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10 minutes ago, do not say dlc said:

I have one:

There are not enough players, in any single clan, in any single nation at the requested set timer ready to challange srupl or rediii. I dont remember who ownes nassau...

It’s a havoc port just like little harbor.  With a lot of the big hitters rolling Brit suddenly not many EU can take them on right now.  Same issue we had in US prime time with the French.  to many heavy hitters rolled French or refused to fight them and buddy buddy that no one can flip the ports or even get agrow.  Its hard to flip a port when 5 nations come out and jump into your missions and sinks you.  Most of them not the nation your doing Afro so sinking them doesn’t even effect the hostility.  

We honestly have way to many nations:  Spain, GB, French and Dutch (yes I dropped US) with pirates being a nation with no ports they can be hard core mode. (Maybe give them Nassau or Kidd’s).

With this I would merge US with GB.  making US coast GB second zone like French and Spain have.  

Edited by Sir Texas Sir
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4 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Just happened. A clan in Prussia attacked a British port. The attacking clan was told to not attack said port. But not by Brits. This was request by other Prussian clans because this port is used by multiple alts of Prussians that are placed within the British nation. As long cross nation trade is so easy there is no RvR pressure because its much easier to use alts than capture ports.

blocking trade between enemy nations in ports will cause huge outrage but might fix the problem. 

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I have an other one: The given mechanics for RvR are very time consuming. Combined with the low playerbase it is not only the risk-reward relation (why should I own a port when it gets flooded with alts immediately) that does not work, it is the "time to spend - action" relation, too. In OW PvP I need hours to get one fight, too (often it ends up in a gank and run).

Edited by Sir Loorkon
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2 minutes ago, admin said:

blocking trade between enemy nations in ports will cause huge outrage but might fix the problem. 

C'est la guerre

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1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

Less natios means more people per nation

Less nation means less targets aswell ;(

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14 minutes ago, admin said:

blocking trade between enemy nations in ports will cause huge outrage but might fix the problem. 

How about taxing the trades between nations by 1000% (read this idea recently) or give only those clans access to the produced goods that captured the port? If you only block trade in ports, alts will trade at sea in front of the port.

Edited by Sir Loorkon
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I think the most important thing to do is to focus on what YOU, as a player, think is best - stop wondering what others may like. That will only get us haf-arsed suggestions and solutions.

The player number problem as I see it is (All numbers are fictitious):

1st release: 3000 players, 

  • Major patch 1: 30% dislikes changes, 70% likes them
    • Player count = 2100
  • Major patch 2: 30% dislikes changes, 70% likes them
    • Player count = 1470
  • Major patch 3: 30% dislikes changes, 70% likes them
    • Player count = 1029
  • Major patch 3: 30% dislikes changes, 70% likes them
    • Player count = 720

The reason for this negative development is that without an influx of players liking the new changes, you will only weed out players who dislikes them. This is perfectly reasonable for a game that is currently in the testing phase. I personally believe that this negative development in player numbers will stop once we're at the final release version. Remember that with release comes marketing, thus creating a public awareness of the game that it hasn't seen since it was initially put on steam as an Alpha.. (2015?) a long time ago.

Lower player-numbers during testing does not mean a decrease in product quality, it merely means that the game is moving forwards. It's a very niche game and cannot be expected to generate the same attention as many well established titles can.

I can GUARANTEE you that another patch will see player numbers drop even further, regardless of it being the best or worst patch yet. Without incoming new players, the only development in numbers you will see is the one cause by a minority disliking the changes - someone will always oppose change.

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- Ships of the Line - Remove the excess Dubloons needed but ramp up the resources needed accordingly ( if 9k doubloons needed in addition to the Permits - permits are already worth doubloons - something like 450% more resources needed, no idea something like that to balance it out ). That way you keep the logistics going and retain the need for Permits for the Grand Fleet ships. 

- Add ALL 5th and 4th rates as Admiralty rewards.

I agree with too many Nations. But that's just me, sole Impossible nation should be Pirates but I also see the nice communities of Kingdom of Brandenburg-Prussia ( can we have the name changed ? ), Russian Empire and Commonwealth of Poland Lithuania.

 

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1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

This is one potential solution.

Less natios means more people per nation which higher probabilities of a group-clan wanting a fight.

Most of the NA nations are empty. Without enough people is impossible to fill PBs or flip a port.

The less nations option is interesting but there are problems with it and taking away the US would be a bad idea for the simple reason that there is a huge potential player base of yanks who would only sail under their own flag(s).  One of the mitigating factors for less nations is the Flags DLC, which would allow Devs to combine nations and still allow players to sail under a treasured flag.  I believe that sailing under the correct flag is very important to many players and I don't see letting the US player base go without their flag as a viable option.  Besides, everybody else loves to sink them...

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9 minutes ago, admin said:

Many players requested for ships of the line to be more rare (first rate spam) and more expensive. 
The implemented design systems achieved the desired result - there are less first rates at sea. This gives me great confidence that designs are not random and actually work (it just works) achieving intended goals. 

But games being very complex interconnected systems and less first rates might interfere with other systems that worked before. 

ps: do not understand why players like @Intrepido do not spend their doubloons on first rates to dominate his opponents?
Why no-one challenges and captures Nassau that seem to be giving amazing tax income in reals allowing even more ships and fleets to be funded. 

This could be the root issue. Any theories? 

It takes time to leave old and accept new. Many are just passing of denialangerbargainingdepression and acceptance stages.

It is a common rule in gaming industry to never take back what you have gave before, but it should be ok in beta/alpha stage of the game.

I think combining simulation with multiplayer sandbox game have its complexities. NA is very heavy skill and experience based game, not all have time and patience for it. Additions to  simulation and immersion part of the game keep adding to these levers. If you are not up for that competition you have 2 options, sailing MUCH bigger ship than your opponent or have an ALLY better than your opponent. Cheap 1st rates fed that cycle nicely. With expensive ships, experienced captains won't want to waste, risk their time, fame and ships carrying the REST. Sadly RvR is the main content in the game and without few individuals carrying it there is no content for the REST. They can't jump on Santi to countergang few 5th rates and they can't sail 5th rates alone searching for enemy.  

You either need to provide proper content for the REST(which is majority) or change the game to arcade for RvR action. 

For myself I hope you stick with simulation, at least that is why I bought and played this game so long.

In addition I really think it is a mistake to force players to PvP as soon as the start playing. PvP should be an option not necessity. Give players time to grow up in safe environment, don't push them to die as soon as they are born. 

That much said, talks about wipes do not help at all. We are all tired of testing.

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56 minutes ago, admin said:

Many players requested for ships of the line to be more rare (first rate spam) and more expensive. 
The implemented design systems achieved the desired result - there are less first rates at sea. This gives me great confidence that designs are not random and actually work (it just works) achieving intended goals. 

But games being very complex interconnected systems and less first rates might interfere with other systems that worked before. 

ps: do not understand why players like @Intrepido do not spend their doubloons on first rates to dominate his opponents?
Why no-one challenges and captures Nassau that seem to be giving amazing tax income in reals allowing even more ships and fleets to be funded. 

This could be the root issue. Any theories? 

change the tax  from reals to doubloons .... a port earns a clan 100k in reals ,,, so what ... how does that help  fund your fleet when the cost of buiding the ship to take the port is x number of doubloons that need to be grinded ... instead of  100k reals  a port produced 10k of doubloons then there may be some interest in rvr again

you may argue that doubloons can be purchased from the market  but i cant find enough on sale to build 1 first rate ..with clans reals

Edited by Grundgemunkey
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6 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

.  My issue is I don’t like that all ports are neutral.  They should allow to attack the port,  take it from AI and keep it a week or just make them all traditional owned by historic nation and set them open to all.  It would look better than all the neutral dots that you can’t do anything with.  I’m sure they would love to have AI vs player port battles that way.  Hell even test out resetting the map every 3 months over there to give folks things to do.

 

No, no and no...

PvE  needs neutral and free ports as we can't take missions in other nations ports !!!

As we have to take missions to earn doublons and missions don't respawn fast enough (same issue as with AI, one has to sail  for hrs to pick up decent missions) ) we need enough neutral and free ports. Once again: 100 - 150 PvE players are online all the time now. So PvE server  needs way more AI targets first and a distribution thats adjusted to PvE (AI in Patrol Zones, AI of all rates in all areas again, 6th and 7th rates near cpitals were new players start. Also SOLs make up the PvE endgame, so we need more of those back, too. And we need mixed fleets again, since they are more of a challenge. 

Next: PvE isn't  clan based, its more solo player. Thus cappable ports mean: The 1 or 2 clans large enough would monopolize the map.

In short: PvE needs no prt battles, but a reroll as to AI or a distribution/number of AI adjusted to PvE. The system now is 100% PvP based and strangles PvE...

Edited by Jan van Santen

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1 hour ago, z4ys said:

Just happened. A clan in Prussia attacked a British port. The attacking clan was told to not attack said port. But not by Brits. This was request by other Prussian clans because this port is used by multiple alts of Prussians that are placed within the British nation. As long cross nation trade is so easy there is no RvR pressure because its much easier to use alts than capture ports.

Banished calls out from foul-mouth purgatory and claims that the above quote is misrepresentation of facts.

Screenshot_20181210-134816.png

Quote

All that happened was warriorz was asking them not to, on his behalf. I said they can do what they want and other clans had no issue

See, @xDDDDDDDD? This is why I ask you to refrain from running headlong into the banhammer. Now my reputation is ruined! Everyone now knows I'm just your obedient forum sock-puppet.

edit: 

Quote

Lucky L (player) is the owner of several British ports (clan CH). He's been friends with many clans and players and he helps everyone a lot, as he's considered by me a philanthropist. He owns about 20+ alts (which shows how broken NA economic alt abuse is). He has alts in every nation, mostly using them for economic purposes. He's also a member of ALOHA, SNOW and probably several other clans. If we had to attack his British ports, we would, but given no reason (just ROVER joy?) we don't. He probably would give us the ports without a fight if we asked him for that. If we want a fight, we would simply attack other ports.

(little background story on the topic)

___________________________

Alt usage vs. eco vs. RvR is interesting, though...

Everyone: "We need meaning, depth, rewards and reasons to do stuff, then it will work!"

Also everyone: "I just bypassed all of the above with my alt."

Edited by jodgi
addendum
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1 hour ago, admin said:

Many players requested for ships of the line to be more rare (first rate spam) and more expensive. 
The implemented design systems achieved the desired result - there are less first rates at sea. This gives me great confidence that designs are not random and actually work (it just works) achieving intended goals. 

But games being very complex interconnected systems and less first rates might interfere with other systems that worked before. 

ps: do not understand why players like @Intrepido do not spend their doubloons on first rates to dominate his opponents?
Why no-one challenges and captures Nassau that seem to be giving amazing tax income in reals allowing even more ships and fleets to be funded. 

This could be the root issue. Any theories? 

yes firsts are rarer but so are the players to use them, any game that looses players constantly can atest any change that it achieved the desired outcome. based on how often a ship is used. but its not a very complex game its pretty simple actually take ship out kill stuff get dubloons from missions earn reals from trading its practically boring with no real content, its not worth the time or energy for any nation to attempt to rally enough ships to go after nassau, the game doesnt have the activity to rival GB in active players, a few days ago GB clan BAIT had 1/10 of the server population online,  we can rally ships to defend nassau easily its why no one attempts to take it its not worth the effort.

there is no incentive to do rvr with the new system, by taking a port near an enemy capital u give them more ai to hunt making it easier for them to have them to farm. the new system makes it pointless to take ports near enemy capitals, the bahamas are a great example we have almost every nation owning a port around nassau, and its open to all to use. so we got almost every nation worth of ai spawning nearby.

why would any nation want to waste manpower and ships to attack a port that gives them no guarantee they could keep the brits from retaking it with sheer numbers.

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:(

...can't possibly give everyone a 1st rate...

I mean, devs can but... well... whatever...

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1 hour ago, Durin said:

Less nation means less targets aswell ;(

no it means more targets given the games current population at the beginning we had 5k players plenty to fill so many different nations now we have enough to fill a single clans roster of players

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2 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

:(

...can't possibly give everyone a 1st rate...

I mean, devs can but... well... whatever...

no but the devs didnt need to make it pointless to even have first rates there is nothing worth risking them on anything the devs simply removed them from the game as a useable ship

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Many players requested for ships of the line to be more rare (first rate spam) and more expensive. 

We already tested severely limited ships of the line in Summer 2017, and since then I think only a small, but vocal group - players that don't do RvR and don't themselves sail big ships - has asked for a repeat of the experiment. First Rate Spam hasn't been an issue for most players for over a year. After conquest marks became abundant, but still required participation to get, First Rate accessibility became quite balanced. Patch 27 broke that balance.

1 hour ago, admin said:

ps: do not understand why players like @Intrepido do not spend their doubloons on first rates to dominate his opponents?

Because he might be able to afford 1st rates, but his clanmates/nationmates who do not have the time or motivation to grind for doubloons cannot. And because even if he builds 25 1st rates to give away, he still needs 24 clanmates to log on and sail them. It doesn't help to have a few very rich players when they have nobody to play with. 

I see fewer and fewer people log onto my Teamspeak and in my clan each day as even the most dedicated and optimistic players tire of grinding the patrol zone for doubloons and see no reward in the form of end-game content. And the prosepect going out in big fleets again like we had so much fun doing before seem farther and farther away. The grind to fun ratio has skyrocketed for anyone who play the game now mostly for the end-game (RvR). 

I have probably 30 2nd and 1st rates in my docks, and I sometimes take them out alone or with 1 or 2 friends. But even so I am acutely aware that the risk to reward ratio makes it outright wasteful. Replacing a 1st rate means at least a couple of evenings of boring grinding just for the doubloons. This is completely different from having to maybe wait a couple of days for another Victory Mark, which can be bought or borrowed in the meantime if you cannot wait, or having to collect and sail resources which is a completely separate type of gameplay which brings its own risks and joys, and which a clan can help each other out with.

1 hour ago, z4ys said:

Just happened. A clan in Prussia attacked a British port. The attacking clan was told to not attack said port. But not by Brits. This was request by other Prussian clans because this port is used by multiple alts of Prussians that are placed within the British nation. As long cross nation trade is so easy there is no RvR pressure because its much easier to use alts than capture ports.

This might be a Prussian problem to deal with, but it is not a general RvR problem. Most RvR-clans craft ships in their own nation, and no clans would rather pay tax with their alts to an enemy nation for valuable resources than own the port themselves and collect the taxes themselves as well as being able to use the alts for something else.

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When I remember old time when we had this nice Australian guy who prepared every weeks a great commented RVR map report in youtube,

I realize how far away this has gone today...

The game has been improved for sure but at what cost ?

Please Dev, make some tough decision  :

Will developpment be kept on tracks as programed or will you reconsider it and focus on recovering playerbase now ?

You're not blind, are you concerned about the current evolution ? have you any intention to resolve this ongoing situation ? 

Maybe i'm wrong and you know that we have to go through this type of low cycle to finish that great game.

 

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Anonymity has also reduced the PvP.
Lets say there is a situation were you see several players of two different nations. Before you could know if another player of certain nation was from friendly clan o r not. Or in case you dindnt know you could ask. You could communicate with them to coordinate an attack or defence.

Know you can say without tagging and using the chat to ask... which is very annoying. At the end, al that PvP that could be generated, probably won't occur as you risk too much assuming (let say) that russian is friendly or no.

IMHO anonymity and no-chat politics should be removed at a tag distance. I understand its not real to see a distant sail in the horizont and know who is and what fleet we carries. But at tag distance you could be able know this details and chat with the player.

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4 minutes ago, Anolytic said:

I think only a small, but vocal group - players that don't do RvR and don't themselves sail big ships

I fit that description :P No, I haven't seen any of "us" campaign for first rate austerity. I wonder what posters you have in mind? There are posters of the history, eco and wargamer variety that have publicly asked for 1st rate limitation and exclusivity.

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19 minutes ago, Celtiberofrog said:

When I remember old time when we had this nice Australian guy who prepared every weeks a great commented RVR map report in youtube,

I realize how far away this has gone today...

The game has been improved for sure but at what cost ?

Please Dev, make some tough decision  :

Will developpment be kept on tracks as programed or will you reconsider it and focus on recovering playerbase now ?

You're not blind, are you concerned about the current evolution ? have you any intention to resolve this ongoing situation ? 

Maybe i'm wrong and you know that we have to go through this type of low cycle to finish that great game.

 

@Jeheil is the Youtuber you're refering to a sort of classical hero for the brits and a great narrator, we need him to come back and give us the weeks events! His A Letter to the King series was the best NA content on youtube for a while. I always liked how he sounded like someone from the time, but the daily maintenance falled right on his prime time, and many Australian players no longer have time to play anymore. :( 

Edited by Slim McSauce

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40 minutes ago, Crimson Sunrise said:

no but the devs didnt need to make it pointless to even have first rates there is nothing worth risking them on anything the devs simply removed them from the game as a useable ship

They are Grand Fleet national treasures. They are supposed to be used by you and your fellow captains to bring death to your enemies and subjugate their ports to your will or to intercept their Grand Fleets and destroy them utterly in true heroic fashion.

In the meanwhile frigate captains are filling their pockets, same as all other raiders.

 

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37 minutes ago, Anolytic said:

I have probably 30 2nd and 1st rates in my docks, and I sometimes take them out alone or with 1 or 2 friends. But even so I am acutely aware that the risk to reward ratio makes it outright wasteful. Replacing a 1st rate means at least a couple of evenings of boring grinding just for the doubloons. This is completely different from having to maybe wait a couple of days for another Victory Mark, which can be bought or borrowed in the meantime if you cannot wait, or having to collect and sail resources which is a completely separate type of gameplay which brings its own risks and joys, and which a clan can help each other out with.

 

Changes to making RVR matter will be very painful initially but might make capturing ports rewarding (even taking into account occasional port trading). 

Lets discuss this in a separate topic.

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