National Reputation Persistence (Karma) - Entry to enemy battles.

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

I think it makes sense to link that fine to reset karma to rank.

Low rank = low cost, high rank = high cost.

 

Young captains (noobs) make more frequently wrong decisions.

But for an admiral such decisions have big political consequences.

That will also make veteran players, who usually are high rank, think twice before doing karma-affecting actions.

[Knuddel]

so if i start a battle against BRits it will not effect my Karma just if i jump into a battle?

 

[admin]

10 minutes ago, Cpt Eole said:

They should be able to fight on any side without taking a karma malus. On the other hand, they would never be able to benefit from the infrastructure of other nations' ports.

 

Yes.. Interesting


We initially wanted to just fix an exploit (where players join your side and interfere - worst horrible abuse of the false flag). But once we decided how to block it we were amazed.
Fallout new vegas style RPG systems that we did not like in 2016 and considered stupid for a lobby shooter. Suddenly suddenly started to make sense 

• Clan infrastructure can be used by positive reputation players from enemy nations
• Port entry will matter and will be blocked based on rep
• We can block player trade if you have low rep with that nation (Pirate Smuggling will come back!)
• This will make honor of the flag matter and players will finally stop treating (we stopped) the map as a lobby shooter. If you make a choice to sink a british - you will be an enemy of a british empire with all consequences (including NPC attack)

 

This is an MMO and open world is not a lobby 

[SnovaZdorowa]

Тут вылезет СТОЛЬКО неожиданных побочек, что устанешь разгребать. Мне даже думать страшно.

[admin]

8 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

I think it makes sense to link that fine to reset karma to rank.

Low rank = low cost, high rank = high cost.

 

Young captains (noobs) make more frequently wrong decisions.

But for an admiral such decisions have big political consequences.

That will also make veteran players, who usually are high rank, think twice before doing karma-affecting actions.

yes

 

[SeeIgel]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Hello Captains 

There is a mechanic in game where you are able to join enemy battles if they are open and support one side or another. 
It works like this

• You can support other nations in combat in open sea by joining one of the sides (any nation even if you just captured their ports)
• If your nation (for example Britain) have joined side A only British can join side A after that
• This has no consequences for the player and it opens up exploit ability that players use.
  • For example joining for the enemy side in one battle and then joining on your side in the next one and helping the enemy. 
  • This also creates confusion for new players and atomizes the unity in the nation. (When different clans are allied to different nations)

We are no longer satisfied with everlasting ability to false flag. 

Admiralty ruling:

From the next patch National flag Karma will be implemented (Reputation persistence). 

• You will no longer be able to join to support a nation if you have ever joined a battle against that nation.
  • For example. If you as Spanish captain side at least once joined the battle against Britain, you will never be able to join the battle on the British side.
  • This ruling does not affect direct honest flag vs flag attacks (Player from Spain attacks player from Britain or vice versa
• Your reputation levels will be indicated in the player info panel under your rank. 
• You will be able to clean your reputation if you made a mistake by paying a significant fine.

Please make precautionary changes in your allied relations and change nations if necessary. 

This mechanic might also spread on port entry rights (both into positive and negative ways).

 

Thank you for your efforts and all upcomming new ideas! Good to see a very active developed game.

I like the idea of karma, binding the players to the decition they make. this could improve the worth of the flag you carry.
The only problem I see is that if you can pay off the karma, the whole idea gets neglected for the vets, while it is very punishing for new players (who maybe don´t even understand that system right away).

My suggestion: To support the devs I´d even pay for a "Karma DLC" that is working like the forger DLC maybe. So you can reset the karma and your relation with other nations once in a week  or month p.e.
I think the idea has potential to decrease the random ganking all the time and could bring a silent/stealth alliance system if clans have to communicate whom they help if they want to pvp together.
Maybe the players who always try to make this game a historical version of WoWS with lobby fights and random sinking won´t like that. But for a beautiful simulation it is surely a benefit to bring a system into the conflicts like that

Edited June 11, 2020 by SeeIgel

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

19 minutes ago, Lt Sekiro said:

So if i'm correct , if i join a battle 4v1 spain vs gb, win battle

Leaving battle and 1v4 spain vs gb , i can't help spain player?

So what happen for player like me who play only for br in small nation and not for flag?

Maybe add a smugler flag systeme?

 

fine fine. but cleaning reputation by paying a fine is nonsense because as you stated: reputation depends on your actions and not your money!

[Malcolm3]

12 minutes ago, admin said:

This will make honor of the flag matter and players will finally stop treating (we stopped) the map as a lobby shooter. If you make a choice to sink a british - you will be an enemy of a british empire with all consequences (including NPC attack)

Good thing. Next step should be economic warfare and proper diplomacy

[Koltes]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Hello Captains 

There is a mechanic in game where you are able to join enemy battles if they are open and support one side or another. 
It works like this

• You can support other nations in combat in open sea by joining one of the sides (any nation even if you just captured their ports)
• If your nation (for example Britain) have joined side A only British can join side A after that
• This has no consequences for the player and it opens up exploit ability that players use.
  • For example joining for the enemy side in one battle and then joining on your side in the next one and helping the enemy. 
  • This also creates confusion for new players and atomizes the unity in the nation. (When different clans are allied to different nations)

We are no longer satisfied with everlasting ability to false flag. 

Admiralty ruling:

From the next patch National flag Karma will be implemented (Reputation persistence). 

• You will no longer be able to join to support a nation if you have ever joined a battle against that nation.
  • For example. If you as Spanish captain side at least once joined the battle against Britain, you will never be able to join the battle on the British side.
  • This ruling does not affect direct honest flag vs flag attacks (Player from Spain attacks player from Britain or vice versa
• Your reputation levels will be indicated in the player info panel under your rank. 
• You will be able to clean your reputation if you made a mistake by paying a significant fine.

Please make precautionary changes in your allied relations and change nations if necessary. 

This mechanic might also spread on port entry rights (both into positive and negative ways).

 

I would really wish if you would have spent your "very limited programmers time" on more important things that really matters for this game and players.
RVR
Economy
Crafting

Also this is pirate's life is to attack everyone. In a week time I will attack every nation on the server and then what? Cant join other players battles anymore?
Who would have stopped me to side with someone in the OW or attack someone in the OW? Karma or not. Am I not the owner of my actions anymore?

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Koltes

[z4ys]

2 minutes ago, Koltes said:

I would really wish if you would have spent your "very limited programmers time" on more important things that really matters for this game and players.
RVR
Economy
Crafting
 

this affects rvr and eco so its actual part of your demanded agenda. Even some may not like it or isnt part of the features they hoped for.

[Urchin]

Excellent!  Polish in the recent past I tried to help Dutch vs Russians and then vs Prussia. With this mechanic I could of earned the right to use VP ports instead of sailing to and from La Mona or Guaya.

Unfortunately with every mechanic, hopefully this wont be abused and ruined by alts but I expect it will in some way.

 

[Koltes]

2 minutes ago, z4ys said:

this affects rvr and eco so its actual part of your demanded agenda. Even some may not like it or isnt part of the features they hoped for.

wtf? can you enlighten me what is my agenda?
This will negatively affect OW hunting. This is a PVP game. With RVR mechanic so much lacking that its content driving people away from the game what else is there left? OW hunting.
But with 300-600 players online you dont have a choice of hunting one nation. I have outposts to visit GB, US, RE, FR, SP, SW, DN... Not always you can tag someone in the OW as they are already fighting. Now this is gonna limit me even further with PVP...

 

[Hethwill]

@admin

Reputation meter will change only with direct intent, correct ? Meaning only when joining 

Another question, and this is related to clan level.

Small clans are easier to manage, so everyone is in the same page but a clan of 250 becomes harder.

The new karma system means that there's a possibility of multiple sects in the same clan, some being enemies of a nation, others being friendly, according to karma values.

So the question is, would it make sense that a clan has unified karma, all for one and one for all ?

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Hethwill

[Malcolm3]

1 hour ago, Atimk said:

May I ask how will it work with Prolific Forger? Will it reset the Karma? 

Probably should be reset as you got new papers and new identity. But that's for Devs to decide

[Mercur]

I am playing this game mostly for open world pvp. I travel through the map and attack/join whoever I can to do pvp. On long term I see this regulation highly critical for my Play style.

Couldnt you do it as a (longer) PB Timer so immediate counter attacking / joining is not possible? I think this already prevents from the exploit you are mentioning

[mexicanbatman]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Hello Captains 

There is a mechanic in game where you are able to join enemy battles if they are open and support one side or another. 
It works like this

• You can support other nations in combat in open sea by joining one of the sides (any nation even if you just captured their ports)
• If your nation (for example Britain) have joined side A only British can join side A after that
• This has no consequences for the player and it opens up exploit ability that players use.
  • For example joining for the enemy side in one battle and then joining on your side in the next one and helping the enemy. 
  • This also creates confusion for new players and atomizes the unity in the nation. (When different clans are allied to different nations)

We are no longer satisfied with everlasting ability to false flag. 

Admiralty ruling:

From the next patch National flag Karma will be implemented (Reputation persistence). 

• You will no longer be able to join to support a nation if you have ever joined a battle against that nation.
  • For example. If you as Spanish captain side at least once joined the battle against Britain, you will never be able to join the battle on the British side.
  • This ruling does not affect direct honest flag vs flag attacks (Player from Spain attacks player from Britain or vice versa
• Your reputation levels will be indicated in the player info panel under your rank. 
• You will be able to clean your reputation if you made a mistake by paying a significant fine.

Please make precautionary changes in your allied relations and change nations if necessary. 

This mechanic might also spread on port entry rights (both into positive and negative ways).

 

sounds like a fun experience and only logical to get rewarded for helping your allies

[SeeIgel]

1 minute ago, Koltes said:

wtf? can you enlighten me what is my agenda?
This will negatively affect OW hunting. This is a PVP game. With RVR mechanic so much lacking that its content driving people away from the game what else is there left? OW hunting.
But with 300-600 players online you dont have a choice of hunting one nation. I have outposts to visit GB, US, RE, FR, SP, SW, DN... Not always you can tag someone in the OW as they are already fighting. Now this is gonna limit me even further with PVP...

 

Then maybe the nation with 60%+ of playerbase in it should split up. With 600 guys online I don‘t have any problem to find someone to tag

[Georg Fromm]

Dear @Devs

i think the idea is really good, but I am curious when the shitstorm of the Pvpler will lead to the withdrawal of the idea.

[Redman29]

8 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

@admin

Reputation meter will change only with direct intent, correct ? Meaning only when joining -and- attacking player.

Another question, and this is related to clan level.

Small clans are easier to manage, so everyone is in the same page but a clan of 250 becomes harder.

The new karma system means that there's a possibility of multiple sects in the same clan, some being enemies of a nation, others being friendly, according to karma values.

So the question is, would it make sense that a clan has unified karma, all for one and one for all ?

 

And kill trading. Some traders have to trade in enemy ports. If hostile AI is back on and is based on karma; can you imagine the complaints when traders get tagged out of the blue by an AI that are impossible to avoid on trade runs when that person has refrained from attacking that nation to keep his karma positive with that nation. 

A player should be to one that controls his karma, not the clan. 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Redman29

[admin]

Just now, Georg Fromm said:

Dear @Devs

i think the idea is really good, but I am curious when the shitstorm of the Pvpler will lead to the withdrawal of the idea.

I value full removal of the exploit more than the slight reduction in pvp - because the spoon of exploits spoils the whole soup anyway.
This karma system will also shake up the convoluted system of friend/foe clans some nations have created. Time to break up the empires by proven MMORPG ways.

[Hethwill]

I know Redman, hence why I ask.

I'm looking at the news release from different angles at the moment.

*sips more coffee, changes angle*

Edited June 11, 2020 by Hethwill

[Malcolm3]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

I value full removal of the exploit more than the slight reduction in pvp - because the spoon of exploits spoils the whole soup anyway.

How the system you are going to introduce can remove the exploit when someone joins your side and either does nothing besides opening battle for your enemies to join, or directly helps enemy in battle by chaining or blocking you?

Just want to get clear picture of new changes and also more complete information of it

Edited June 11, 2020 by Malcolm3

[Knuddel]

U basicly killed the Prussian ability to trade. Or defend against Swedish gankers. What about Ports which are free for all?

[z4ys]

Just now, Malcolm3 said:

How the system you are going to introduce can remove the exploit when someone joins your side and either does nothing besides opening battle for your enemies to join, or directly helps enemy in battle by chaining or blocking you?

he will be lonely when his mates behave differently

[Aquillas]

48 minutes ago, admin said:

Yes.. Interesting


We initially wanted to just fix an exploit (where players join your side and interfere - worst horrible abuse of the false flag). But once we decided how to block it we were amazed.
Fallout new vegas style RPG systems that we did not like in 2016 and considered stupid for a lobby shooter. Suddenly suddenly started to make sense 

• Clan infrastructure can be used by positive reputation players from enemy nations
• Port entry will matter and will be blocked based on rep
• We can block player trade if you have low rep with that nation (Pirate Smuggling will come back!)
• This will make honor of the flag matter and players will finally stop treating (we stopped) the map as a lobby shooter. If you make a choice to sink a british - you will be an enemy of a british empire with all consequences (including NPC attack)

 

This is an MMO and open world is not a lobby 

Is the player reputation impacted by fights in Patrol Zones? In PZ, most players enter in random fights, in the open side, just to make damages, whatever the flied flag is.