Testbed Feedback - Battle UI, Localization, Patrols, Delivery quests

[Marquês do Bonfim]

Server is up.

[Hethwill]

@OjK was1 hour between Collingwood column hitting the allied line, and she became circled by four allied ships, and Victory column finally hitting the line. To note that the downwind vanguard couldn't possibly change tack and return to the brawl before the action was decidedly over.

but on to the combat:

- Thickness must remain throughout the engagements. Losing HP shoud not drop thickness.

- review thickness values to represent accurately the ships. A 74 and even a 68 was expected to stand in the line and having to contend with a 1st rate was an acceptable risk. I would think the main difference would be the number of guns and height with many thickness of the hull being fairly similar.

- SOLs were, as rule, built of the sturdiest woods, with teak being used on some occasion for the deck floors as teak provides good grip, during rain for example. Worth a limitation on woods availability to craft ships of 64 guns and upwards.

- review as soon as possible ALL modules and books that affect gunnery, both aiming and penetration and reload.

I'm liking the changes and would like everything improved, from the accuracy of gunnery at distance, to the fantastic modules, to the real walls of oak ( not fir! ) blazing at each other.

 

 

 

[Jan van Santen]

This definitely removes Leogane and LaMona patrols from the "doable" list on PvE server, since the heaviest ship one can use in there is Agamemnon and it now doesnt stand the slightest chance against the AI (which is mostly 3rd to 1st) in these zones.

It also removes all challenge in fighting player vs ai because uphill fights are impossible

Hard larboard first (tougher 5ths), hard starboard next (plywood 5th) ....

[staun]

3 minutes ago, admin said:

Not 2 hours. For pvp it was 6 hours on average. But your statement about 4 hours is not going to happen, for multiple reasons. If you are a real hunter you will adapt. But more people will sail slower (stronger) ships and you will actually get more prey. 

Well ppl can take 6 houre in avarage to get a fight if they want, they can take 20 hours. In the end all thats matters is if ppl wants it. We started with 3 guys at la Mona looking for some PvP ended up with 5 all in 5 rate. We ended up at Port Morat. We sailed from 23.15-04.00. We had 4 PvP fights. In the end we had to run chased away by an overwhelming british homequard fleet. Log in this morning, after 15 min I had a fight at Deadman. And I am only a casual player, that even don’t Care about putting upgrades on ships.

What I do fear is with the new damage we will screw up the balance in OW. Especially with the idea if Sol’s have to be expensive. But we will find out when the patch hits the server.

[Morty]

i had a vic pvp duel yesterday, fight was good, maybe a bit short (too high damage).The problem for me is the gap between 3rd rate/1st rate and frig

with a such damage model, with all speed mods we have, pvp hunting ll start with 32lb equiped ships , not less

this is my feeling, maybe i m wrong.... and sorry for my bad english:)

[SnovaZdorowa]

I have a one question:

Are speed/turn of SOL historically equal now?

[Sea Archer]

With the new, more realistic, damage caused by the guns, we need a more realistic damage modell.

Only hits in the lower deck or below, or for single deck ships in the lower half of that deck, should damage structure in a way that the ship may sink. Maybe even only hits below the waterline my cause structural damage. (As would be historical correct). The result would be crippled ships, maybe with a kind of jury rig, trying to escape or waiting for boarding. But still being able to shoot the one or other gun, that is not dismounted. In this damage model armour should only protect men and guns, while with decreasing armour the casualties on both should increase.

 

Edited February 9, 2019 by Sea Archer

[Guest]

@admin "ai doesent cheat" i swapped from my victory over to my aga fleet ship and check what the carronade bow chasers was loaded with  

[Pada]

20 minutes ago, admin said:

If you are a real hunter you will adapt.

But I can't adept to something that has no weaknesses. If i still insist on my old playstyle and sail frigates, i can fight the worst Naval Action player who is in a lineship and still loose because all he has to do is point his doom cannons in my general direction and win. All i can do is bend over and accept the new meta and use it my own. Sailing lineships all day which i hate.

[Palatinose]

17 minutes ago, admin said:

Yes yes. Finally

We have finished with the UI and almost finished with localization and now are fixing the long overdue issues with the combat model.

No ship should tank with bow and stern - check
5th rate must avoid lineships - check
DPS paradox must be solved - check

We have stated that we are FULLY AWARE that some players will be very unhappy, and we are fine with it because WE KNOW lots of players will be extremely happy. (much bigger numbers)
We do not have resources to continue feeding thousands average players to a 100 pro players in 5-6th rates (who sink in their 1st rate to hercs or belle poules and leave - because it does not fit the historical pattern they have been sold on all their life).  5th rates should hunt 5th rates and 4th rates and sometimes gank 3rd rates 25 to 1. 

Model requires tuning but we are not coming back. A light 5th rate (like hercules or surprise) should be 1-2 shotted by a 3rd rate. Or devastated losing most combat capabilities. 

Dear @admin please do not feel offended by the following words, even so some might be sarcastic. What is your goal for this game? In the last year you stated on multiple occasions, you don't want this game to be for everybody as it is very hardcore. Now you seem to switch politics to go for numbers. That's fine, good actually. What I do not understand is the fact, that you tweak aspects of this game to go for full (or as much as possibe) realism (gunnery) while other fundamental aspects, like sailing are not affected? A SOL simply would lose almost every bit of its' ability to sail forewards when luffing higher than beam reach, a tack would require half an hour. Why is this part not addressed while the roaring SOL broadsides now finally cause devastating damage to 4ths and below?

Did you think this through? New metas will occur, those adapting to them will - as always - flourish. Why do think would anyone sail a 5th rate if the possibility of a 12.5kn fir/fir Bellona with prepared perk spawns right next to you, demasting (by luck - mmh no let's call it universal skill) you in the first broadside and even if you repair instantly it will just catch up, even close hauled. Do you really think casuals will be happier now because they will get killed by SOLs instead of frigates? 

You had something great, a nice balance: SOLs could sail irrealistically fast up wind, but therefore did not sink/cripple 5th rates and below in one broadside. It felt really nicely balanced. Now you shift one aspect towards more realism, while the other stays unrealistic. Overall this creates: more unrealism. 

What about economical aspects of maintenance and crafting costs: if you went for realism, perhaps one in 200 players should sail a 1st rate. On the other hand YOU KNOW (see highlighted part in the quote) that biggies are what people (quote: "much bigger numbers") want and buy this game for. Quite a dilemma don't you think? If you act customer friendly, everybody sails SOLs because it will become necessary meta, smaller vessels will have some spots in frigate or light ship events, but that's it. Negative: fewer diversity, harder start for newcomers. Following the pro realism approach, I predict to mainly see frigates in OW accompanied by some 3rd rates, but people will call for HMS Victory or Santissima Trinidad. Negative: smaller pop(?). 

I defended nearly every change you made in the last 1,5 years, because I truely believed it would finally lead to a better, nicely balanced between realism and gamyness, game. This one I simply cannot understand. Therefore the question of the beginning again: What is your goal for this game, whom do you want to please?

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Pada said:

But I can't adept to something that has no weaknesses. If i still insist on my old playstyle and sail frigates, i can fight the worst Naval Action player who is in a lineship and still loose because all he has to do is point his doom cannons in my general direction and win. All i can do is bend over and accept the new meta and use it my own. Sailing lineships all day which i hate.

but the thing is you shouldnt be attacking a first rate with a frigate for the start, and new players would expect a 1st rate to obliterate a small frigate  point blank in 1 broadside

[Liq]

7 minutes ago, Wyy said:

but the thing is you shouldnt be attacking a first rate with a frigate for the start, and new players would expect a 1st rate to obliterate a small frigate  point blank in 1 broadside

Prepare for more battleresult screenshots of ram dinark obliterating 20 noobs in frigates - 4th rates in his santisima solo :d

[OjK]

52 minutes ago, admin said:

Can you post the video of 3 mins destruction please?

There You go. With 20% reload reduction, that would be exactly 3 minutes.

 

[warriorz]

Good i just recreated an account destroyed pirate created dane no exp

 

[Pada]

13 minutes ago, Wyy said:

but the thing is you shouldnt be attacking a first rate with a frigate for the start, and new players would expect a 1st rate to obliterate a small frigate  point blank in 1 broadside

Was talking about lineships in general. Everything that has the bigger guns is going to win.

[OjK]

1 minute ago, Pada said:

Everything that has the bigger guns is going to win.

I'd love to see classic 3rd rate vs Bellona side by side.
Pretty sure, the results would be nowhere close to where they should be, as higher caliber means SO much more.

[admin]

10 minutes ago, OjK said:

There You go. With 20% reload reduction, that would be exactly 3 minutes.

 

on the live servers the side by side result  against the oak/crew space NPC will not going to be drastically different.
In fact it will be the same (time to remove side planking to 0 is tuned to be almost the same as in the old model)

(if you copy your exact maneuvers (DPS from both sides you might even destroy the enemy faster on the live server)

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

I agree that now broadside weight seems proper, the thickness malus when a side is damaged could be removed, as it's too much a "who shot the first broadside"

Also carronade & double shot dmg bonus should be reviewed.

[OjK]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

on the live servers the side by side result will not going to be drastically different. In fact it should be the same (time to remove side planking to 0 is tuned to be almost the same as in the old model

Well, here is also the fact that at some point structure is going at exact same rate like the planking. Which I like as a change, but it makes it soooo much more deadly. 
Look at 2:20 - when two bottom decks takes exact same amount of bar for both the structure and the planking. So even if planking is going down the same speed, the overall time to "be useless" is much shorter, mostly because when You're gone with planking, You're almost gone with structure already as well.

And it aslo felt a bit better, maybe because the difference between different SOLs were so much smaller? And with 100% agree that no 5th rate should ever get in range of SOL of 2nd or 1st rate, the curve is too steep I think.

3rd Rates should be able to pick up some fight, same with Agamemnon which should be able to fight 74s. That could really, really use some of the balancing.

Maybe a way to go would be more like "affect" damage rather then "effect"?
More damage to cannons, crew and masts, more influence on ship handling (speed, turn rate) but way, way less frequent to just instantly go under the water?

And - what I also wrote somewhere earlier in this topic - we used to have 18 lbs penetration gap, now we have even bigger gap for damage. 
The curve of damage climbs waaaaaay to steep now.

[admin]

37 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

 

You had something great, a nice balance:

We always said that we will revisit ship and upgrade rebalance before release. Here it is - the revisit is here.

• The balance was great of course but it was great for one class of ship. Cheap fast turner with heavier calibers.
• This balance was supported by the fact that 4lb had biggest DPS in game and 42lb had worst DPS in game. 
• This balance was standing because you could tank with bow and stern due to 25% hard limits forcing lineships to avoid raking shots.

When a ship avoids raking shots it tells me something is wrong.  You call it great balance.

[Sven Silberbart]

1 hour ago, admin said:

..5th rates should hunt 5th rates and 4th rates and sometimes gank 3rd rates 25 to 1. 

With this, i fear it isnt long and I am leaving the game *check*

Atm it takes much time on OW to find any enemy. If i find someone it seldom is the same class as my ship.

5th rate meets 4th rate. What happens in that case?

1) 5th rate turns and sail away, because he cant win

2) 4th rate turns and sail away because he cant catch up

How big is the Chance to meet the same class of ship or an equal group? Much too low to have fun with this game.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Sven Silberbart

[admin]

3 minutes ago, OjK said:

Well, here is also the fact that at some point structure is going at exact same rate like the planking. Which I like as a change, but it makes it soooo much more deadly. 
Look at 2:20 - when two bottom decks takes exact same amount of bar for both the structure and the planking. So even if planking is going down the same speed, the overall time to "be useless" is much shorter, mostly because when You're gone with planking, You're almost gone with structure already as well.

And it aslo felt a bit better, maybe because the difference between different SOLs were so much smaller? And with 100% agree that no 5th rate should ever get in range of SOL of 2nd or 1st rate, the curve is too steep I think.

3rd Rates should be able to pick up some fight, same with Agamemnon which should be able to fight 74s. That could really, really use some of the balancing.

Maybe a way to go would be more like "affect" damage rather then "effect"?
More damage to cannons, crew and masts, more influence on ship handling (speed, turn rate) but way, way less frequent to just instantly go under the water?

And - what I also wrote somewhere earlier in this topic - we used to have 18 lbs penetration gap, now we have even bigger gap for damage. 
The curve of damage climbs waaaaaay to steep now.

I know for the fact that if i copy your moves i will not have a drastically different time on the live server (against an weak oak NPC ship)

[Tiedemann]

For me the damage output of the cannons never made sense. Only reason to go up in size was to be able to penetrate at longer distance. DPS did not improve. So I'm very glad to see this change and imo it will make more sense for new players that it is a bit more realistic.
It was always extremely broken that solo veteran players in 5. rates could attack and sink/capture solo rookie players in line ships with ease. Either by stern camping or hugging. If the hugging tactic now is gone, this alone is a major improvement! Yes we will see a lot of crocodile tears, but these actions over time av given the veterans content, but also 

I belive by what admin is posting that it will still be possible for a single 5. rate captain to stern camp a line ship to death, but it will hopefully require more skill that it currently does. If it is to hard, then devs could just nerf the turn rate on the line ships.  

I have 2 concerns: Demasting - thickness and HP will most likely need reblancing. Would be nice if this was done before it hits the live server. I also fear the variety of ships used in RvR will be reduced when large line ships will so superior in fleet battles, but this can be balanced with BR I hope.

 

[Corona Lisa]

Buffing the already strongest ships seems like a strange way to balance the game. The reason for this is "4pds have most dps", while noone is using them since they have no pen. Everybody takes the biggest possible guns already.

 

Also 1v1ing a 1st rate in a frig is hard as fck already, you should try it @admin. 1 or 2 mistakes and your masts are gone

[Jan van Santen]

How about adjusting the broadside weight damage model to boarding than ? Bellona w/o boarding upgrades boarding an LGV shouldnt take a dozen rounds now....