able to go into an engagement solo fight, run reprint constantly over and over until target was dead. You could make loads of mistakes and still rely on you’re overpowered speed to get you out of the scrape for free. That play style was easy street and needed to be addressed as is obvious. I mean does anyone seriously think that resembled skill, well time to wake up and smell the coffee. Actual skill and good decisions will matter far more now with speed builds.

*This is how it is now.

You can still go builds like Fir/Wo and have a decent minimum speed amount of half a knot faster than the powerful teak/wo build now, if you where to speed fit both crafted builds.

Issue the fir/wo build will have now however is she will only be a minimum of half a knot faster than the teak/wo build. So it’s far more important now that you choose you’re fights, make good decisions. No longer will you have easy street.
 

So all those complaining that fir fir is now useless. Grab you’re Cahonas and realise you had it far too easy for too long, and adapt to the situation. The wood changes are good for the most part.

I really think teak/wo Speed builds will be very powerful now. As you can speed build it yet have incredible tank and thickness. There will be more fights without the ability to run and reprint constantly which is a good change. Will be forced to make smart decisions and commit to the fight, or flee early, otherwise sealing you’re doom.
 

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by ChineseBatman

[SnovaZdorowa]

ugly говорите? держите:

вообще не надо было вводить тир3 дерево. 

Сет-маханикой можно было сбалансировать то, что есть. Сет это когда ПАРА fir+teak дает дополнительный бонус/штраф. А пара fir+oak другой, помимо основных характеристик. Можно было закрыть потребности вообще всех с лихвой, не плодя дополнительных сущностей. Чем больше разных типов дерева, тем сложнее его собрать в количестве на линейник.

Когда я увидел после релиза, что можно проапгрейдить порт на тик/вайт и прочее у меня были прям позитивные эмоции, что крафт больше не привязан к портам с "редким" деревом, его не надо таскать через пол карты. Это было ХОРОШО. И не надо было это перелопачивать, как и вводить сушенку. 

Это в EVE online у меня может быть корабль из говна и палок на КТА, все равно стреляет, намберсы рулят. В этой игре я забиваю БР, открываю бой для противника, катаясь на тир-1 дереве я фактически подставляю людей на нормальных кораблях. В соло еще круче, игрок на тир-1 дереве никого не догонит и ни от кого не убежит. Таким образом игра опять заставляет тебя гриндить, гриндить, гриндить, если мы говорим о средних игроках.

Идем дальше? Чтобы добыть каноничный тик-с  мне нужна пачка хотя бы из 5 прошаренных игроков, причем не клановая, т.к. все вуден честы при клановом фарме уходят на апгрейд портов. Потом еще тащить эти сундуки через пол карты. При лично моем онлайне я конкретно пролетаю, если получается поиграть в прайм, то совсем не хочется убивать это время на гринд.. Новое дерево вообще посеяли дропом в порты, некоторым аж в столицы. Купи твинка? Сиди в порту, переставляй контракты? Тошнит уже от этого, ей б.гу.

Таким образом в сухом остатке: на колу мочало, начинай сначала. У нас было доступное всем нормальное дерево, и их осталось триста. 

Это вообще глобальная такая штука: не стоит человека, который пришел ПОИГРАТЬ заставлять ЖДАТЬ. Ждать пока наспавнится нужная миска, ждать пока приедет флотик, ждать пока отреспит черепка с пушками и корейским рандомом в придачу, ждать пока что-то дропнется в порт. Это просто очень **** стиль, люди не любят стоять и тупо ждать.

Резонный вопрос, что со всем этим делать?  Менять мехники. Я хочу соло (или группой в 2-3 человека) иметь возможность потратить игровое время и гарантировано получить нужные ништяки, типа тик-с, французской парусины или нави ганов. Покупкой за дублоны, длинной сложной миссией, как угодно. И чем меньше на все это надо будет тратить времени, тем лучше. Не халява, требует отслеживания и балансировки. Уверен, что игроков, которые аналогично мыслят достаточно, еденицы напишут об этом на форуме, потому что налетят разные ***** и начнут кусать, какой я безрукий недалекий дундук. А хороший онлайн он состоит не из супер рукастых ноулайферов, на которых вы зачем-то ориентируетесь, а из таких середнячков, как я.

Все давно придумано до нас: логируйте все действия игроков, собирайте биг дата, анализируйте, стройте модели. Складывается ощущение, что у вас всего этого нет, вы многое делаете вслепую. Хоть какой-то анализ я видел от @qw569😳, а от разработчиков ни разу. Тоже секрет? Игры с прозрачными описанными механиками и возможностью хоть какого-то моддинга всегда были популярны. Программер, который добавил API в NA очень прозорливый человек, na-map стал неотъемлемой и необходимой частью игры, @Felix Victor стоит памятник поставить в тортуге. Скрытие данных по капу это шаг в противоположном направлении.

Так вот сумбурно получилось...

Edited June 20, 2020 by SnovaZdorowa

[admin]

17 minutes ago, SnovaZdorowa said:

 

Все давно придумано до нас: логируйте все действия игроков, собирайте биг дата, анализируйте, стройте модели. Складывается ощущение, что у вас всего этого нет, вы многое делаете вслепую. Хоть какой-то анализ я видел от @qw569😳, а от разработчиков ни разу. Тоже секрет? Игры с прозрачными описанными механиками и возможностью хоть какого-то моддинга всегда были популярны. Программер, который добавил API в NA очень прозорливый человек, na-map стал неотъемлемой и необходимой частью игры, @Felix Victor стоит памятник поставить в тортуге. Скрытие данных по капу это шаг в противоположном направлении.

Так вот сумбурно получилось...

да где скрыли то @qw569😳 вывесил точные цифры которые все видели годами - просто реакция на них была у народа странная
поныли и оставили.  

[SnovaZdorowa]

5 minutes ago, admin said:

да где скрыли то

можно рассчитывать на отдельный *обновляемый* пост с указанием всех максимальных ограничений характеристик кораблей? хп, броня, скорость, репайр и прочее?
вообще супер, если эта информация будет ингейм или в апи. *актуальная*

Edited June 20, 2020 by SnovaZdorowa

[admin]

2 hours ago, ChineseBatman said:

 

So all those complaining that fir fir is now useless.

 

Our goal is to have all timbers to be useful and unique in something, with obvious negatives in other things.
Let's take fir for example

• Firs bends well that's why they resist pressure better when masts are under pressure of wind, and even damaged they keep some HP.
  • That's why Fir ships have more splinter damage resistance and more mast hp.
• But it's a soft wood so it should be penetrated very easily
• Fir a fast because its 31lb per cubic foot vs white oak 48 per cubic foot when seasoned ships are lighter and accelerate faster
• I know it might not be the best combat wood, but its the best escape wood as no-one can catch you if you dont intend to fight.
• It is also a best interceptor wood as you definitely faster than anyone and can help a heavy support group stop someone
• And perhaps its a very good kiting wood as you have amazing turn inertia and speed and acceleration as your thickness penalties are not so obvious from 500m

This was a theory of course, practice will show

The fact people don't see benefits of fir means they are not good enough as they should be obvious. 
On the other hand the mast thickness is overdone in some woods and should be tuned. We see battles lasting much longer (in heavy ships)