Explosions feedback

[Gregory Rainsborough]

1 hour ago, admin said:

yes crew nukes are too strong.. hulls were wooden and could protect people.

We will

• reduce the crew damage,
• increase sail damage
• keep mast and hull damage.
• We will also try to increase the brace effectiveness.

you have 1 day left to enjoy the nuking fireworks

we will also add crew penalties to fire ship related fittings to simulate low crews required to operate them. it will take longer though.

The sheer force of the pressure change in an explosion kills people. Maybe folks shouldn't sail so close...

[Never]

1 hour ago, admin said:

yes crew nukes are too strong.. hulls were wooden and could protect people.

We will

• reduce the crew damage,
• increase sail damage
• keep mast and hull damage.
• We will also try to increase the brace effectiveness.

you have 1 day left to enjoy the nuking fireworks

we will also add crew penalties to fire ship related fittings to simulate low crews required to operate them. it will take longer though.

That sounds great, thank you Admin

[Malcolm3]

2 hours ago, admin said:

yes crew nukes are too strong.. hulls were wooden and could protect people.

We will

• reduce the crew damage,
• increase sail damage
• keep mast and hull damage.
• We will also try to increase the brace effectiveness.

you have 1 day left to enjoy the nuking fireworks

we will also add crew penalties to fire ship related fittings to simulate low crews required to operate them. it will take longer though.

Do you have such book Peter Kirsch - Fireship. The Terror Weapon of the Age of Sail?

May be it can help, though it's about real fireships and their use.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Malcolm3

[TheDread]

The problem with a crew penalty is that we can see other ship's crew.  It will make it blatantly obvious who in the battle is a fireship.  Maybe that's part of the intention of that change...  but it seems that maybe nerfing  in two steps - 1st reducing thee effect and if they still see more use than they should in the meta, then nerf the crew numbers so they're easier to spot and  avoid.

I get what you're thinking and the historical inspiration of it, but historically you couldn't mouse over another ship to see it's crew number, either...  so it probably is worth considering the gameplay aspect as well.  The other gameplay effect it would have if it reduces crew - a fireship 1st rate would be operable by lower level players than a less flammable one?   

[Mad Dog Morgan]

Shouldn't these kind of changes have already been tested and bedded down before release? Core mechanics seem to go around circles. Has there ever been a detailed road map instead of making continuous ad hoc changes. 

[z4ys]

3 minutes ago, Mad Dan Morgan said:

Shouldn't these kind of changes have already been tested and bedded down before release? Core mechanics seem to go around circles. Has there ever been a detailed road map instead of making continuous ad hoc changes. 

you can test game code and mechanics. But its hard to predict human nature.

Combat improvement is part of the roadmap. Fireships are part of combat. Furthermore battlesails changes are announced. Maybe its all linked together.

[Mad Dog Morgan]

10 minutes ago, z4ys said:

you can test game code and mechanics. But its hard to predict human nature.

Combat improvement is part of the roadmap. Fireships are part of combat. Furthermore battlesails changes are announced. Maybe its all linked together.

Of course expect continuous improvements and fine tuning, but these kind of changes and others especially regarding RVR should of been checked off long time ago.

[Malcolm3]

1 hour ago, rediii said:

that nuke killed 3 entire crews and damaged a lot of others.

So I guess it 3300 atleast of the 3 ships. And I guess ~2000-3000 other crew

 

When it comes to history... I don't think that a shipexplosion killed that many ppl  

One of the possible solution is when your ship are near the exploded one, you lose not so many crew, but get Crew Shock (everyone is stunned), and it's time depends on the distance to the exploded ship (less distance - more time).

Just as in the Battle of Nile where when L'Orient expoded fighting ceased for 5 minutes.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Malcolm3

[erelkivtuadrater]

@admin think this is a great opportunity to develop an upgrade that people would prefer to use maybe over that super repair one. Before you make your decision to reduce the crew damage. The fireships directly counters slow and insanely heavy ships, and I believe over time if you do something about the BR or production cost of 1st/2nd rates that people would prefer to use 3rd rates in port battle instead of just losing expensive 42pd ships if people just run in with AI ships to fireship them  

2 hours ago, rediii said:

that nuke killed 3 entire crews and damaged a lot of others.

So I guess it 3300 atleast of the 3 ships. And I guess ~2000-3000 other crew

 

When it comes to history... I don't think that a shipexplosion killed that many ppl  

Btw not so sure its unrealistic how it is right now. Yes the crew "kill" is high, but then are we really killing the crew in Naval Action? arent we disabling them in more of the fashion, considering you can use rum to let the crew members through pain and continue fighting?.

 

Explosion of L'Orient "The explosion happened at 10.00 pm and killed the Admiral and most of the ship's company. Both sides were so shocked by the disaster, that for some minutes, firing ceased. Indeed the painting shows that the sails and masts flying in the air after the explosion caused considerable danger to the surrounding ships." Source: https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/12001.html

Edited December 4, 2019 by erelkivtuadrater

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

6 hours ago, Tac said:

Ignorance can be bliss can’t it? I refer to the full fleet of 1st rate fire ships Reverse brought to San Juan for shits and giggles, If you think it’s ok as it is now then I have no words.

i understand the fireship you refer to was really exciting and looked wonderful and it helped to win a pb, but step back for a minute and understand how it would affect the big picture, would any serious commander want a pb settled by fireships 8-9 times out of 10?

Now that you already asked which port-battles I´d love to see, here´s the answer: mixed fleets, not just L´Oceans and Santisimas. But also a lot of 3rd rates, some frigates and mortar-brigs.

[Tac]

2 hours ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said:

Now that you already asked which port-battles I´d love to see, here´s the answer: mixed fleets, not just L´Oceans and Santisimas. But also a lot of 3rd rates, some frigates and mortar-brigs.

Wouldn’t we all , not sure that has anything. to do with way OP fireships though.

[Thonys]

info:

in a lot of navy s fire ships were used as a solitair unit to attack with a single purpose to set fire to the enemy ships.

Notable fire ship attacks include:(also pictures and paintings on the explosion radius)

• Alexander the Great's Siege of Tyre in 332 BC. The Tyrians used the fire ship in attempt to destroy Alexander's mole.^[16]
• Syracuse in their battle with the Athenian fleet.
• Geiseric used fire ships in great effect during the Battle of Cap Bon (468).
• Huang Gai's attack on Cao Cao at the Battle of Red Cliffs, 208.
• Battle of San Juan de Ulúa in 1568. John Hawkins' flagship Jesus of Lübeck was attacked by a fire ship before being stormed by Spanish seamen
• Siege of Antwerp in 1585. Both fire ships and exploding vessels were employed together for the first time.
• Francis Drake's attack on the Spanish Armada moored at Gravelines in 1588. The fire ships did no damage, but the Spanish scattered in panic and were easy prey for English ships.^[2]
• Maarten Tromp's attack on the Spanish fleet moored off the Kent coast in the Battle of the Downs in 1639. The Spanish fleet was destroyed.
• The 1667 Dutch Raid on the Medway, with 12 available fireships (8 actually used).
• Michiel de Ruyter's attack on the anchored English fleet at the battle of Solebay in 1672 in which HMS Royal James was burned, killing Vice-Admiral Edward Montagu, 1st Earl of Sandwich, and wounding Royal James's captain, Richard Haddock.^[17]
• The destruction of 15 French ships of the line, including Soleil Royal, Admirable and Triomphant, in 1692, after the Battle of La Hougue.^[18]
• US attack on Tripoli during the First Barbary War in 1804 by USS Intrepid.
• The Russian attack on the Turkish fleet at the Battle of Chesma, 1770.
• Thomas Cochrane's attack on the French in the Battle of the Basque Roads, 1809.
• Multiple successful Greek attacks on large Turkish ships of the line during the Greek War of Independence, 1821–1832.
• Chinese attacks on British ships during the First Opium War, 1839–1842.

• 

  The ship above is the Kat, a Dutch fireship used in the Four Days' Battle. The Dutch even made wooden cannons (cheap) in order to make it look like an actual operational small frigate.

• Feedback

• at this moment ships are set on fire by cannon ball fire from other ships  and blown up by selecting the button   survival off.

• perhaps we can have a feature were we set fire on a ship by players themselves witch of course is unrecoverable.(introduced by a perk or upgrade [perk dedicated fireship {10 points } ] , similar like the mortar brig perk  )

• only frigate size feature ,   and not on sol`s.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Thonys

[Tac]

great eye candy , terrible gameplay, a reduction in crew loss and  increase  In sail damage is welcomed in Tacs poop deck.

[firebool]

My locean is one of those that remained unmanned, and I had 3 ships between mine and the one that exploded, I understand that the damage to the crew is completely excessive and it seems good to me to retouch because what happened to my tomorrow today can happen to anyone and it is not logical to lose the entire crew being so far away and parapeted after other ships, but I think that an important thing would be that you could not see the crew that other boats have because it really is an elusive advantage does not leave possibility to prepare a trap or any other strategy and conditions the combat a lot because it tells exactly one player when to board or when not to approach an enemy.

[CeltiberoClearco]

Fireship is more of a suicide bombing than an unmanned ship laden with explosives.
Being able to set/remove the crew at will to control the fire is going to lead to: 

11 hours ago, Captain Reverse said:

...

everyone will use it. And if you are with a lost wind, you can leave the battle)

And it doesn't matter the size of the explosion, as long as you can commit suicide by guiding the ship and exploding almost at will.

Yesterday in Les Cayes I counted eight ships destroyed by the direct effect of an explosion.

[Angus MacDuff]

I dislike the whole fireship concept as it's played in the game. I know it's late in the process to speak so negatively about this and I'm sure its here to stay.  Historically, fireships were unmanned attacks on anchored opponents.  Very rarely did a Captain purposely set his ship on fire and murder his entire crew (bad form and all that!).  L'Orient's explosion was an aberration, not a valid naval tactic.  Let's just make it all go away....cause as a tactic, it sucks.

[Sella]

What if after a few seconds after a fireship catches fire, it becomes completely uncontrolable? Will that balance it a bit? 

 

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, Sella said:

What if after a few seconds after a fireship catches fire, it becomes completely uncontrolable? Will that balance it a bit? 

 

Since you'd be abandoning ship....

[Never]

Another effect of a fireship could be that it has a high chance to set the ships caught in the explosion on fire. Ships close to the center of the explosion getting maybe multiple fires, instead of having all their crew hello kittyed. Unless that's already like that

[Mouth of Sauron]

7 hours ago, rediii said:

that nuke killed 3 entire crews and damaged a lot of others.

So I guess it 3300 atleast of the 3 ships. And I guess ~2000-3000 other crew

 

When it comes to history... I don't think that a shipexplosion killed that many ppl  

Orient, which is perhaps the most famous explosion and being a 1st rate...relative to the recent battle...   Had a couple hundred crew members survive.  Some ships nearby were damaged, but they didn't lose 500 crew each.  

 

As pertaining to battles.  Fires should perhaps turn into fireshock significantly less and should instead require an increase in crew to "put them out".  Seems kinda ridiclous that ships sail around on fire with both broadsides blasting away.

[Never]

2 minutes ago, Mouth of Sauron said:

Orient, which is perhaps the most famous explosion and being a 1st rate...relative to the recent battle...   Had a couple hundred crew members survive.  Some ships nearby were damaged, but they didn't lose 500 crew each.  

 

As pertaining to battles.  Fires should perhaps turn into fireshock significantly less and should instead require an increase in crew to "put them out".  Seems kinda ridiclous that ships sail around on fire with both broadsides blasting away.

I think maybe the opposite is true, fireshock should happen sooner and faster with a big fire. Just the meaning of a ship being in fireshock should be different. Instead of fireshock meaning instant BOOM, it should mean that a lot of the crew is forced to fight the fire (unless it's a fireship with a fireship upgrade). So we could have all the effects of fireshock except the instant explosion, ships could only explode if they don't have the crew numbers to put off the fire. 

[Gregory Rainsborough]

7 hours ago, rediii said:

that nuke killed 3 entire crews and damaged a lot of others.

So I guess it 3300 atleast of the 3 ships. And I guess ~2000-3000 other crew

 

When it comes to history... I don't think that a shipexplosion killed that many ppl  

Historically I don't think they'd have been so silly to tack downwind of the enemy fleet

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, Never said:

I think maybe the opposite is true, fireshock should happen sooner and faster with a big fire. Just the meaning of a ship being in fireshock should be different. Instead of fireshock meaning instant BOOM, it should mean that a lot of the crew is forced to fight the fire (unless it's a fireship with a fireship upgrade). So we could have all the effects of fireshock except the instant explosion, ships could only explode if they don't have the crew numbers to put off the fire. 

Depends on how close to reality the Devs want to go here.  Historically, once a fire reached a certain level, panic ensued and the crew abandoned. They all knew how quickly a fire became uncontrollable. This could be put into the equation.

[Gregory Rainsborough]

Just now, Angus MacDuff said:

Depends on how close to reality the Devs want to go here.  Historically, once a fire reached a certain level, panic ensued and the crew abandoned. They all knew how quickly a fire became uncontrollable. This could be put into the equation.

Maybe a gradual decrease in crew on the ship as the crew jump overboard or consumed by the flames.

[erelkivtuadrater]

26 minutes ago, Mouth of Sauron said:

Orient, which is perhaps the most famous explosion and being a 1st rate...relative to the recent battle...   Had a couple hundred crew members survive.  Some ships nearby were damaged, but they didn't lose 500 crew each.  

 

As pertaining to battles.  Fires should perhaps turn into fireshock significantly less and should instead require an increase in crew to "put them out".  Seems kinda ridiclous that ships sail around on fire with both broadsides blasting away.

thats referred as crew dead though. Remember they couldnt hand out rum to their dead corpses and bring them back to battle, but i do think this is a great opportunity to develop and upgrade that decreases the effect your crew has on explosions against them to mix up with the repair meta

Edited December 4, 2019 by erelkivtuadrater