Patch 14: Part 2 experimental patch increasing realism in ship behavior

[George Washington]

3 minutes ago, admin said:

did you know you can sort in google sheets? Enjoy 

It said 'you don't have permission to edit'. Maybe allow it? Also, since when Indiaman is 4th rank? or I missed something?

Edited December 7, 2017 by George Washington

[admin]

1 minute ago, George Washington said:

It said 'you don't have permission to edit'. Maybe allow it?

you don't need permissions to sort

[George Washington]

8 minutes ago, admin said:

draught is smaller for Buc - it has shallower draught than a Bellona (based on blueprints)
+ remember that this is a second pass of the tuning.. we might find some inconsistencies with real life and will fix it. But based on formulas its all correct.

Looking at the color chart that I provided I can say there are some problems, but players and your team must test every single ship if you want to fine tune it. I don't think players alone will be able to test every ship to it's full potential. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by George Washington

[Havelock]

So, i took a look at the new wind curves at @jodgi's Royal Speed Trials Society

The chart tells me the Endymion beats ALL other 5th and 4th rates (except Surprise upwind) at all angles between 15 and 150. Of course it has awful turnrate, but together with the natural high speed and the highest jib sail percentage (35%) its sailing profile seems just too good.

Also, the Victory was supposed to become the best upwind sailor, but now its the best downwind sailor with the Santi (31% jibs vs Vics poor 24%) taking that spot.

Overall, it seems like the differences from Patch 14.1 are way smaller now after the second update.

[Ink]

2 hours ago, Pada said:

Why does the Bucentaure have such a good turn rate for it's length?

Unfortunately there are some mistakes in ship's draught values which will be recalculated and fixed within the next hotfix

[Hodo]

2 hours ago, admin said:

some stats added to main post

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vpd0gIGgJNqaRYqAppB3IbX_TX8zNhx-nVY1jq72QFA/edit#gid=0

 

So according to your list, the 3rd rate is the same weight as the Ballona... which it is modeled off of.  Yet the Ballona has heavier guns, and is faster... and turns better?   How does this work.

 

And the Heavy Rattlesnake is the same weight as the Rattlesnake, WHAT?!

Edited December 7, 2017 by Hodo

[Bubba Smith]

I'm looking forward to trying this new patch out. 

[Liq]

Okay so I did a few tests on the surprise - The acceleration once the topsails are down is just insane. I am really liking the new possible manouvers you can do, e.g. going 6 kts reverse, then reverse-ruddering and get the odd broadside off (maybe)

 

[_Masterviolin]

6 hours ago, victor said:

Please ... tutorial for newbies ... please. Game needs it (and even more since - after part 3 of the patch - small ships will be more difficult to sail for new players).

Yes, we at least need an official tutorial video! 

[Jarlath Morrow]

Thanks for your hard work on all the ships!

I notice that you give stats for both the Rattlesnake Heavy as well as the normal Rattlesnake. A hint of what is to come, maybe? =)

Can't wait to test this all out.

[Niels Terkildsen]

49 minutes ago, Liq said:

Okay so I did a few tests on the surprise - The acceleration once the topsails are down is just insane. I am really liking the new possible manouvers you can do, e.g. going 6 kts reverse, then reverse-ruddering and get the odd broadside off (maybe)

 

That looks insane. How is this more realistic? Coming out of a tack without going below 5.8 knots... and being able to go almost 6 knots backwards when backing sails and depowering. It looks more like the performance of a rally car than a fully rigged ship.

[admin]

1 hour ago, Hodo said:

So according to your list, the 3rd rate is the same weight as the Ballona... 

And the Heavy Rattlesnake is the same weight as the Rattlesnake, WHAT?!

Bellona = 3rd rate but with decorations - same naked displacement same weight of the hull
Rattlesnake heavy = rattlesnake - same naked displacement same weight of the hull

Remember that guns and fit outs are added OVER the hull weight.  Guns include weight of guns and ammo for it. Repairs Rum simulate other things including provisions for crew. You can maybe check it in the lobby before commenting like an emotional squirrel.  Calm down maybe?

[admin]

4 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Many things people don't care about (Pray, dice games, sailing profile reworks,

 

I care about sailing profiles. I am making this game for myself first. I decide what to add first and last. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 hours ago, George Washington said:

It said 'you don't have permission to edit'. Maybe allow it? Also, since when Indiaman is 4th rank? or I missed something?

You save the doc in your own folder and than you can edit and sort it as you please.

[Nelson Hornblower]

Just now, admin said:

I care about sailing profiles. I am making this game for myself first. I decide what to add first and last. 

Well I understand you want to a make a game you would play, shouldn't there also be a balance at what a community at large would want as well? Should sailing profile come before more content? The decision was yes, sailing profile matters more than content. While it may benefit the few and in your view, that seems to be more important. I guess as someone who would like to see more content within the game and see more players flocking back, I'd have included this update as a later priority. Again, it's not my game, as you said your making the game for yourself first. 

[TheHaney]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

I care about sailing profiles. I am making this game for myself first. I decide what to add first and last. 

 

[George Washington]

6 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

You save the doc in your own folder and than you can edit and sort it as you please.

Good to know. Thanks. 

[admin]

16 minutes ago, Niels Terkildsen said:

That looks insane. How is this more realistic? Coming out of a tack without going below 5.8 knots... and being able to go almost 6 knots backwards when backing sails and depowering. It looks more like the performance of a rally car than a fully rigged ship.

Its not insane 
it feels insane because you compare it to old model. 
 

But all this is realistic and possible
The only difference is this: Realistic sail setting time is 45 mins. Realistic yard turning is 10 mins. 
Current behavior looks fast because yard turning time is fast and sail setting time is fast. Not because its unrealistic

[Niels Terkildsen]

It's odd: sailing the ships in combat has been one of the few things that worked really well, and yet now it's being completely rewritten. I sure do hope that this won't be messed up, because that'd leave NA with very little going for it. As it looks now (admitting that I haven't tested it thoroughly myself) this looks less like a change for realism than a change for a more fast-paced, albeit more advanced, sailing profile, borderlining on the arcadey.

[z4ys]

Just now, admin said:

Its not insane 
it feels insane because you compare it to old model. 
 

But all this is realistic and possible
The only difference is this: Realistic sail setting time is 45 mins. Realistic yard turning is 10 mins. 
Current behavior looks fast because yard turning time is fast and sail setting time is fast. Not because its unrealistic

Time to add crew exhaustion for yard turning that get replenished over time. like boarding prep does it increase or decrease yard turning.

[George Washington]

23 minutes ago, Niels Terkildsen said:

That looks insane. How is this more realistic? Coming out of a tack without going below 5.8 knots... and being able to go almost 6 knots backwards when backing sails and depowering. It looks more like the performance of a rally car than a fully rigged ship.

Looks good to me, slight adjustment needed and we are fine. It actually feels great and opens doors to some very nice maneuvers if you can sail. Sailing skill will dictate the game now. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by George Washington

[admin]

1 minute ago, Niels Terkildsen said:

It's odd: sailing the ships in combat has been one of the few things that worked really well, and yet now it's being completely rewritten. I sure do hope that this won't be messed up, because that'd leave NA with very little going for it. As it looks now (admitting that I haven't tested it thoroughly myself) this looks less like a change for realism than a change for a more fast-paced, albeit more advanced, sailing profile, borderlining on the arcadey.

i remember the first posts on this forum were people were commenting on

• flags waving in the wrong direction - most games were ponting flags and banners just to the stern of the ship
• backing speed - some people said we are crazy and sailing ships never could sail back (because all other games did not have it

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

11 minutes ago, admin said:

You can maybe check it in the lobby before commenting like an emotional squirrel.  Calm down maybe?

I don't know why, but this gave me a good chuckle @admin, thanks.

Though off topic would love to know why we don't have paints any more.  Even if we are switching to a new system maybe in the future (heard it might be like ship knowledge) it would be nice if we had at least old paints in game cause some of these ships all look a like and it's a bit boring.  Put them in the epic events chest and ship wreck event (do we still even have these) or PvP shop and i beat you will make a lot of players happy.

Back on topic though I was looking at those stats and the Connie has the worse turn rate or the 4th rates?  The Wasa still looks like it has better stats than most of the other 4th rates.  A common easy to get ship should not be the best of it's class.  The Hermione was done right as per why you hear no one complain about here.  She's not really great at any thing when compared to most of the other ships in her class.  There is things that go faster, turn faster, more crew and more guns all around her, but she's a good cheap average stat ship for some one in that rank class to use to grind and level up in.

[admin]

1 minute ago, z4ys said:

Time to add crew exhaustion for yard turning that get replenished over time. like boarding prep does it increase or decrease yard turning.

Current behavior is realistic and is finally comparative and is purely based on ship profile, not some feel. 
We just have make it feel right now

[Jarlath Morrow]

Just now, Niels Terkildsen said:

It's odd: sailing the ships in combat has been one of the few things that worked really well, and yet now it's being completely rewritten. I sure do hope that this won't be messed up, because that'd leave NA with very little going for it. As it looks now (admitting that I haven't tested it thoroughly myself) this looks less like a change for realism than a change for a more fast-paced, albeit more advanced, sailing profile, borderlining on the arcadey.

I agree it "worked really well," but I argue the sailing could still be improved. It used to be that 95% of a ship's turning force came from the rudder, and ships either sailed straight or made a wide arc right or left. It was like they were on rails.

If you think the sail-force is too much or applied wrong, you should give feedback. Since it is a lot of fun, please at least try the new sail physics (they have been in game for some time) before commenting.