War Supplied from 0 to 100

[Thonar]

It should stay the way it is, with only a minor change:
PB will start not on the next day but 48 hours later, when the hostility is raised from 0% to 100% within 1 hour.

 

Why should it stay that way?
It makes war more dynamic.
Before we had flag-carriers and nobody bat an eye... now there are several carrier... so why not?

I enjoy the dynamic, especially since this way "war supplies" are actually quite a big deal, they are important to craft and can be prepared before a war, which means preperation and early success become a big deal, as it should be.

 

The current system of "PvE" to 100% is rather... well... annoying.

[HardyKnox]

 weight changed from 211 to 1000

 

Which is the cap on any one Delivery order.  

 

~ HK ~

[Powderhorn]

For those crying "double standards," the entire point of the hostility generation was to increase PvP by showing people where PvP could be found - both features repeatedly requested.  How does dropping a bunch of war supplies increase PvP in a way that the previous conquest flags did not?  If it does not, instead of focusing on "I want to win" let us focus on "I want to develop this game to make it better."

[Bad Moose]

How does dropping a bunch of war supplies increase PvP in a way that the previous conquest flags did not?

 

A dozen enemy Indiaman escorted by warships. I see an open invitation to PvP right there. Nation chat and TS should be buzzing with activity setting up squadrons to intercept and pick it apart. Did that happen or did everyone just move out of the way?

[HardyKnox]

A dozen enemy Indiaman escorted by warships. I see an open invitation to PvP right there. Nation chat and TS should be buzzing with activity setting up squadrons to intercept and pick it apart. Did that happen or did everyone just move out of the way?

 

And each nation should have an active Coast Guard patrolling daily in which experienced Players show Junior Captains how to sail together without colliding or missing the Group's goals.

 

~ HK ~

[GrapeShot]

Combine War Supply drops with attack fleets camping in battle screens and you have the makings of farce.

[Slamz]

What if War Supplies were simply a modifier on all other methods of getting points.

 

• War Supplies will have their own level from 0 - 100.
• This is a straight multiplier from x1.0 - x2.0 on all points generated there.¹
• War Supply count slowly goes down as the multiplier gets used (and/or just over time).

 

So getting war supplies in is still important but it's not literally how you flip a port. It just impacts all the other methods by making them generate more points.

 

¹That multiplier is highly negotiable. Possibly it should be from x1.0 - x3.0 or x5.0 or who knows. We want war supplies to feel very useful but not necessarily mandatory.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Slamz

[Powderhorn]

A dozen enemy Indiaman escorted by warships. I see an open invitation to PvP right there. Nation chat and TS should be buzzing with activity setting up squadrons to intercept and pick it apart. Did that happen or did everyone just move out of the way?

 

What you're describing is exactly what happened with the Conquest Flag system.  We want to improve upon things, not run in circles

[Hethwill]

Combined operations.

 

All factors work to the common goal, some with more importance than others.

 

50% - PvP and War Supplies are both the same coin, war captains and trader captains. They should amount the biggest slice of the cake.

 

35% - Epic Events and OW attacks on the main NPC fleets should be second highest requirement.

 

15% - Mission running ( without pvp inteference ) should come after.

 

So a full 100% hostility cake sliced up.

 

100,000 hostility points, 50k must be pvp or war supplies, 35k by attacking region major fleet or epic events. 15k reserved for mission running.

[Christendom]

While I actually like the war supplies idea, it's a bit absurd you can go from 2% hostility to 100% in the span of 5 minutes.  I checked the hostility once, it was at 2% and then literally within minutes someone in nation said "how the fuck did it get to 98%" and it sure enough it was.  There needs to be a system where the defender can respond to immediate hostility OR some sort of system where if war supplies are crafted and delivered it is announced like the conquest flag.  Preferably both.  

To those who say fleets can always be intercepted...sure, but please take a look at the Georgia area and how close St. Mary's is to the region.  Everything was staged at St. Mary's, it would of been impossible for us to defend.  Especially at Noon 2pm eastern time on a work day.  Props go to the Danes, I don't like how it was done but after looking into what war supplies takes it was no small feat. 

 

As is usual with this game, I like the idea behind the war supplies...but it was poorly implemented.  

[IndianaGeoff]

I would make the standard that ports are taken through combat before and after.  You want a port, you have to fight.

 

But war supplies can lower the amount of combat needed.  If you dump a small amount of war supplies (one full big trader), you get a 24 hour 10% bonus.  If you dump a lot you can get a 50% bonus (5 indiamen full).  Deliver supplies to all the ports in a region and you get more.  Dump them all at one and the effect is less.

 

Along with this, up the amount of combat needed to encourage war drops.

 

You can also benefit war supply drops by lowering the hostility dropoff if war supplies were delivered.  20% with no drops... 10% if war supplies were dropped... 5% if a big drop was made.

 

Final mechanic... if the defending nation does a huge war supply drop after they lose the port... it goes back into port battle and the attacking side has to do it again 48 hours later.  I would give this a huge requirement of food and war materials.  But it gives the defending nation a chance to turn the tables or at least make it more difficult.

Edited November 3, 2016 by IndianaGeoff

[admin]

Well done to the Danes for making and dropping 135 war supplies in a 'hostility bomb' (Trademark Pending).

 

No quibbles or accusations here.

 

More a mechanics question. Do we want this to be a thing ?...12 sailors in Indies...couple of mega circle taggers ahead....do we want this to be a thing.

 

Or should there be a cap per x time on y% for hostility jump.

 

 

we actually adjusted the weights of the war supplies today's hot fix. we knew it was a problem. 

We believe that it should take approximately 100 medium size traders to get hostility to the max. It will be very hard to not spot such convoy and react. 

We will continue monitoring the situation withe the war supplies and will adjust accordingly. 

[Anolytic]

Combined operations.

 

All factors work to the common goal, some with more importance than others.

 

50% - PvP and War Supplies are both the same coin, war captains and trader captains. They should amount the biggest slice of the cake.

 

35% - Epic Events and OW attacks on the main NPC fleets should be second highest requirement.

 

15% - Mission running ( without pvp inteference ) should come after.

 

So a full 100% hostility cake sliced up.

 

100,000 hostility points, 50k must be pvp or war supplies, 35k by attacking region major fleet or epic events. 15k reserved for mission running.

We would never see another port battle.

[Hethwill]

We would never see another port battle.

 

Ah yes, because of people hiding from PvP, that's where Supplies enter ?

 

By the way the 100k values were figurative.

[Salty Dog.]

I actually looked at crafting up a bunch of war supplies to do this.  But, after seeing how many hours and supplies I thought..... DAM!  NOPE.

 

Hats off to the Danes for being able to put together that much of a national effort to craft and haul.  

 

Now that we have seen that is CAN be done.  It really needs to be fixed.  I think the increase in weight was a good first step.  The problem I see is instead of hauling war supplies, a nation could simply haul in the parts and craft them in the county they want to set the bomb off in.

 

As a US player the aggravating thing I find,  is the US was actively protecting that region.  we did have a coast guard and since the patch the US had been doing counter hostility to keep the port battle from happening.  I thought they would simply give up because for about a week, the hostility would build up to 30-50% then the US would work it down to 0% and repeat  it every night.  To have all that effort blown out in a 5 minute hostility bomb.....well it's aggravating.  

 

Suggestion:  Perhaps the war supplies need to apply their hostility over a 12 or 24 hour period.  That would make it so the attacked nation has a chance to counteract the hostility bomb instead of just being going from 0-100 in five minutes.  During that time the attacking nation could continue to PVP and the defending nation could continue to run counter-hostility.   The war supplies would simply act to increase hostility during the 12 or 24 hour period.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Salty Dog PVP1

[Slamz]

We believe that it should take approximately 100 medium size traders to get hostility to the max. It will be very hard to not spot such convoy and react. 

 

Not gonna work.

 

It's like trying to stop a flag carrier fleet without the notification that there is a flag carrier fleet.

 

You have to first spot this convoy and then understand where they are going and then get a big enough fleet there to fight them before they can arrive. They might be fleeting 20 Indiamen so it really is asking a lot to spot this and stop them.

 

 

Should war supplies be announced somehow, like flag carriers were?

[Werewolf]

Well done to the Danes, that is quite the effort involved in crafting and delivering that. I am impressed.

[Anolytic]

The problem I see is instead of hauling war supplies, a nation could simply haul in the parts and craft them in the county they want to set the bomb off in.

You're mistaken about that. Unless they changed this again recently, you can't craft anything in ports you don't have an outpost in. Meaning unless you owned that region, lost it, and didn't remove your locked down outpost, you can't do what you describe. 

[Salty Dog.]

You're mistaken about that. Unless they changed this again recently, you can't craft anything in ports you don't have an outpost in. Meaning unless you owned that region, lost it, and didn't remove your locked down outpost, you can't do what you descr

 

 

AKA Freetown.

[Jeheil]

Jeheil: don't forget that you made a post that this feature should be easier to craft/supplies, but when it's used against your alliance it's need a nerf..

I like to see the brits accomplish this as a nation..

The craft itself is well over 50k labour hours and a toon of resources that cost around 20-25mill..'

Think there is alot of double morale going around here, and to quote the guy that we won the port without a fight is also not correct as we also need to win the port battle..

 

Jeheil: also told you that this was comming in your youtube video, this was a effort by your truly with help from RDNN and RUS..

 

And to be off topic aswell: Do we want screening to be a thing???? that makes it's so the biggest player based nation will never lose andy port when fortifaction in port battles come.. there should allowed to enter a port battle just by being in the hostile region and would make the screeners job more intresting...

 

Yeh I am not at all critisizing the immense effort (or surprised...given I kinda expressed it out loud...a habit of mine).

 

I think in an ideal world, there would be enough players in the game that delivering large amounts of hostility through war supplies would be a counter-able thing. I do think that getting 0 to 100% in a binary switch is probably not intended and the weight thing might do the trick.

 

One of the hardest things in 'testing' this game is understanding what playerbase we are testing for. So by example, if the playerbase is expected to be sort of what it is now...then I would say the trading economy needs more AI elements, if its for 3x the playerbase it might be about right.

[Fenris]

While I actually like the war supplies idea, it's a bit absurd you can go from 2% hostility to 100% in the span of 5 minutes.  I checked the hostility once, it was at 2% and then literally within minutes someone in nation said "how the fuck did it get to 98%" and it sure enough it was.  There needs to be a system where the defender can respond to immediate hostility OR some sort of system where if war supplies are crafted and delivered it is announced like the conquest flag.  Preferably both.  

To those who say fleets can always be intercepted...sure, but please take a look at the Georgia area and how close St. Mary's is to the region.  Everything was staged at St. Mary's, it would of been impossible for us to defend.  Especially at Noon 2pm eastern time on a work day.  Props go to the Danes, I don't like how it was done but after looking into what war supplies takes it was no small feat. 

 

As is usual with this game, I like the idea behind the war supplies...but it was poorly implemented.  

Why is it "absurd" to rise hostility from 2 to 100% in 5 min in a game?

Did Vietcong tell the US 1968, "hey we want to attack Saigon,all major cities,start a major offensive in South Vietnam,during Tet holidays,please prepare!"

Thats how coup d`etat works.

Surprise surprise

[Sir Texas Sir]

Suggestion:  Perhaps the war supplies need to apply their hostility over a 12 or 24 hour period.  That would make it so the attacked nation has a chance to counteract the hostility bomb instead of just being going from 0-100 in five minutes.  During that time the attacking nation could continue to PVP and the defending nation could continue to run counter-hostility.   The war supplies would simply act to increase hostility during the 12 or 24 hour period.

 

Needs a timer of how much can be turned in.  Say 25% worth of hostility every so many hours.  Maybe 4 times in a day so you can flip a port in a day over the day, but not all at once.   The turn in will be locked until set time than more can be turned in.

 

Why is it "absurd" to rise hostility from 2 to 100% in 5 min in a game?

Did Vietcong tell the US 1968, "hey we want to attack Saigon,all major cities,start a major offensive in South Vietnam,during Tet holidays,please prepare!"

Thats how coup d`etat works.

Surprise surprise

 

Even than there was a warning and they where able to fight back even though many bases where over ran.   Dropping 100% war supplies at one time gives no chance to fight back.  It's like dropping the A-Bomb on some one at the start of a war to declare and finish it all at once pretty much.

 

Cause if they can do it with this one port who to say with enough planning they can't just keep doing it until they flip all the regions?   Of course depending on the port battles and all.

[vazco]

I think supplies allow players to avoid doing PvE to raise hostility (as hostility missions are mostly PvE now). They also allow for non-PvP econ-based clans to have influence on the war, giving them a sense of purpose, which is great.

As long as hostility raising is not fixed to be indeed PvP-focused, I think war supplies are really essential, as otherwise RvR will become mostly a tiring fighting with bots. After hostility raising is fixed to be more PvP-centered, I think war supplies could be limited to eg. raise hostility to max. 70%, or to give a defender a better option of intercepting, eg. by creating a war supply scheduled event.

btw, Swedes used the system to maximum. It's one of not many regions where war supplies can be delivered so easily.

[robbindahood]

My concern is a port battle can be scheduled and happen with relatively no combat. I don't disagree with the capability. Keep it the same. But maybe there should be a step between 100% hostility and a port battle that requires combat...

 

1 hour after 100% hostility is reached. An open water battle is opened for 30 min like a mission. Up to 25 players can join. Attackers win. Port battle is scheduled. Attackers lose. Hostility is reduced a small amount requiring another push.
Maybe 10%.

 

Defenders get an hour to muster an answer to a hostility bomb. Attackers essentially have to push through a screening battle to the coast.

[Snoggy]

Brits complaining about PvE content? Dear lord stop the press!