Empty sea

[Grundgemunkey]

56 minutes ago, admin said:

Many players requested for ships of the line to be more rare (first rate spam) and more expensive. 
The implemented design systems achieved the desired result - there are less first rates at sea. This gives me great confidence that designs are not random and actually work (it just works) achieving intended goals. 

But games being very complex interconnected systems and less first rates might interfere with other systems that worked before. 

ps: do not understand why players like @Intrepido do not spend their doubloons on first rates to dominate his opponents?
Why no-one challenges and captures Nassau that seem to be giving amazing tax income in reals allowing even more ships and fleets to be funded. 

This could be the root issue. Any theories? 

change the tax  from reals to doubloons .... a port earns a clan 100k in reals ,,, so what ... how does that help  fund your fleet when the cost of buiding the ship to take the port is x number of doubloons that need to be grinded ... instead of  100k reals  a port produced 10k of doubloons then there may be some interest in rvr again

you may argue that doubloons can be purchased from the market  but i cant find enough on sale to build 1 first rate ..with clans reals

Edited December 10, 2018 by Grundgemunkey

[Jan van Santen]

6 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

.  My issue is I don’t like that all ports are neutral.  They should allow to attack the port,  take it from AI and keep it a week or just make them all traditional owned by historic nation and set them open to all.  It would look better than all the neutral dots that you can’t do anything with.  I’m sure they would love to have AI vs player port battles that way.  Hell even test out resetting the map every 3 months over there to give folks things to do.

 

No, no and no...

PvE  needs neutral and free ports as we can't take missions in other nations ports !!!

As we have to take missions to earn doublons and missions don't respawn fast enough (same issue as with AI, one has to sail  for hrs to pick up decent missions) ) we need enough neutral and free ports. Once again: 100 - 150 PvE players are online all the time now. So PvE server  needs way more AI targets first and a distribution thats adjusted to PvE (AI in Patrol Zones, AI of all rates in all areas again, 6th and 7th rates near cpitals were new players start. Also SOLs make up the PvE endgame, so we need more of those back, too. And we need mixed fleets again, since they are more of a challenge. 

Next: PvE isn't  clan based, its more solo player. Thus cappable ports mean: The 1 or 2 clans large enough would monopolize the map.

In short: PvE needs no prt battles, but a reroll as to AI or a distribution/number of AI adjusted to PvE. The system now is 100% PvP based and strangles PvE...

Edited December 10, 2018 by Jan van Santen

[jodgi]

1 hour ago, z4ys said:

Just happened. A clan in Prussia attacked a British port. The attacking clan was told to not attack said port. But not by Brits. This was request by other Prussian clans because this port is used by multiple alts of Prussians that are placed within the British nation. As long cross nation trade is so easy there is no RvR pressure because its much easier to use alts than capture ports.

Banished calls out from foul-mouth purgatory and claims that the above quote is misrepresentation of facts.

Quote

All that happened was warriorz was asking them not to, on his behalf. I said they can do what they want and other clans had no issue

See, @xDDDDDDDD? This is why I ask you to refrain from running headlong into the banhammer. Now my reputation is ruined! Everyone now knows I'm just your obedient forum sock-puppet.

edit: 

Quote

Lucky L (player) is the owner of several British ports (clan CH). He's been friends with many clans and players and he helps everyone a lot, as he's considered by me a philanthropist. He owns about 20+ alts (which shows how broken NA economic alt abuse is). He has alts in every nation, mostly using them for economic purposes. He's also a member of ALOHA, SNOW and probably several other clans. If we had to attack his British ports, we would, but given no reason (just ROVER joy?) we don't. He probably would give us the ports without a fight if we asked him for that. If we want a fight, we would simply attack other ports.

(little background story on the topic)

___________________________

Alt usage vs. eco vs. RvR is interesting, though...

Everyone: "We need meaning, depth, rewards and reasons to do stuff, then it will work!"

Also everyone: "I just bypassed all of the above with my alt."

Edited December 10, 2018 by jodgi
addendum

[Crimson Sunrise]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Many players requested for ships of the line to be more rare (first rate spam) and more expensive. 
The implemented design systems achieved the desired result - there are less first rates at sea. This gives me great confidence that designs are not random and actually work (it just works) achieving intended goals. 

But games being very complex interconnected systems and less first rates might interfere with other systems that worked before. 

ps: do not understand why players like @Intrepido do not spend their doubloons on first rates to dominate his opponents?
Why no-one challenges and captures Nassau that seem to be giving amazing tax income in reals allowing even more ships and fleets to be funded. 

This could be the root issue. Any theories? 

yes firsts are rarer but so are the players to use them, any game that looses players constantly can atest any change that it achieved the desired outcome. based on how often a ship is used. but its not a very complex game its pretty simple actually take ship out kill stuff get dubloons from missions earn reals from trading its practically boring with no real content, its not worth the time or energy for any nation to attempt to rally enough ships to go after nassau, the game doesnt have the activity to rival GB in active players, a few days ago GB clan BAIT had 1/10 of the server population online,  we can rally ships to defend nassau easily its why no one attempts to take it its not worth the effort.

there is no incentive to do rvr with the new system, by taking a port near an enemy capital u give them more ai to hunt making it easier for them to have them to farm. the new system makes it pointless to take ports near enemy capitals, the bahamas are a great example we have almost every nation owning a port around nassau, and its open to all to use. so we got almost every nation worth of ai spawning nearby.

why would any nation want to waste manpower and ships to attack a port that gives them no guarantee they could keep the brits from retaking it with sheer numbers.

[Hethwill]

...can't possibly give everyone a 1st rate...

I mean, devs can but... well... whatever...

[Crimson Sunrise]

1 hour ago, Durin said:

Less nation means less targets aswell ;(

no it means more targets given the games current population at the beginning we had 5k players plenty to fill so many different nations now we have enough to fill a single clans roster of players

[Crimson Sunrise]

2 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

...can't possibly give everyone a 1st rate...

I mean, devs can but... well... whatever...

no but the devs didnt need to make it pointless to even have first rates there is nothing worth risking them on anything the devs simply removed them from the game as a useable ship

[Anolytic]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Many players requested for ships of the line to be more rare (first rate spam) and more expensive. 

We already tested severely limited ships of the line in Summer 2017, and since then I think only a small, but vocal group - players that don't do RvR and don't themselves sail big ships - has asked for a repeat of the experiment. First Rate Spam hasn't been an issue for most players for over a year. After conquest marks became abundant, but still required participation to get, First Rate accessibility became quite balanced. Patch 27 broke that balance.

1 hour ago, admin said:

ps: do not understand why players like @Intrepido do not spend their doubloons on first rates to dominate his opponents?

Because he might be able to afford 1st rates, but his clanmates/nationmates who do not have the time or motivation to grind for doubloons cannot. And because even if he builds 25 1st rates to give away, he still needs 24 clanmates to log on and sail them. It doesn't help to have a few very rich players when they have nobody to play with. 

I see fewer and fewer people log onto my Teamspeak and in my clan each day as even the most dedicated and optimistic players tire of grinding the patrol zone for doubloons and see no reward in the form of end-game content. And the prosepect going out in big fleets again like we had so much fun doing before seem farther and farther away. The grind to fun ratio has skyrocketed for anyone who play the game now mostly for the end-game (RvR). 

I have probably 30 2nd and 1st rates in my docks, and I sometimes take them out alone or with 1 or 2 friends. But even so I am acutely aware that the risk to reward ratio makes it outright wasteful. Replacing a 1st rate means at least a couple of evenings of boring grinding just for the doubloons. This is completely different from having to maybe wait a couple of days for another Victory Mark, which can be bought or borrowed in the meantime if you cannot wait, or having to collect and sail resources which is a completely separate type of gameplay which brings its own risks and joys, and which a clan can help each other out with.

1 hour ago, z4ys said:

Just happened. A clan in Prussia attacked a British port. The attacking clan was told to not attack said port. But not by Brits. This was request by other Prussian clans because this port is used by multiple alts of Prussians that are placed within the British nation. As long cross nation trade is so easy there is no RvR pressure because its much easier to use alts than capture ports.

This might be a Prussian problem to deal with, but it is not a general RvR problem. Most RvR-clans craft ships in their own nation, and no clans would rather pay tax with their alts to an enemy nation for valuable resources than own the port themselves and collect the taxes themselves as well as being able to use the alts for something else.

[Celtiberofrog]

When I remember old time when we had this nice Australian guy who prepared every weeks a great commented RVR map report in youtube,

I realize how far away this has gone today...

The game has been improved for sure but at what cost ?

Please Dev, make some tough decision  :

Will developpment be kept on tracks as programed or will you reconsider it and focus on recovering playerbase now ?

You're not blind, are you concerned about the current evolution ? have you any intention to resolve this ongoing situation ? 

Maybe i'm wrong and you know that we have to go through this type of low cycle to finish that great game.

 

[Suricato Rojo]

Anonymity has also reduced the PvP.
Lets say there is a situation were you see several players of two different nations. Before you could know if another player of certain nation was from friendly clan o r not. Or in case you dindnt know you could ask. You could communicate with them to coordinate an attack or defence.

Know you can say without tagging and using the chat to ask... which is very annoying. At the end, al that PvP that could be generated, probably won't occur as you risk too much assuming (let say) that russian is friendly or no.

IMHO anonymity and no-chat politics should be removed at a tag distance. I understand its not real to see a distant sail in the horizont and know who is and what fleet we carries. But at tag distance you could be able know this details and chat with the player.

[jodgi]

4 minutes ago, Anolytic said:

I think only a small, but vocal group - players that don't do RvR and don't themselves sail big ships

I fit that description  No, I haven't seen any of "us" campaign for first rate austerity. I wonder what posters you have in mind? There are posters of the history, eco and wargamer variety that have publicly asked for 1st rate limitation and exclusivity.

[Slim McSauce]

19 minutes ago, Celtiberofrog said:

When I remember old time when we had this nice Australian guy who prepared every weeks a great commented RVR map report in youtube,

I realize how far away this has gone today...

The game has been improved for sure but at what cost ?

Please Dev, make some tough decision  :

Will developpment be kept on tracks as programed or will you reconsider it and focus on recovering playerbase now ?

You're not blind, are you concerned about the current evolution ? have you any intention to resolve this ongoing situation ? 

Maybe i'm wrong and you know that we have to go through this type of low cycle to finish that great game.

 

@Jeheil is the Youtuber you're refering to a sort of classical hero for the brits and a great narrator, we need him to come back and give us the weeks events! His A Letter to the King series was the best NA content on youtube for a while. I always liked how he sounded like someone from the time, but the daily maintenance falled right on his prime time, and many Australian players no longer have time to play anymore.  

Edited December 10, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Crimson Sunrise]

alot of players cant play or have no incentive to do so

[Hethwill]

40 minutes ago, Crimson Sunrise said:

no but the devs didnt need to make it pointless to even have first rates there is nothing worth risking them on anything the devs simply removed them from the game as a useable ship

They are Grand Fleet national treasures. They are supposed to be used by you and your fellow captains to bring death to your enemies and subjugate their ports to your will or to intercept their Grand Fleets and destroy them utterly in true heroic fashion.

In the meanwhile frigate captains are filling their pockets, same as all other raiders.

 

[admin]

37 minutes ago, Anolytic said:

I have probably 30 2nd and 1st rates in my docks, and I sometimes take them out alone or with 1 or 2 friends. But even so I am acutely aware that the risk to reward ratio makes it outright wasteful. Replacing a 1st rate means at least a couple of evenings of boring grinding just for the doubloons. This is completely different from having to maybe wait a couple of days for another Victory Mark, which can be bought or borrowed in the meantime if you cannot wait, or having to collect and sail resources which is a completely separate type of gameplay which brings its own risks and joys, and which a clan can help each other out with.

 

Changes to making RVR matter will be very painful initially but might make capturing ports rewarding (even taking into account occasional port trading). 

Lets discuss this in a separate topic.

[Crimson Sunrise]

2 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

They are Grand Fleet national treasures. They are supposed to be used by you and your fellow captains to bring death to your enemies and subjugate their ports to your will or to intercept their Grand Fleets and destroy them utterly in true heroic fashion.

In the meanwhile frigate captains are filling their pockets, same as all other raiders.

 

lol sadly that isnt how it plays out on the server u rarely see first rates duking it out outside of rvr sure historically thats accurate but interms of a game its boring

[Hethwill]

Just now, Crimson Sunrise said:

lol sadly that isnt how it plays out on the server u rarely see first rates duking it out outside of rvr sure historically thats accurate but interms of a game its boring

yeah... we players are horrible and we loathe to give enemies an opportunity to sink us  

( I am certain there's a ton of ships, stocked, that will be wiped on release that no one will use and they will go up in smoke... because ...salty reasons. )

[Crimson Sunrise]

Just now, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

yeah... we players are horrible and we loathe to give enemies an opportunity to sink us  

not what i said those are ur words not mine, whats the point of being a rear admiral if our largest ships are left to collect dust

[Hethwill]

Just now, Crimson Sunrise said:

not what i said those are ur words not mine, whats the point of being a rear admiral if our largest ships are left to collect dust

You have the choice to sail it. Does that answer your inquiry ? Is all about what you choose to do. 

Here, you have your Rear Admiral commission, now do whatever you want with it.

[Vernon Merrill]

1 minute ago, Crimson Sunrise said:

not what i said those are ur words not mine, whats the point of being a rear admiral if our largest ships are left to collect dust

So take them out....  

[Crimson Sunrise]

Just now, Vernon Merrill said:

So take them out....  

and loose them to a gank fleet outside my own nations capital no thanks

[Ellias]

13 minutes ago, admin said:

Changes to making RVR matter will be very painful initially but might make capturing ports rewarding (even taking into account occasional port trading). 

Lets discuss this in a separate topic.

I do RvR from very beginning very actively, all players I know who love RvR and keep advocating that it should matter not playing anymore. All players I know who hate it and love the game as sailing simulator still playing it and RvR'in out of necessity for sake of content. RvR has one winner. Only winners stay,and only as long as they are winning.

 

Edited December 10, 2018 by Ellias

[Vernon Merrill]

2 minutes ago, Crimson Sunrise said:

and loose them to a gank fleet outside my own nations capital no thanks

And how, exactly, is that different from before?  There has NEVER been a time where you've been able to sail a first rate solo with impunity.

Nor should there be.

[Tiedemann]

57 minutes ago, admin said:

Why no-one challenges and captures Nassau that seem to be giving amazing tax income in reals allowing even more ships and fleets to be funded. 

This could be the root issue. Any theories? 

This is kinda of topic and if you want constructive RvR feedback a RvR feedback thread would be a great idea.. 

RvR runs deep in this game. it has a huge effect on nations, trading, OW PvP and even PvE. RvR is made up by the players and clans that are interested in supporting RvR and doing the hostility grind, the screening and the port battle. Lately also those who are willing to support the cost of owning the port after taking it. When RvR dies out the game loses RvR players, and those players are responsible for providing a lot of content opportunities for the rest of the players on the server.

Imo main reasons RvR is close to dead:

Hostility missions where you fight equal BR AI fleet and the defending nation has an option to join with equal BR also, when you reach 25% the enemy nation is notified! So the risk is fighting 2x your own BR in line ships (1. rates). If attackers grind successfully up to 100% they basically get nothing for taking that huge risk. The xp, reals, doubloons and loot drops are normal or bellow normal in hostility missions. Imo they should be the best rewarded AI mission type on the server when it comes to XP, reals, doubloons and loot drop. The risk should give instant result in reward and help motivate players to join the grind. 

Screening is and always was a huge issue imo. It makes it very hard/impossible for small groups to attack a port own by a strong RvR nation or a nation in a strong RvR alliance that will assist with screening. So if the attackers can gather 8 players for their PB fleet, how can they get past an organized screening fleet of equal numbers or normally considerably larger amount of players?!?! 

PB it self is/was the best part of this game for me at least. You get into a fight with close to equal chance for both sides, it's a proper fight! I remember PBs to be a huge glorious fleet fight with a decisive end result, sinking most of the enemy or losing your own fleet. But this has changed and most pbs can be over before or with out one of the fleets actually taking a serious losses. And this makes PBs very little rewarding.. I personally have serious issues with the 3 circle system and consider it broken because defenders still has the option to kite the attackers if they can deny the enemy to get the most points. While the attackers main focus is the circles, then destroying the forts/towers and then the enemy players defending.
I have posted concerns and suggestions about this in the past.

After victory - So if you actually take the port, then your in for a reals grind to support the cost of owning it.. That's what you can expect at least form 80% (hip-shot-guess) of the ports on the map. Why can they not all break even at the very least, with out special features enabled!?

When ever RvR is broken/left unattended for to long or a wipe is announced, or the best the combo -> this games player base takes a hit/dive..  

[Angus MacDuff]

4 minutes ago, Crimson Sunrise said:

and loose them to a gank fleet outside my own nations capital no thanks

So the only way you know of to get somewhere in a 1st rate is to sail it solo from your capitol?