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EdWatchmaker

New Player Retention: Noobs & Seal Clubbing vs Seasoned PVPers

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Hello Captains and Admin,

I'll start off saying that between my 2 characters I have about 2000 hours and about 2 years in the game. I had never played a multiplayer game before. I remember when I first got it, the STEEP learning curve. Absolutely NO idea what to do. The GREAT players that helped me and yes the DREADED seal clubbers. HAHAHAHA, I look back at those times and wonder why I stuck with it. I stuck with it because I love the sea and ships. No other game has given me the feeling of really being at sea and really sailing. The drop dead gorgeous graphics, turning off my other monitors and darkening my room. The audio, putting on my headphones and turning up the volume. The pure thrill of being hunted, I play as a merchant captain. Sighting another ship on the horizon. Friend or foe? ENEMY! and the chase is on. The TAG and now I begin to sweat. I'm not armed because it would slow me down. Sometimes I get away and sometimes I don't. Then the sights and sounds of battle, I can almost smell the gunpowder.

I was reading a bit on the forums this morning and came across "Game Reviews on Steam" by Bach. It made me think hard about the recurring problem of player retention. Noobs as well as seasoned PVPers wanting a bit of fun. I think I have an answer but have no idea how it would be made to work. 

We have 2 servers. One PVP and the other PVE. Now what if all new players spawn on the PVE server where we don't need green zones. There they do the tutorial, meet some of the players and get to know the game.

I'll admit that a lot of noobs bring the seal clubbing on themselves because they won't listen to their in game elders and end up being easy prey for people wanting a good fight. Then there are the jack asses who don't want to pick on someone their own size and they are the true rotten seal clubbers. But most captains just want to get out, find some PVP and have some fun. 

The PVP server should be ruthless and hard core for PVPers. The PVE server should be there to accommodate those that want that play style and also to train Noobs. But often times it is a drain on the Devs because of low numbers. I cannot see a realistic way to fully integrate everyone on one server. PVPers need to hunt and find some prey to fight. PVErs Need to be able to do their thing without getting hassled. Noobs need to be able to learn without getting clubbed into leaving the game, they don't really know what they want yet. Now what if you could jump between the two servers and use them both to their greatest potential and solve all three problems? It just might lead to greater player retention and better game reviews. 

I have the game map up on one of my other monitors and have been contemplating it. I see 3 places where portholes between servers could be placed. Middle of the Gulf of Mexico, middle of the Caribbean and north of the Bahamas between America and Kidd's Island. In each of these spots you place a new island with a light house and a green zone that extends to the edge of viability. No port, just a dock or two and you cannot have goods in your hold, only that which is necessary to fight your ship should you be attacked entering or leaving the green zone. Let us say that you are a dyed in the wool PVPer on the PVP server and want to go to the PVE server to help train and mentor some Noobs. You sail to one of these islands and drop sail. Up comes a screen that lets you switch servers painlessly. Upon popping out in the PVE server and leaving the green zone you can either sail where you wish or TP to any capital. To make this work well tagging other players needs to be added to the PVE server, the tagged player must accept or the battle instance closes and they go on their way and the green zones on the PVP server eliminated except around the capital proper. Of course it works the other way and a Noob or someone that normally plays PVE wants to go to the PVP server and stick their toe in the hot waters of battle can do so. It would encourage mingling and better usage of the two servers. Better training of the Noobs. Better yet, for the dedicated PVPer, three easy to find and get to HOT spots where they can go prowl for prey and hopefully find some good quick fights. All at little cost to anyone. Hopefully we all have much more to do to enjoy this game and retain players.

Noobs win. PVPers win. PVErs win. Devs win. Game wins. I win, yes I'm selfish.

Another SHAMELESS plug, Devs (DOG! Let go of my pant leg!) open the Pacific so I don't have to sail around the edge of the map. (DOG!!! I said let go!!) I'm going to courts marshal that drat dog one of these days.

Please discuss and poke all the holes in it you want. I want this game to succeed.

Fair sailing and the best day or night to all.  

                       

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could be an interresting thought, but the ability to easy farm all modules and upgrades for then to transfer it to the pvp server is an exploiting option. And i dont know if its even possible since its 2 completely different servers

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OH, you're right. I thought about cargo but not modules and upgrades. Have to think about that. We can't have anything going between servers or it would wreck the idea. Going between servers I imagined as an automatic log out of one and log into the other. 

That fly. Stroke of genius. I went and got the fly swatter and then realized it was just a picture.

Fair sailing

 

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What if the gulf of panama in the pacific (south of Portobelo) was the new player spawning area. Kind of like the rookie zone in the Bahamas we had. Each nation minus the "Hardcore" ones can have a Non capturable port with the safe zone that entails, to teach them as many of the aspects of the game as possible. Maybe a single free port in the center to show how they work as well. The area should follow the old rookie area rules to attempt to limit ganking in this area, and loot should also be basic/repairs. Ships should also be locked to shallow rates. Once the player feels they are ready to leave the new player area they should be able to click a button in port with a warning kind of like abandoning an outpost and be permanently moved to their nations capitol.

Edited by Aster
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Honestly and i know this is going to piss off the PVP guys, btu safe zones honestly should just be that safe zones.  If you want PvP than go to some one's port and flip it or farm it, not the capitals of nations.  There is another game that the whole map was a PvE zone and it did great for many years.  The only way to get PvP was to flip a port and create a red zone.  We would keep certain areas of the map, (the middle) red all the time by not putting it completely into port battles.  While I like the fact we can fight over almost all the map, I do honestly think the reinforcement zones should really be PvE only zones instead.  Cause right now the zones do more harm than good, they give false feel of safety to new players when vets just come in and farm them.

O63V1ey.png

 

Than again I kinda liked the concept the devs came up with the PvE zone being the GULF OF MEXICO and shutting down the PvE server.   Cause lets all be honest the map is way to big as it is (POTB map was kinda small in game as it was easy to get to one end or the other fast).  

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Zones don’t really seem to do the job whether The Rookie Shallows or Safe zones. They all suffer the same problem on the initial 5 to 10 days steep learning curve. The idea of all new players starting on PvE first I think goes along way to solve the starter problems. The Pop-Up spawn would lead to more ALT farming than you could believe and is none starter in my opinion.

 

My thoughts:-

 

Early Steps...

Like the tutorials a newbie will need to climb to a certain rank and craft point at which the game will open up allowing a PC creation on the [PvP Caribbean] server. This is just an option and can be executed any time after the levels are breached. This allows for different Nation allegiances and spawn areas plus time to develop all types of skills. Or just remain on PvE. The new player at the breach level should understand crafting, trading, combat missions and co-op play before starting PvP. This coding wise is far simpler an idea. Thus bedding down the tutorial.

He’s got used to talking in PvE [Global Chat] getting help and interacting with the community.

 

[PvP Caribbean]...

The new player Character [PC] starting on [PvP Caribbean] will start at the level breach only. So, craft level 5 and a commander level 4 for example with a BASIC Brig and 10,000 in cash at his Nations main PORT. Here the player has had time to get used to the game and its mechanics before starting to PvP.

He doesn’t start back at zero to climb the grind again a big NO-NO. All new PCs start with exactly the same amount. His old PC on PvE still works as normal and should be used to test thing if needed. A good example is boarding or de-masting techniques that take a long time to master etc.

He will get ganked at the start, but hopefully be able to learn more from this process or ways round it. This rather than rage quitting and we would retain him longer. His view on the NA-OW is wider so can handle the PvP world better than starting completely in the dark and become HOOKED just like you and I have...

 

Its easy for me to say this, but I did bring my clan over from PvE to PvP Global. It took a bit of time to settle in but we did it. The solo player will still struggle however at first. This is the number ONE complaint from players with under 100 hours in the game. Read the reviews...

https://steamcommunity.com/app/311310/discussions/0/1693795812290903226/

I tried to give some ideas to the guys on STEAM suffering from clubbing but I do like the PvE idea. If you can give them better advice go do it...

 

 

Thanks for reading,

 

 

Norfolk.

 

Edited by Norfolk nChance
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The olympic sized tossers who constantly attack the newer players and they know who they are will turn people off in droves. A PVE zone is needed so everyone can try it, and the devs will get a much better appreciation of how many players are doing what.

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It took 2 replies before the "buff safezones" guys came out of the woodwork 😆

I'd rather see the developers give the clans more tools to train their members, such as duel rooms. In addition, id like to see all new players be placed in a "training clan" (a chosen clan in each nation) that exists solely to train new players. I believe the devs are talking about doing something similar to this already. This way, all new players start the game in the best possible position to learn and master the game. 

Edited by Capn Rocko
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13 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

It took 2 replies before the "buff safezones" guys came out of the woodwork 😆

I'd rather see the developers give the clans more tools to train their members, such as duel rooms. In addition, id like to see all new players be placed in a "training clan" (a chosen clan in each nation) that exists solely to train new players. I believe the devs are talking about doing something similar to this already. This way, all new players start the game in the best possible position to learn and master the game. 

The best way to retain new players is to ensure they turn into old members.  Being ganked quite literally 20seconds outside KPR is not the way to do it.  With the most recent change to safe zones the player population has been down significantly.  I don't think this is a coincidence.  Newer and the more casual type of PVE players need areas where they can do their thing or they just piss off to other games, which is pretty much what keeps happening with Naval Action.  All these hardcore pvpers always come out of the woodwork to save their seal clubbing territory, but never do seem to find the time to fight each other.  Odd that.  

This clan changes won't bring players back to the game or sell more copies.  The changes they're talking back are pretty much basic quality of life stuff most MMOs already have.  Unfortunately our near sighted players can't see the forest for the trees and only want to improve their style of playing rather than the overall game.  

Instead of working on ways to move players out of the safe zones and into the OW for PVP opportunities we just keep nerfing the safe zones for short term gratification.  

 

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People leave becouse they are attacked in safezone, becouse enemy players do camp main port and wait for someone attacking AI.

Solution:

-only one side can be reinforced example: if you are in KPR safe zone only British can be reinforced.

-Open world content: Shipwrecks need to spawn randomly in OW so people will search for them while some will go out searching this players to sink them

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1 hour ago, Christendom said:

The best way to retain new players is to ensure they turn into old members.  Being ganked quite literally 20seconds outside KPR is not the way to do it.

 

Then teach them not to get ganked in reinforcement zone lol. This could be lesson #1 in training clan. I'm not saying it's the solution to everything but you cant say it's not a good idea. (Well I guess you can lol)

You claim it's the reason players have left the game. I agree that some have rage quit because of safe zones but many PvP veterans are also not playing the game currently. We have 2 inactive clans in Prussia that were PvPing daily and filling PBs just months ago. The fact is people quit for different reasons. I would argue that the.number 1 reason is boredom. Any negative experience in the game can cause a bored player to quit no matter how small. 

I just find this thread funny in general. The OP had a pretty good original suggestion and the US players turned it into their safe zone problem 😆

Edited by Capn Rocko
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26 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

Then teach them not to get ganked in reinforcement zone lol. This could be lesson #1 in training clan. I'm not saying it's the solution to everything but you cant say it's not a good idea. (Well I guess you can lol)

You claim it's the reason players have left the game. I agree that some have rage quit because of safe zones but many PvP veterans are also not playing the game currently. We have 2 inactive clans in Prussia that were PvPing daily and filling PBs just months ago. The fact is people quit for different reasons. I would argue that the.number 1 reason is boredom. Any negative experience in the game can cause a bored player to quit no matter how small. 

I just find this thread funny in general. The OP had a pretty good original suggestion and the US players turned it into their safe zone problem 😆

Who is going to run this training clan and train them?  I hardly got time to run my own clan and they don't have time to do things other than RvR, PvP and yes PvE/trade to make money, why would we take our time out to train a player that doesn't know zip from any thing?  That should be the games design to lead them into the game and teach them the basics and give them the safe place to learn the game and grow.  Just about every MMO I been on you couldn't even go into the PvP zones (GO INTO) until you hit a certain level.  The rest of the map was PvE only.   This game has it backwards where instead of having most the map PvE for folks to learn and level up it has most of it PvP (in fact all of it is pretty much).

This game should not be a job of me training new players in my nation and protecting them from vets.

I do agree a lot of players leave or take a break cause of boredom but that isn't the only reason. I know many of our guys are honestly tired of the toxic and being farmed by half the nations out there that refuse to fight each other.  Many of us are logging into TS and chatting while playing other games and waiting for the "BIG PATCH."  Well the next one or the UI one.   

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@Capn Rocko nothing to do with Yankees. It is a reinforcement zone problem.

You are a rookie, you see ai fleet and attack. How would you know enemy players can join? 

Even if they just tag you, you will not press the call reinforcement button, you are exicited, you do not know it even exist, and even you press that button, would make gankers laugh at you, you won't even know you can call help in nation chat, how to go to nation chat? 

It is a problem, nobody willing to solve @admin

Make some slide show, make a pop up, etc. 

 

Edited by AeRoTR
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Except Prussia doesn’t get new players or at the very least it doesn’t get new players on the scale most nations do, in particular the US and GB. You also don’t get players who are strictly PVE minded at proportionate amounts the other nations do.  Your simple comparison to Prussia does not apply here, it’s not apples to apples. 

Admin even said it himself at some point.  When you get rid of the safe zones and creature comforts people leave.  It’s common sense.

I don’t want safe zones.  I don’t need them.  I don’t mission or craft or farm books.  I want to roll out everyday and sink brits until I find the ever elusive Capt Hardy alone on the water.  One day maybe....But that’s my style of play and forcing others how I want to play is not good business.  I’m also intelligent enough to realize that if I had it my way and myself and others could club seals to our hearts delight we would eventually run out of seals.  I just wish others were smart enough to realize that too.

The focus of future development should be figuring out how to get folks out of the safe zones and into those nice juicy unrestricted waters.  Not trying to put more players, enemy or friendly, back into the zones.  

Edited by Christendom
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I would say the problem lies with the nature of the this game, it constantly stacks the advantage on a single elite player being able to wipe out an entire fleet of noobs, New players don't understand that they don't have a chance until its too late, and when a fleet of 6 or 7 of them gets wiped out by one guy who even if they do get close to sinking can suddenly repair his ship back to almost full health and kill another 6 or seven more its not surprising many throw in the towel. Any perk or ability that enables new players to have any fighting chance against more skilled players gets nerfed or removed in a very short time.

Edited by Fletch67
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10 hours ago, EdWatchmaker said:

(...) the tagged player must accept or the battle instance closes (...)

I smell some great potential in this idea which could get implemented in PvP server just as well.

Make it so, that new players of the lowest ranks always have the choice to accept or dismiss an attack by some veteran player, no matter if the latter joins an AI fight or seeks PvP conflict directly. This could prevent "seal clubbing" altogether and quitting of frustrated new players. If the newbie accepted, he cannot be angry at the game afterwards because it was his decision and he was no helpless victim. Could have said no. So I see here a way to keep new players in the game by avoiding ruthless situations for them, if not agreed upon.

Just to make this look good to the experienced players as well, add a ransom fee payable by the otherwise ganked newbie to his potential attacker if he says no - not too much though. So it will be like the newbie gave some money for being left alone. 10.000 gold maybe, should not bankrupt anyone.

This while he has no such choice if confronted by another player of the same rank. For example, if two newbies of lieutenant rank meet, they have to fight it out. And of course if a lower rank attacks a higher rank.

The protective function fades out after climbing on the career ladder.

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2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Who is going to run this training clan and train them? 

 

Every Saturday why not the Moderators run a BASIC revenge gank squad made up of brand new players or players wanting to play and learn PvP. Different Capital each week or neutral ports as well to create a mix nations group. BASIC ship entry no frills.

They then purposefully go out to find a fight. Use TS3 or whatever you want. The idea is to get them fighting sinking and having a laugh. This is how the agony guys in EvE used to do it (no longer around I think). A BASIC Pickle pack would run riot through Null-Sec taking large ships on or gang groups.

https://agony-unleashed.com/

https://forums.agony-unleashed.com/index.php?/forum/2-enrollment/

https://www.youtube.com/c/AgonyUnleashedPVP

 

It seriously works, getting the Beginner to PvP into a fight and learning win or lose. We also got very drunk along the way...

 

This thread was inspired by the Bad STEAM review thread earlier. The ONE thing that did come out from both newer and older players was the feeling of not being heard by the Dev’s. If the Moderators like...

@Hethwill

@Iroquois Confederacy

Or Dev’s Like @Ink or even the Genius himself  @adminran the squad for a couple of hours on a Saturday...

 

It would be an event that would draw in players both new and old. The Dev’s running the thing would build player moral and the sense of community. The Problem of Seal Clubbing from this view now looks like a positive...

 

 Norfolk.

 

 

 

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All I can say, and always said is:

- Don't rush the ranks

- Learn ALL ships, play ALL ships ( know your enemy, know yourself, etc )

- Fight AI against the odds, not just for farming

The idea of an Academy is nice, but my bet is on each nation to take care of its own. Community can root out the bad apples, the sore winners that like to pound their own chests saying how pro they are when they fail at the most basic level of gameplay in a multiplayer game - social behavior.

- Join the best, you'll be as good as they are. Join the bad, you'll be worst than them.

 

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7 minutes ago, Norfolk nChance said:

 

Every Saturday why not the Moderators......

 

No offence to @Hethwill as he's one the few mods I actually seen active over the years, but as for the others?   WHAT MODS?  Global went almost a year before we ever had any active mods and most of the either stop playing or went back to EU server.   Even now there is pretty much only one active mod I seen and he's the one mentioned above.   Each nation should have a couple of active moderators be honest to handle in nation chat and well of course any issues on global, but this shouldn't be there job to train new players.  They are there to moderate the game.  Now with that said some games have content RP staff that is all they do is create events and make content for the game.  This would be nice, but prob something best for after release. 

 Instead we need a way to retain the players and let them learn on there own not try to force them.  I mean when your starting to learn to swim you don't go jump into the shark tank when your still trying to learn with floaties in the kiddy pool.

1 minute ago, Hethwill said:

All I can say, and always said is:

- Don't rush the ranks

- Learn ALL ships, play ALL ships ( know your enemy, know yourself, etc )

- Fight AI against the odds, not just for farming

The idea of an Academy is nice, but my bet is on each nation to take care of its own. Community can root out the bad apples, the sore winners that like to pound their own chests saying how pro they are when they fail at the most basic level of gameplay in a multiplayer game - social behavior.

- Join the best, you'll be as good as they are. Join the bad, you'll be worst than them.

 

I wasn't a big fan of the tutorial rushing a player to MC rank until I found out how hard the exam was.  We shouldn't rush them or force them into play they aren't ready for and that is why folks think the game needs some zones (what we have now is not safe zones).  No one is asking for them to be bigger, just better mechanics and for me I would say around the capital and maybe one or port distance (not the whole reinforcement zone) only.  We need a way to keep them around long enough to bring them into our clans and train them up.

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32 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

 Instead we need a way to retain the players and let them learn on there own not try to force them.  I mean when your starting to learn to swim you don't go jump into the shark tank when your still trying to learn with floaties in the kiddy pool.

@Sir Texas Sir

I can see now how this would come across. My poorly worded script should have said after completing my PvE idea mentioned above (extending from the OP). The Mods are names for names sake (expect @Hethwill of course), a sales pitch if you like. Having Guest player leaders like @rediii or your good self...

Using this type of style like I said brings the Dev’s into the Players Community from a positive sense that’s outside the FORUMs...

If time have look through the Agony stuff, BASIC Wolf Pack Courses. The individual New Player doesn’t feel so isolated and alone. Dipping his toe in the Shark Tank becomes easier.

I absolutely agree, we shouldn’t force them into play when they are not ready. At the moment 20 seconds outside K/PR and they are... @Christendom.

 

 

Just idea my friend...

 

 

 

Edited by Norfolk nChance
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11 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Honestly and i know this is going to piss off the PVP guys, but safe zones honestly should just be that safe zones.  If you want PvP than go to some one's port and flip it or farm it, not the capitals of nations.  There is another game that the whole map was a PvE zone and it did great for many years.  The only way to get PvP was to flip a port and create a red zone.  We would keep certain areas of the map, (the middle) red all the time by not putting it completely into port battles.  While I like the fact we can fight over almost all the map, I do honestly think the reinforcement zones should really be PvE only zones instead.  Cause right now the zones do more harm than good, they give false feel of safety to new players when vets just come in and farm them.

Ok not saying you are wrong per say.

But your statement is correct within your time zone not mine i can log in go to the pvp zone - noting but AI, go out to La Tortue a high traffic zone nothing going on there either so i check high traffic trade zones even though i don't like hitting traders i go hopping to hit some of the hunters usually its pretty quite or hit my own clan, so i got to capitals looking for the tail end of the US or got to KPR and fight there coast guard which they have the right to do so not everyone going to capitals is hitting newbies, and also going to the capital gives the advantage to the nation you go to they can see your ship and make a counter easily and most of the time depending on the ship the "capital hunter" waits to be tagged  

 

6 hours ago, Christendom said:

Unfortunately our near sighted players can't see the forest for the trees and only want to improve their style of playing rather than the overall game.  Read above statement you have to remember some timezone's have more problems then others,

Instead of working on ways to move players out of the safe zones and into the OW for PVP opportunities we just keep nerfing the safe zones for short term gratification.  

 

6 hours ago, Christendom said:

The changes they're talking back are pretty much basic quality of life stuff most MMOs already have.  Unfortunately our near sighted players can't see the forest for the trees and only want to improve their style of playing rather than the overall game.  

 

also not wrong but making ships easier to craft would be nice until you look at the flip side the "hardcore" or well organised clans like WO and VCO Armed HRE etc who have been around along time and know how to play rock around in the best ships so its a hard one to get right.

 

12 hours ago, Aster said:

What if the gulf of panama in the pacific (south of Portobelo) was the new player spawning area. Kind of like the rookie zone in the Bahamas we had. Each nation minus the "Hardcore" ones can have a Non capturable port with the safe zone that entails, to teach them as many of the aspects of the game as possible. Maybe a single free port in the center to show how they work as well. The area should follow the old rookie area rules to attempt to limit ganking in this area, and loot should also be basic/repairs. Ships should also be locked to shallow rates. Once the player feels they are ready to leave the new player area they should be able to click a button in port with a warning kind of like abandoning an outpost and be permanently moved to their nations capitol.

would be a good start that's for sure, but having one port that can have a port battle regularly would also be nice maybe every few hours just so people get a taste of it  

 

47 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

All I can say, and always said is:

- Don't rush the ranks

- Learn ALL ships, play ALL ships ( know your enemy, know yourself, etc )

- Fight AI against the odds, not just for farming

The idea of an Academy is nice, but my bet is on each nation to take care of its own. Community can root out the bad apples, the sore winners that like to pound their own chests saying how pro they are when they fail at the most basic level of gameplay in a multiplayer game - social behavior.

- Join the best, you'll be as good as they are. Join the bad, you'll be worst than them

hopefully soon there will be away to communicate with fresh players a lot go unseen or unheard mostly cause there is no function for them to reach out to clans, i know there is nation chat but a lot of people are shy or withdrawn and would prefer a private approach 

Also consider the map is to large for its current population (not asking for it to be smaller either) so people can miss each other 

didn't offer much in an improvement but between all you lot what we need is already here asters idea is my personal favourite to be honest just cause no more safe zones and newbies get a chance to do there thing safely  

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Can  only hope more veterans to be honest ( with their win buttons and let the game evolve even if they have to relearn everything ) and respectful. Good social aspect of a game is half the player retention.

 

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1 hour ago, Rebrall said:

Ok not saying you are wrong per say.

But your statement is correct within your time zone not mine i can log in go to the pvp zone - noting but AI, go out to La Tortue a high traffic zone nothing going on there either so i check high traffic trade zones even though i don't like hitting traders i go hopping to hit some of the hunters usually its pretty quite or hit my own clan, so i got to capitals looking for the tail end of the US or got to KPR and fight there coast guard which they have the right to do so not everyone going to capitals is hitting newbies, and also going to the capital gives the advantage to the nation you go to they can see your ship and make a counter easily and most of the time depending on the ship the "capital hunter" waits to be tagged  

Yah I feel for ya'll SEA/AUS players since I worked nights I have a little of ya'lls time on compared to US players during the week.  Which is why I'm up at this hour.   We took a hit as we had a good number of AUS players that came back to check out the game and was excited but than nothing happend and they drifted back into hiding.  It's a very hard spot to have folks stay up or get things done cause of lack of numbers of players.  Or than you have the problem with global where we had ARMED and CN/CCCP where they pretty much had power in there time zones but no one to fight really.   It made for a boring game for both those clans.   There is no problem coming and hunting, solo or in a small group.  No one is saying that is bad, the problem is when you have 5-10 guys sit and camp a port and kill every one that comes out knowing they aren't good players even if they have rank.   I wished I got a screen of the battle WO did in front of CT tonight.  You weren't there but lets put it this way.  A guy tags AI in front of the Capital but still in green zone.   WO jumps in he calls for help.  Some guys come in and jump in to help.  They all get killed more guys come in and jump in and get killed. I think by the end it was something like 6-7 US players killed in front of the port in that one battle.  WO had 6-8 guys in there (one I believe came in late).  All season vet players sitting there feeding off folks that don't know about the fact that a safe zone is open battle for any to join.  He can't call AI c ause he was in a bttle with AI and not tagged.  People where able to join the attacking team even way after the battle started.  Like I said I know for sure one guy joined way late at the end.  You don't know how the battle odds are when you join until you get in. So thinking it was maybe 6 vs 6 folks joined only to find out that it's now 1 vs 6 cause the other 5 are dead.  That isn't fair for new players.  Not to mention this is less than 3M (still in green zone) from the capital and if he moved maybe just a bit more east he would of not been in the green safe zone and there is a big dead 5M zone in front (you have to go through it to get to the other green zones).   It was a pure gank fest not some solo or two guys just out hunting having a little fun.

also not wrong but making ships easier to craft would be nice until you look at the flip side the "hardcore" or well organised clans like WO and VCO Armed HRE etc who have been around along time and know how to play rock around in the best ships so its a hard one to get right.

 

would be a good start that's for sure, but having one port that can have a port battle regularly would also be nice maybe every few hours just so people get a taste of it  

I actually was a big fan of turning the Gulf of Mexico into a PvE zone but allow you to have the flag to still PvP in that zone if your flagged while in it.  We really don't need a dead server doing nothing and the game would do much better if we combined the PvP/E servers into one server to work on content for every one.  The map is plenty big enough to do that for every one even if we got back to the 1K pluss days.  We also have way to many nations.  I would suggest make one or two nations  PvE/P nations.  French and spain would be great for this as they have two safe zones and one of them is in the GULF.  Make the GULF ports PvE safe zone.   Than dump the three hard nations and give that mechanic to the pirates.  Make Pirates only able to become in game (like how the old ways was) and if you want to leave delete you char and or use papers.   Make them the extrem hard mode.  Turn Mort into a Neutral port for all (like PItt's use to be a long time ago) and you prob have a better map and game for all.   We really suffer from to many nations, to big a map and not enough zones/space for causal and new players to play safe and enjoy the game they want to play.  Leave the other half of the map for us PvP guys that also do unsafe trade and such.

hopefully soon there will be away to communicate with fresh players a lot go unseen or unheard mostly cause there is no function for them to reach out to clans, i know there is nation chat but a lot of people are shy or withdrawn and would prefer a private approach 

Also consider the map is to large for its current population (not asking for it to be smaller either) so people can miss each other 

didn't offer much in an improvement but between all you lot what we need is already here asters idea is my personal favourite to be honest just cause no more safe zones and newbies get a chance to do there thing safely  

I really wish to get some of the ASP guys on here to see how they think but many of the stopped playing and it would be nice to have some of there input as a new clan of mainly new players.  @Kjartan?   Any chance to get some input from your guys?

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We all make the same observation:

  • Few new players are staying in game.
  • Some veterans are leaving.

Veterans leaving is normal. At a moment in game, you may try and discover another game, and then come back or not in the first one. The leaving veterans should be replaced by new players.

For new players, the debate is open from years, with always the same conclusion: first, something is open to make the newbies life more easy, then hardcore PvP players complain that they need more easy kills (they don’t write it that way, they claim for nerfing safe zones, in surface or in protection feature, or how to “force” players to PvP, etc.) Newbies quit the game silently, we never hear them. They try Naval Action, don’t meet immediate success, and leave. Sometimes, they rage quit and a shout can be read in the nation chat. But most of them simply quit.

I know that I will be trolled because of the previous sentence, (“PvP players complain that they need more easy kills”), but let me insist on the second point:  New player try, don’t meet immediate success, and leave. Our civilization is linked to immediate things, we now have the habit of getting no delay in nothing (I want it and I want it now!)

So in fact, and whatever safe zones are, the real solution is not there, not in this permanent balance PVE/PvP.

Maybe, for keeping newbies in game, we need a specific content for newbies. New players should meet some immediate success. For example, some quests to be taken in the port tavern or admiralty (go to this port, deliver something there, build this ship, purchase that quantity of goods and bring it to your capital warehouse, etc.) quests type and difficulty increasing with the player rank. May-be, these quests should have to be completed to pass to the next rank, with something easier that the present final exam (in immediate success, the word “success” is really important too). And, by completing these quests, the new player meets immediate success and he is granted “something”, plus the next rank. And he would be really wishing to make the next quest, staying in game.

The first quest should be very easy (such as go to somewhere), the last but one to earn some PvP Marks, the last one to earn a “lord protector” nomination in RvR (by the way, the new player did enlist a clan).

Edited by Eleazar de Damas
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