Incentives to leave greenzones

[Njord]

People keep asking for incentives to leave the greenzone and they are right, you can't expect people to be interested in RvR and be all over the map for hunting when you give them everything in the greenzones. Why should they leave the zones? Now I understand the zones are needed to protect the sheep, so they won't quit the game and especially new players ( I still don't understand why max rank players are protected by the zones ) but what reason do players have to leave the zones? None, except some wood types.

I think free ports should give a higher chance for 4/5 and 5/5 slot ships aswell as better trims and the reason is simple:

1. Risk vs Reward balance. Why should you be rewarded for hiding in the protection zone like a baby afraid to leave its mothers womb?

2. More traffic in OW / PvP, especially around free ports, more traders to be raided.

3. More reason for RvR. Capture ports close to free ports for easier access to resources next to the shipyards.

4. More and better ships available in free towns to get back into OW / PvP at reasonable price since people will spam them there for perfect builds. No tow needed for anyone.

5. People will do alot of crafting in free ports and there will  be more hull / rig repairs, rum and cannons available at lower prices.

@admin This would turn free towns into new mini capitals and still leave greenzones for those too scared to leave it / carebears. New players can start in the zones and be safe but shipyards and the economy will not only be in the capitals / greenzones away from OW and PvP anymore. Just one idea but we need more people in OW... and out of the greenzones. This would be a way to not force but encourage / promote it and take the game one step closer to a real mmo.

 

[Slim McSauce]

I think its silly despite all our efforts to push pvp away from capitals that they're still the hotbed for most pvp, not out of necessity but by choice. There has been little in the way of incentives to leave the zones. Although I'm not in favor of pushing pvp to freeports at this point something is better than nothing.

The only issue I see is that freeports being uncapturable aren't much of a change. It may not be enough risk to justify the reward if I can outpost at a safe port, pump out ships and not really receive any of the risk. On a side note if ship production is moved to freeports for the bonus a side affect that could happen is less ships being produced in nation territory. Less meaningful pvp? 

Not sure how favor people are of more 5/5 ships. My understanding is that the only reason we tolerate the RNG crafting bonuses is that the odds of actually coming across one are so low they're more used by filthy rich people or as a high end asset in trade. If the meta becomes you bonus slot ships then people without will not be willing to contest, or on the other side people with the means to produce many of the ships will dominate the pvp landscape. 

We do need incentives though so it may be worth a shot. But I think something like expanding on pvp missions (real ones not the arena we have now) and opening up rvr activities to a larger group of people will give the push out of the safezones utilizing the full map and not just the areas that see the most casual traffic being left to players own devices.

[Fenris]

22 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

more traders to be raided

This is one of the reasons for creating the reinforcement zone.

[Jerome]

1 hour ago, Fenris said:

This is one of the reasons for creating the reinforcement zone.

Please.  This game was released and marketed as open world pvp.  It has changed to something between PvE and arena combat.  

[Jerome]

Make very lucrative trade items in free towns.  Make more free towns.  That would set up trade routes outside reinforcement zones.  

[Njord]

1 hour ago, Fenris said:

This is one of the reasons for creating the reinforcement zone.

Pretty much what @Jerome said. Privateering / trader raiding is a playstyle and if it didn't exist we wouldn't need people to transport their resources around the OW at all as it would mean nothing but wasting time. Also people could still build ships in capital areas but with lower chance for perfect builds, so I don't see the issue. 

People who can't handle losing traders and want a completely safe economy should stay in the greenzones or move their character to the PvE server altogether... and people who are able to put on their big boy pants and take a risk get a higher chance for perfect ships when building in free towns in return. You risk more, you get more reward. Seems logical to me.

Raiding traders should always be a thing in a OW Age of sail mmo game. It's a given in my opinion. Otherwise we can do away with the crafting aswell and let people pay gold for "building" ships directly. Safe traders and economy with no downside at all on the PvP server is nothing but a joke...

1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

less ships being produced in nation territory. Less meaningful pvp? 

Well, can't be more meaningful than at free towns, if the safezones can't be captured, right?

1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

Not sure how favor people are of more 5/5 ships. My understanding is that the only reason we tolerate the RNG crafting bonuses is that the odds of actually coming across one are so low they're more used by filthy rich people or as a high end asset in trade. If the meta becomes you bonus slot ships then people without will not be willing to contest, or on the other side people with the means to produce many of the ships will dominate the pvp landscape. 

Simple way of fixing this is a only very minor increased chance or no change at all at free towns and a lowered chance everywhere else...

1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

The only issue I see is that freeports being uncapturable aren't much of a change.

Well, it's the best way to get hotspots for raiding, trade and PvP... if it would change all the time, people would get tired of moving their assets and rebuilding etc. .

[Jim Beamreach]

Give people s reward for PvP for done damage if u have done the half damage of hp you can get a PvP mark depending on damage lets say 2500hp damage 1 mark 5000hp 2 marks or something not only for patrol areas. And some gold.

[RedNeckMilkMan]

28 minutes ago, Jim Broadreach said:

Give people s reward for PvP for done damage if u have done the half damage of hp you can get a PvP mark depending on damage lets say 2500hp damage 1 mark 5000hp 2 marks or something not only for patrol areas. And some gold.

You get pvp marks for doing damage, you just have to sink them.

[Jim Beamreach]

19 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

You get pvp marks for doing damage, you just have to sink them.

Yeah great with the gankmentality. 

[Cmdr RideZ]

We should test it so that losers get a reward as well.

[Sven Silberbart]

Current PvE and Arena Game Style is shit. Bring back real OW Gameplay.

- Reinforcement Zone only for beginners

- Lucrative Trade route must be inside dagerous areas, never inside safe areas (Currently i can make much money with trading and nearly no risk)

Two simple things that could help a lot to bring back pirate life

 

[Archaos]

7 hours ago, Jerome said:

Make very lucrative trade items in free towns.  Make more free towns.  That would set up trade routes outside reinforcement zones.  

There are very lucrative trade routes outside the safe zones, in fact I do not believe there are any lucrative runs that are completely inside the safe zones. There are many players who do these runs and make a lot of money, the problem is the so called hunters cannot be bothered to do some research and find out where these trade runs are and try and intercept the traders, they would prefer that the safe zones were removed so they could camp outside the final destination port and wait for the traders to arrive. More free towns and more routes would just give more options to the traders and the hunters would complain that they could never find any traders.

[Archaos]

3 hours ago, Jim Broadreach said:

Give people s reward for PvP for done damage if u have done the half damage of hp you can get a PvP mark depending on damage lets say 2500hp damage 1 mark 5000hp 2 marks or something not only for patrol areas. And some gold.

Although this may sound a good idea, it is so open to abuse that would be difficult to trace as people would just set up to do as much damage to each other without sinking then head back to port repair and start over again to farm PvP marks. There would be no clerk announcements as no one sank so it would be difficult to prove that is what was going on. This was why the original xp and gold for damage model was changed. 

[victor]

To the OP: any thread on nerfing safe zones has become quite a chliché that has got old a long ago. Devs clearly stated that the aim of safe zones is not only to protect newbies but also to allow easy factions (spain, GB and USA) to build up a basic economy in a safe environment. So the argument "safe zones only for low levels" - and similar ones - do not make a lot of sense.

Add on this that still now a lot of OS PVP (outside the patrol missions) happens outside faction capitals, where people - including a lot of traders and people chasing IA fleets - gets jumped on a daily basis even with the safe zones.

Moreover, if you really like OS PVP (but do not like patrol missions), then set an outpost in Tumbado, Aves or La Tortue - sail around for five minutes - and you will find quite some real OS PVP action.

So basically my impression is that a lot of people does not want more PVP, rather more easy PVP kills.

That said, it would be a nice thing if free towns (or ports outside the safe zones) could grant some kind of bonus to craft or trade, but this does not imply that safe zones shall be nerfed: simply make unsafe zones more attractive or lucrative for PVE players.

In example: if NPC fleets outside safe zones grant a much higher chance of rare loot, this will attract PVE players.

So, summarizing: make unsafe zones more appealing but leave safe zones as they are.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by victor

[seanjo]

10 hours ago, Sovereign said:

 Now I understand the zones are needed to protect the sheep

 

 

Now that little statement says it all. The arrogance of some that play this game and spoil the enjoyment for others.

It's a game and people should be allowed to play it the way they want. Green zones keep the newbies in game. Green zones also provide a focus for PVP ers as anyone that hangs around KPR will tell you.

 

If you can't be bothered to go looking for PvP outside of a zone then you are to blame not the game.

Edited April 5, 2018 by seanjo

[Jim Beamreach]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

Although this may sound a good idea, it is so open to abuse that would be difficult to trace as people would just set up to do as much damage to each other without sinking then head back to port repair and start over again to farm PvP marks. There would be no clerk announcements as no one sank so it would be difficult to prove that is what was going on. This was why the original xp and gold for damage model was changed. 

If you get the reward only if u sink it will be not so attractive to farm the marks with this. So lets explain it more.

2 guys attack me in the OW i got no real chance cause of my lag of skill. I give my best to deal as much damage i can. But they sink me. Now i get a few xp for that. With my idea it woud give my best and will get a minimum of 1PvP mark and a bit of gold. So when they sink my ship it will shown in the Combat News.

If i coud escape i can hold my ship and get a few xp a bit gold for the damage but no PvP-Marks.

I hope now it is more cleare what i mean. Sry im not a nativ english speaker.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Jim Broadreach

[fox2run]

 Reward PvP like in old days.

Gold for all kind of hits making a good fight rewardable even if you loose.

Bring back multi duras so ships are easier to get and loose.

Make the first 2 or so ranks an PvE only experience. Maybe on a smaller map where you learn the basics.

Remove green zones altogether but keep long opening times for joining a battle. In this way it will be more risky in enemy waters and more safe (but not too safe) in friendly waters.

Remove land in battles and make good ROE that spawn players dependant on time and distance.

Think of NA as a game that suits the title. 

Everything that happens in the game and every game mechanic should enhance PvP not limiting it.

My two cents.

[Capt Jubal Early]

Just make it so trims are guaranteed if crafted outside of a safe zone and keep the low chance for 4/5, 5/5 would be my thought. That will move production around nicely.

[Palatinose]

What is the labour hour reduction if a clan decides to do that in a port? Is it 40%? I mean isn't that a very lucrative alternative? In this port you may also set the taxes as low as possible and therefore guarantee that people do their basic trades there. Those selling ressources: why the hello kitty ya keep doing that in the safe zone? 10% (basically 20, as seller AND buyer have to pay taxes) of all money just flows straight into nirwana. So: build your ships in a port that has labour hour reduction and sell them in a port (could be the same) demanding low taxes. The game offers here a fine degree of liberty and possibilities, people obviously are just too - insert proper adjective - to use it.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Palatinose

[Capt Jubal Early]

Also who gives a hello kitty about labour hour reduction when combat marks are basically free giving you all the labour contracts you need.

[Njord]

2 hours ago, victor said:

So the argument "safe zones only for low levels" - and similar ones - do not make a lot of sense.

It does make sense but the devs just choose to ignore it to comfort the whiners that can't handle a real PvP MMO environment and make up excuses for it. 

2 hours ago, victor said:

Add on this that still now a lot of OS PVP (outside the patrol missions) happens outside faction capitals, where people - including a lot of traders and people chasing IA fleets - gets jumped on a daily basis even with the safe zones.

Yeah but most of those that get sunk there are noobs, the players that the zone is really meant to protect but apparently it is more useful for veterans. My suggestion has the potential to shift the heat away to free towns at least to a degree.

2 hours ago, victor said:

So basically my impression is that a lot of people does not want more PVP, rather more easy PVP kills.

It's more of a long term thinking really. Look at Darkjoker for example. He farmed noobs at Jamaica for weeks in his Wasa. Don't you think it would be better if they were encouraged to leave the zone and become good PvP players themselves instead of getting farmed by elite players every time they get a chance? You have to ask yourself here: What is a easy PvP kill? 

It is a player that is too scared to PvP self-motivated to improve their game. All the top PvP players used to be easy PvP kills, until they kept practicing and became better. They didn't even have safe zones when they started and this was better for them. 

The now top PvP players were forged in the heat of battle, while the new players currently joining are dancing with the carebears in the safe zones. And when they become more experienced, there is no incentive for them to leave. As a result they lack PvP practice and stay bad / easy kills and the OW is dead because all PvP players are either in patrol zone or waiting at the border of the safe zone to get some poor noobs into battle.

1 hour ago, seanjo said:

It's a game and people should be allowed to play it the way they want.

Exactly what I am thinking. The way I want to play is PvP and I chose the PvP server for this reason. I think it is only right, that the PvP areas of the PvP server give an advantage in crafting or even more. People who want to be safe all the time are allowed to play this way but with downsides or on the PvE server. I don't see a problem.

1 hour ago, seanjo said:

Green zones keep the newbies in game.

Is this why the zones protect even max rank players? 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Sovereign

[jodgi]

50 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

...all money just flows straight into nirwana...

 

48 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

...Now the ports barely pay for themselves.

"We need money sinks, it's very important!"

<hides>

[seanjo]

1 hour ago, Sovereign said:

It does make sense but the devs just choose to ignore it to comfort the whiners that can't handle a real PvP MMO environment and make up excuses for it. 

Yeah but most of those that get sunk there are noobs, the players that the zone is really meant to protect but apparently it is more useful for veterans. My suggestion has the potential to shift the heat away to free towns at least to a degree.

It's more of a long term thinking really. Look at Darkjoker for example. He farmed noobs at Jamaica for weeks in his Wasa. Don't you think it would be better if they were encouraged to leave the zone and become good PvP players themselves instead of getting farmed by elite players every time they get a chance? You have to ask yourself here: What is a easy PvP kill? 

It is a player that is too scared to PvP self-motivated to improve their game. All the top PvP players used to be easy PvP kills, until they kept practicing and became better. They didn't even have safe zones when they started and this was better for them. 

The now top PvP players were forged in the heat of battle, while the new players currently joining are dancing with the carebears in the safe zones. And when they become more experienced, there is no incentive for them to leave. As a result they lack PvP practice and stay bad / easy kills and the OW is dead because all PvP players are either in patrol zone or waiting at the border of the safe zone to get some poor noobs into battle.

Exactly what I am thinking. The way I want to play is PvP and I chose the PvP server for this reason. I think it is only right, that the PvP areas of the PvP server give an advantage in crafting or even more. People who want to be safe all the time are allowed to play this way but with downsides or on the PvE server. I don't see a problem.

Is this why the zones protect even max rank players? 

If max rank players want to hide in a zone, that is their concern. When I first came to this game, just over a year ago the population was smaller than it is now, and everyone I spoke to on chat blamed gankers hanging around ports for people leaving, the green zones have kept the population at a steady 500 plus so far.

I think maybe the devs should try removing the F8 button when tagged around a zone for Post captain (or the equivalent) and above. See how that affects player numbers, I predict a fall.

[Nelsons Barrel]

15 minutes ago, seanjo said:

I think maybe the devs should try removing the F8 button when tagged around a zone for Post captain (or the equivalent) and above. See how that affects player numbers, I predict a fall.

As my russian is quite limited but so far i read that devs are nerfing the reinforcement with the next patch, so lets see.

[SKurj]

12 hours ago, Jerome said:

Make very lucrative trade items in free towns.  Make more free towns.  That would set up trade routes outside reinforcement zones.  

No it would make free towns the camped spots