Ship Knowledge grind

[Corona Lisa]

The reason for this is obviously to bring some kind of long term goal to the game. Thats fine, however ship knowledge is not very well thought-out imo.

2 big problems:

• You need to grind ships you dont want to sail with
• You have to unlock all ships in the right order, otherwise the XP you earn will not be saved.

For example if you want to unlock 3rd slot on the Belle Poule you need to level up 6 other vessels in the right order (Basic Cutter -> Pickle -> Brig -> Snow -> Cerberus -> Frigate). Thats just completely demotivating and atm im just ignoring ship knowledge...

And Belle Poule is not a special ship or anything, when you are looking at a big ship like the Ocean it gets even worse

Slot 1: None & XP: ?
Slot 2: Needs  St. Pavel (Slot 4)
|-------->St. Pavel (Slot: 3): Needs Bellona (Slot 4)
|--|------------>Bellona (Slot: 3): Needs Agamemnon (Slot 5) 
|--|--|------------------>Agamemnon (Slot: 3): Needs Frigate (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|------------------------>Frigate (Slot: 3): Needs Cerberus (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 3): Needs Snow (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Snow (Slot: 3): Needs Brig (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Pickle (Slot: 3): Needs Basic Cutter (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 4): Needs Brig (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Pickle (Slot: 3): Needs Basic Cutter (Slot 3) 
Slot 3: Needs  Bucentaure (Slot 4)
|-------->Bucentaure (Slot: 3): Needs St. Pavel (Slot 4)
|--|------------>St. Pavel (Slot: 3): Needs Bellona (Slot 4) 
|--|--|------------------>Bellona (Slot: 3): Needs Agamemnon (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|------------------------>Agamemnon (Slot: 3): Needs Frigate (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Frigate (Slot: 3): Needs Cerberus (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 3): Needs Snow (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Snow (Slot: 3): Needs Brig (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 4): Needs Brig (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Pickle (Slot: 3): Needs Basic Cutter (Slot 3) 
|-------->Bucentaure (Slot: 4): Needs Bellona (Slot 5)
|--|------------>Bellona (Slot: 3): Needs Agamemnon (Slot 5) 
|--|--|------------------>Agamemnon (Slot: 3): Needs Frigate (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|------------------------>Frigate (Slot: 3): Needs Cerberus (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 3): Needs Snow (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Snow (Slot: 3): Needs Brig (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Pickle (Slot: 3): Needs Basic Cutter (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 4): Needs Brig (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Pickle (Slot: 3): Needs Basic Cutter (Slot 3) 
Slot 4: Needs  Victory (Slot 5)
|-------->Victory (Slot: 3): Needs St. Pavel (Slot 4)
|--|------------>St. Pavel (Slot: 3): Needs Bellona (Slot 4) 
|--|--|------------------>Bellona (Slot: 3): Needs Agamemnon (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|------------------------>Agamemnon (Slot: 3): Needs Frigate (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Frigate (Slot: 3): Needs Cerberus (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 3): Needs Snow (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Snow (Slot: 3): Needs Brig (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 4): Needs Brig (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Pickle (Slot: 3): Needs Basic Cutter (Slot 3) 
|-------->Victory (Slot: 4): Needs Bucentaure (Slot 5)
|--|------------>Bucentaure (Slot: 3): Needs St. Pavel (Slot 4) 
|--|--|------------------>St. Pavel (Slot: 3): Needs Bellona (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|------------------------>Bellona (Slot: 3): Needs Agamemnon (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Agamemnon (Slot: 3): Needs Frigate (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Frigate (Slot: 3): Needs Cerberus (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 3): Needs Snow (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Snow (Slot: 3): Needs Brig (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 4): Needs Brig (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|------------>Bucentaure (Slot: 4): Needs Bellona (Slot 5) 
|--|--|------------------>Bellona (Slot: 3): Needs Agamemnon (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|------------------------>Agamemnon (Slot: 3): Needs Frigate (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Frigate (Slot: 3): Needs Cerberus (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 3): Needs Snow (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Snow (Slot: 3): Needs Brig (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 4): Needs Brig (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Pickle (Slot: 3): Needs Basic Cutter (Slot 3) 
Slot 5: None & XP: ?

 

Its not fun or motivating at all.

[Guest]

This! +100000

[Sven Silberbart]

+1

[Yngvarr]

This bad mechanic is bad, and needs serious reworking.

[Captain Lust]

+1

 

It is the one of the very few changes that i not only dislike but straight out hate...

You can put 10000000xp requirement for slot 5 on the ship i want to sail but why make me sail another ship ( that i dont like and that is probably underperforming for its BR) to unlock the slot?? I don't mind the grind but i do mind grind that isnt enjoyable in the slightest just so i can play my favourite ship at competitive level. Please guys you can do better than that.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Captain Lust

[Christendom]

+1

[van der Clam]

+! click the 5 stars.

Maybe we should somehow earn through admiralty the ability to sail preferred ships? Maybe getting enough marks in any ship allows us to by Admiralty points toward any ship we want. Once we fulfill the total points for the ship, we get the "Admiralty rights" to sail the ship? So say, I want the L'Ocean; I go to the Admiralty store, select the ship I wish to unlock (one one ship at a time), then any marks and XP i get sailing in any ship will go toward the L'Ocean.?

[Abram Svensson]

Maybe get rid of the Tech Tree.

Let every ship its own skill tree but increase the XP needed then.

 

I prefer to grind on a surprise for 25 hours instead of doing Mercury for 10 hours and surprise then for 15.

Or add ship XP to the low lvl missions (maybe up to 5th rate?) so we get fast to the good ships we like to sail at least.

[Blackbrook]

1 hour ago, Captain Lust said:

You can put 10000000xp requirement for slot 5 on the ship i want to sail but why make me sail another ship ( that i dont like and that is probably underperforming for its BR) to unlock the slot?? I don't mind the grind but i do mind grind that isnt enjoyable in the slightest just so i can play my favourite ship at competitive level. Please guys you can do better than that.

I like the general idea of ship knowledge, but in the current form it is irritating. First three slots should be general ship class knowledge slots which open when you get xp in any similar ship (rig type, ship size, number of masts etc.). Only last two slots should be related to that exact ship.

But I would also consider one further limitation. I think you should no be able to sail ships which are too far beyond your current experience or at least there should be severe penalties. If you have some knowledge of 4th rates, you should be allowed to sail 3rd rates, but not 2nd rates or higher. Or is it enough that we have rank related max crew?

[Ellias]

Shall we implement the same to fishing. You can't catch big fish before you catch 5k small fish. Brilliant!!

Cannons as well?

Edited May 31, 2017 by Ellias

[LuckyJack]

 Its a pointless grind that demotivates the players. There is enough grind in this game already. Most of it fun. This ship knowledge grind is like a plague. I can understand something like what Blackbrook said about first 3 slots being general ship class knowledge but the last 2 being related to that exact ship. That would be fine. They could even make it to where you need more xp to do it. The current grind does not promote people playing together due to you can more xp through solo missions in the lower ships. It does not promote pvp for the same reasons. There for this is a blight on our community and needs to be reworked desperately. Ship knowledge is cool but needs to be done properly in a fun way. This feels more like a job.

[sveno]

+1

Tried to go through the skill tree but couldn't motivate myself go past the second slot of the Brig, so i stopped the grinding.

I think such a mechanic might make sense in Naval Legends, but not in Naval Action.

The grind is not the game, the game starts after the grind!
 

[Captain Lust]

2 hours ago, LuckyJack said:

Its a pointless grind that demotivates the players. There is enough grind in this game already.

Pretty much this.

[Black Spawn]

If you want to take a look at the misery in all its glory just take a look at the graphs i made as seen in:

[jnovotny6]

lol, I guess I will be without knowledge, wouldnt be the first time.......

[Challenge]

Simply arrange it by ship Rates. Any 7th Rate gives you skills for all the others. Reaching Lvl 4 in a Lynx gives you those if you're in a cutter, Privateer, Pickle or any other as well. It seems the more popular ships in any Rating are not in the chains shown. (I suppose they have their own?) Experience from the Rate serves to unlock the next Rate up's ships.

I'm not against the Ship Knowledge at all, this is how Captains were made in the age of sail. That it forces people into ships their style of fighting doesn't match, is an issue to me. A good Captain (as in ship's master) will rank up faster than one who isn't, and that is how it should be. If someone lacking the ship's skills takes command of a Rated ship he won't use it as well as one who took the time -- but forcing him onto a hated ship only breeds animosity.

Whether points requirements are too high, or giving xp for all fights win/lose/draw (but not gold or cargo, of course) would fix it, I don't know. Forcing people into smaller ships to gain the skills for handling bigger ones is a good idea and accurate. But, as I said, it should be by Rating, not individual ship -- unless, also as mentioned (Black Brook did), later ones are for that specific ship.

 

[Ned Low]

and that is why I only sell stone block. 

[Challenge]

@Ned LowHow's the market?

[Werewolf]

+1

Patch is awesome except for the ship knowledge thing. Let you gain knowledge on whatever ship you are sailing...

[Ned Low]

33 minutes ago, Challenge said:

@Ned LowHow's the market?

Nearing clean earned 500k in 3 days already. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by Ned Low

[Thomas Messervy]

Take out this feature pls... Make all ship knowledge requirements be only with the ship you are using...

[CaptVonGunn]

15 hours ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

The reason for this is obviously to bring some kind of long term goal to the game. Thats fine, however ship knowledge is not very well thought-out imo.

2 big problems:

• You need to grind ships you dont want to sail with
• You have to unlock all ships in the right order, otherwise the XP you earn will not be saved.

For example if you want to unlock 3rd slot on the Belle Poule you need to level up 6 other vessels in the right order (Basic Cutter -> Pickle -> Brig -> Snow -> Cerberus -> Frigate). Thats just completely demotivating and atm im just ignoring ship knowledge...

And Belle Poule is not a special ship or anything, when you are looking at a big ship like the Ocean it gets even worse

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Slot 1: None & XP: ?
Slot 2: Needs  St. Pavel (Slot 4)
|-------->St. Pavel (Slot: 3): Needs Bellona (Slot 4)
|--|------------>Bellona (Slot: 3): Needs Agamemnon (Slot 5) 
|--|--|------------------>Agamemnon (Slot: 3): Needs Frigate (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|------------------------>Frigate (Slot: 3): Needs Cerberus (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 3): Needs Snow (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Snow (Slot: 3): Needs Brig (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Pickle (Slot: 3): Needs Basic Cutter (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 4): Needs Brig (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Pickle (Slot: 3): Needs Basic Cutter (Slot 3) 
Slot 3: Needs  Bucentaure (Slot 4)
|-------->Bucentaure (Slot: 3): Needs St. Pavel (Slot 4)
|--|------------>St. Pavel (Slot: 3): Needs Bellona (Slot 4) 
|--|--|------------------>Bellona (Slot: 3): Needs Agamemnon (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|------------------------>Agamemnon (Slot: 3): Needs Frigate (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Frigate (Slot: 3): Needs Cerberus (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 3): Needs Snow (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Snow (Slot: 3): Needs Brig (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 4): Needs Brig (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Pickle (Slot: 3): Needs Basic Cutter (Slot 3) 
|-------->Bucentaure (Slot: 4): Needs Bellona (Slot 5)
|--|------------>Bellona (Slot: 3): Needs Agamemnon (Slot 5) 
|--|--|------------------>Agamemnon (Slot: 3): Needs Frigate (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|------------------------>Frigate (Slot: 3): Needs Cerberus (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 3): Needs Snow (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Snow (Slot: 3): Needs Brig (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Pickle (Slot: 3): Needs Basic Cutter (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 4): Needs Brig (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Pickle (Slot: 3): Needs Basic Cutter (Slot 3) 
Slot 4: Needs  Victory (Slot 5)
|-------->Victory (Slot: 3): Needs St. Pavel (Slot 4)
|--|------------>St. Pavel (Slot: 3): Needs Bellona (Slot 4) 
|--|--|------------------>Bellona (Slot: 3): Needs Agamemnon (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|------------------------>Agamemnon (Slot: 3): Needs Frigate (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Frigate (Slot: 3): Needs Cerberus (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 3): Needs Snow (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Snow (Slot: 3): Needs Brig (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 4): Needs Brig (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Pickle (Slot: 3): Needs Basic Cutter (Slot 3) 
|-------->Victory (Slot: 4): Needs Bucentaure (Slot 5)
|--|------------>Bucentaure (Slot: 3): Needs St. Pavel (Slot 4) 
|--|--|------------------>St. Pavel (Slot: 3): Needs Bellona (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|------------------------>Bellona (Slot: 3): Needs Agamemnon (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Agamemnon (Slot: 3): Needs Frigate (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Frigate (Slot: 3): Needs Cerberus (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 3): Needs Snow (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Snow (Slot: 3): Needs Brig (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 4): Needs Brig (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|------------>Bucentaure (Slot: 4): Needs Bellona (Slot 5) 
|--|--|------------------>Bellona (Slot: 3): Needs Agamemnon (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|------------------------>Agamemnon (Slot: 3): Needs Frigate (Slot 5) 
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Frigate (Slot: 3): Needs Cerberus (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 3): Needs Snow (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Snow (Slot: 3): Needs Brig (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 4): Needs Brig (Slot 4) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3) 
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Pickle (Slot: 3): Needs Basic Cutter (Slot 3) 
Slot 5: None & XP: ?

 

 

Its not fun or motivating at all.

Yup just make it level up any 1 ship per rate tier. I get the grind but forcing multi ships in sane tier is just evil

[Challenge]

New idea. Let's get rid of anything that actually looks like game play and call it a grind.

 

[Guest]

When I read that some are already sitting in Agas and Oceans I start to think that the current system maybe is not that bad. If they now could fully unlock those ships without much effort then everything will be the same again as before the wipe. 

Edited June 1, 2017 by Guest

[Sir Texas Sir]

47 minutes ago, Jœrnson said:

When I read that some are already sitting in Agas and Oceans I start to think that the current system maybe is not that bad. If they now could fully unlock those ships without much effort then everything will be the same again as before the wipe. 

Yah but how many of them got them legit too?  Seems way to fast to be getting such ships with any normal grind or even a few empty port battles.