Patch 30: Combat and boarding feedback

[mikawa]

As the main topic is locked now, just one last word about game mechanics:

I am a long term casual player and I have seen many different directions this game has taken over the long run of development. As it is now, I see a big problem for small ships.

In short term usage all small ships have their own right & reason to exist, because you need them to level up. In long term usage they are quite useless now. All ship models were made with love & passion, so they deserve to have a certain place in game also in long term playing.

Long term playing as it is now means to get a ship towards to upper tier (2nd to 1st rate) equip it with powerful upgrades and then gank all other people which have smaller ships. Ganking is easy because big ships can be made faster than small ones. Frigates in history were always necessary and important support ships. In NA they are not worth a penny now. This is a pity.

I persoanlly love the corvettes & frigates more than line ships. I would wish that the game provides a meaningful way to use them in the game and that the game forces not all players to be in line ships. At least now I don't see this way -- not at all.

What makes this even worse is the fact that new players have to go to foreign waters now if they want to collect chests. So they are forced to enter enemy waters and experienced players only have to wait there in their 3rd / 2nd /1st rates to gank them. This seems to be very unbalanced.

[Meraun]

2 minutes ago, mikawa said:

As the main topic is locked now, just one last word about game mechanics:

I am a long term casual player and I have seen many different directions this game has taken over the long run of development. As it is now, I see a big problem for small ships.

In short term usage all small ships have their own right & reason to exist, because you need them to level up. In long term usage they are quite useless now. All ship models were made with love & passion, so they deserve to have a certain place in game also in long term playing.

Long term playing as it is now means to get a ship towards to upper tier (2nd to 1st rate) equip it with powerful upgrades and then gank all other people which have smaller ships. Ganking is easy because big ships can be made faster than small ones. Frigates in history were always necessary and important support ships. In NA they are not worth a penny now. This is a pity.

I persoanlly love the corvettes & frigates more than line ships. I would wish that the game provides a meaningful way to use them in the game and that the game forces not all players to be in line ships. At least now I don't see this way -- not at all.

What makes this even worse is the fact that new players have to go to foreign waters now if they want to collect chests. So they are forced to enter enemy waters and experienced players only have to wait there in their 3rd / 2nd /1st rates to gank them. This seems to be very unbalanced.

The @admin said they will look into SoL Spees. all we need is a Speed-Nerf for SoL. If they are not able to catch Frigates and are slower in OW, we woud be good to go.

-6th for shallow Waters

-5th Rates for most OW activies (Traderhunting, OW PvP, Raid's into enemy Water, Supporting Sol)

-4th - 1st SoL PB, Siegeing Enemy Ports and C-Zones, big Battles, Screening

 

 

[Teutonic]

I honestly do like the carro changes to 4th rates.

But I strongly believe that it won't change that the inger and wapen are still weak. Their main issue is their low hitpoints, both need an increase of 300-750hps.

[HoneyBaddger]

18 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

I honestly do like the carro changes to 4th rates.

But I strongly believe that it won't change that the inger and wapen are still weak. Their main issue is their low hitpoints, both need an increase of 300-750hps.

Every ship cant be monsters

[Teutonic]

47 minutes ago, HoneyBaddger said:

Every ship cant be monsters

If we are serious about making permit ships "stronger" then the 4th rates are the opposite of this mindset.

In a balanced meta every ship would have a use, currently a few ships have some niches uses and the rest are just "use X because it's better than Y and Z." That's poor balancing.

[Farrago]

4 hours ago, Teutonic said:

In a balanced meta every ship would have a use, currently a few ships have some niches uses and the rest are just "use X because it's better than Y and Z." That's poor balancing.

We’re not there yet... I don’t even know if the Devs are trying to get there... but the “balance” could also be achieved by X is more powerful than Y and Z but Z is easy to obtain and Y costs half of what X does to operate.

I still think the ultimate best solution would be line ships are difficult to get or build, but there is a clear path to do it — Not random. However, once you have a line ship, it’s not just the risk of losing it that is the cost but that it actually takes an investment to sail it. I’m taking about docking fees based on ship size/power with a percentage of the fees paid to port owner. Take your line ship out for free, but to bring it into a port costs reals. You save money if you sink. Lol

[Kala4]

26 minutes ago, Michael Corvinus said:

Here you go fan boy, if you bothered to look at the exciting times ahead posts. "We understand that it causes a lot of inconvenience to a lot of you. We arranging with valve to add the Early Access bonus ship Pandora to all early access buyers as Free DLC that will be redeemable once every 24 hours. It will take time but will definitely happen in March."

 

We are reqiured to give first warnings in public

DLC ships depend on approval from Valve (you are buying the game and all its content from Valve not game labs). Maybe approval is still not given

You were asked a simple unprovoking question and started name calling fanboy. If this continue you posting right will be deleted.  Rules applied - Rule 1 respectful conversation, Rule 2 Rants not allowed. 
 

[Hethwill]

@Michael Corvinus @Angus MacDuff

this thread is Combat and Boarding Feedback.

Forum Rules, 13.

 

[Zlatkowar]

Quote

• Patrol rewards updated (and slightly increased)

I was so much hoping that the patrol rewards update had something to do with reducing the damage threshold for each tier, in particular for shallow patrols, but I see that you've only reduced rewards, while admiralty upgrades prices (such as strong bow and stern) has gone from 3 CMs to 10. 

[Sea Archer]

Today I found out that during boarding I can still send the crew to different stations like guns and sails without influencing the boarding action. I think that during boarding every man, at least the full boarding crew, shoud be fighting and cannot be send to other stations, so that when boarding is interrupted it takes some time to bring the ship back in the cannon fighting mode.

[huliotkd]

Hotfix deployed April 5th

• Fixed battles bug in protected capital waters that opened them to other nations
• Tuned HP for many ships (almost all ships) most significant increases were applied to light ships so they are not so squishy against each other.
• Bot upgrades rebalanced (turning greatly reduced/penetration slightly increased)
• Navy Mast Bands are now 2x more expensive

 

 

sorry but General Feedbak is a locked thread so i write here.

please @adminreduce back the HP for many ships...we are now back to pre-patch situation where a 5th rate can easyly receive a 1st rate's full broadside without risking nothing...just losing an armor side, and 1 or 2 point of structure.   a 5th VS a 1st rates broadsides must be wiped to 0, MUST

please, thanks

[Holm Hansen]

59 minutes ago, huliotkd said:

....

please @adminreduce back the HP for many ships...we are now back to pre-patch situation where a 5th rate can easyly receive a 1st rate's full broadside without risking nothing...just losing an armor side, and 1 or 2 point of structure.   a 5th VS a 1st rates broadsides must be wiped to 0, MUST

please, thanks

Do you want an arcade game?

I´m happy that the frigate vs. frigate fights regain some tactical depth and are not 4-5 hit actions, like before.

It think it will not be difficult for you to shoot twice on them in your lineship.

 

... although some frigates have gotten nothing from this HP buff, which irritate me at most for the Essex. But it can also have been intended, to balance her good firepower and turn ability.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Holm Hansen

[Sir Loorkon]

11 minutes ago, Holm Hansen said:

Do you want an arcade game?

I´m happy that the frigates fights each other again with some tactical depth and no 3-4 hit actions.

It think it will not be difficult for you to shoot twice on them in your lineship.

.. although some frigates have gotten nothing from this HP buff, which irritate me at most for the essex. But it can also have been intended.

I completely agree with you. Btw. you raised an interesting point with the Essex. That was a really good ship before, even compared with the Endymion or Trinco. Now it feels week.

[Holm Hansen]

25 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

....

 Btw. you raised an interesting point with the Essex. That was a really good ship before, even compared with the Endymion or Trinco. Now it feels week.

sorry I was probably too fast to edit

I agree with you, but I have added a possible reason for it. Of course, the Trinco and Endy have the same or even more firepower, but when i refer balancing reasons, was it oriented  to the ingame battle rating.

Although i would be happy if her HP adjusted to the other heavy frigates. Maybe not as much as the trinco but a bit more than now. Maybe her battle rating could then be adjusted a bit too, but how the essex is now,  she is really weak.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Holm Hansen

[huliotkd]

42 minutes ago, Holm Hansen said:

Do you want an arcade game?

I´m happy that the frigate vs. frigate fights regain some tactical depth and are not 4-5 hit actions, like before.

It think it will not be difficult for you to shoot twice on them in your lineship.

 

... although some frigates have gotten nothing from this HP buff, which irritate me at most for the Essex. But it can also have been intended, to balance her good firepower and turn ability.

i wrote frigate VS lineship....5th rate VS 1st rate.  same rates match is and was equal and correct, i'm talking about different rates fight. a superior rate must easy kill a lower rate ship and a top rate ship (1st rate) must insta-kill a 4-rates-lower ship like a 5th rate.

no arcade game needed.

[Ligatorswe]

1 hour ago, huliotkd said:

 

sorry but General Feedbak is a locked thread so i write here.

please @adminreduce back the HP for many ships...we are now back to pre-patch situation where a 5th rate can easyly receive a 1st rate's full broadside without risking nothing...just losing an armor side, and 1 or 2 point of structure.   a 5th VS a 1st rates broadsides must be wiped to 0, MUST

please, thanks

Well. IRL, histocially, the frigates could survive a braodside. I actually think they made it ok as it is.

[AeRoTR]

What I understand SOL require more hp buff or it is like pre-damage patch except carronades are more powerful.

May be buff 24 pounder cannons and bigger cannons. Do not buff carronades. 

 

[Angus MacDuff]

3 minutes ago, Ligatorswe said:

Well. IRL, histocially, the frigates could survive a braodside. I actually think they made it ok as it is.

Not so.  At Aboukir Bay, French frigate Serieuse took one broadside from a 3rd rate and was left a floating wreck, later abandoned.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Angus MacDuff

[AeRoTR]

1 minute ago, Ligatorswe said:

Well. IRL, histocially, the frigates could survive a braodside. I actually think they made it ok as it is.

But they should be crippled, now they are not. 

[huliotkd]

15 minutes ago, Ligatorswe said:

Well. IRL, histocially, the frigates could survive a braodside. I actually think they made it ok as it is.

yes they survive, but they surrend or they are out of battle cause damages.

to simulate this in a game, they have to sunk. so a reduction of lower rates HP is necessary.  @admin should take as starting point actual 1st rates HP and broadsides weight and raise down the lower ship's rates HP until the 5th rates die with 1 single full 1st rates broadside.

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by huliotkd

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

We have came back nearly to the pre patch state, and carro are still op.. 

[huliotkd]

23 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

What I understand SOL require more hp buff or it is like pre-damage patch except carronades are more powerful.

May be buff 24 pounder cannons and bigger cannons. Do not buff carronades. 

 

nope, they have to reduce HP of lower rates.

but also buffing big guns can resolve the problem.

[SantaRoja]

Should be fine to add a morale shock that cause the ship to surrend, so SOL will be very dangerous against frigate and lower.

[Holm Hansen]

if i´m in a frigate and side armor + half of the structure is shot away with one hit, I'll think twice about attacking this 1st rate again. You can see that equivalent with surrender or out of battle. If you have to shoot twice on AI ships, that do not have the aspect of want survival, then it is not so bad either.

The whole thing is still a game and should be playable for all ship classes.

[admin]

39 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Not so.  At Aboukir Bay, French frigate Serieuse took one broadside from a 3rd rate and was left a floating wreck, later abandoned.

This 44m frigate is somewhat similar to Le Hermione (43m)
And its HP was increased from 6534 to 7000 in the last HP tunes (not by much)

Overall
New model

• Hermione HP 7000 (before tuning 6534)
• 3rd rate alpha in new damage model is 4500
• 1.55 broadsides to destroy side planking to 0 (+ 30- 40% of structure)

old model

• Hermione 4180 HP 
• 3rd rate Alpha 2240 
• 1.86 broadsides to destroy side planking to 0 (+ 5-10% of structure as it was only damaged when side planking was removed in old model)

Serieuse was on par with hermione and just slightly lighter than trincomalee (leda, hebe) and we are not yet ready for complete removal of heavy frigates combat abilities by making them useless against third rates.

HP numbers are still work in progress and might change by release and will continue to be tuned to perfection as we go.