Cumulative hotfixes for Seasonal Update: Treacherous waters

[Tommallionus]

I'm afraid that Loki rune could be another thing which lower population of servers. I already few times barely survived battle against NPC fleet cause of other players taking command on AI ships. 

I understand that it's a testing thing, or some idea to develop but when I play on PVP server (the only one I ever played), when I'm attacking NPC fleet I'm expecting AI enemy. Otherwise it's not PVE but PVP and that's not what I'm going for with my PVE fitted 1st rate.  Anybody with better turn rate will ass wreck me and capture/sink. Expecially if he have support of another 2-8 AI ships. Where is a fun in that for me? Our Loki captain is not even risking his own ship.. .

When I goes for PVE and being attacked by bunch of enemy players - that's ok - It's what I can always expect, and they risking they own ships as well. But NPC turning in real players is not fair. 

Thanks for creating and developing game! Please consider other use for Loki Runes - possibly as a some kind of ticket to easy acces PVP arena where loki rune owners are fighting against each other 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 ect in some similar BR...  that could be fun for somebody who want's join game just for fast PVP battle. 

[Quiet Assassin]

Devs- I'm leaving the game for a long break. I'll take another look months from now to see if the game is "fixed", but for now, after 2000 hours+ playing time, good-bye.

Suggestions to "fix" Naval Action...

Trading- Please restore resource trading on the PvP side. Returns now are not worth the effort. Almost all port stores are empty. Sad. How are we supposed to buy the best mods without money? Traders offer tempting targets for PvP action (at least, it used to, before you took away PvP points for the kill and when cargo used to be worth something). Did you know you can get an adrenaline rush from trying to run Madagascar jewels, etc. past enemy warships? Or, capturing an Indiaman full of Parisian furniture? You took away a fun aspect of the game.

Shipbuilding & Crafting- Get rid of ship-building port bonuses for "clans & friends-only". When clans get political & split up, or go to another nation, players lose the shipyard AND large investments. Not cool. You've taken away the fun from some players who like to craft & sell ships as main income, or just to give to noobs. Mods are enough. Mods that are available to all captains levels the playing field. And please give back points for crafting all items for sale in stores- another part of the game players enjoyed.

Science Fiction-Port bonus "super-ships", wind wormholes...what's next? Placing your consciousness into someone else's ship? Oh, wait...the Loki rune. This is not EVE. If you got back to the basics of tall ship era simulation, the game would be better. My proof? Online attendance stinks. It was better when I first started playing. Being chased down in a T. Lynx by a Wasa is stupid. 

Grinding time-Waaaaaaaaaaay too long. Grinding AI for weeks to open slots, cap decent mods, or build up reals/doubs for upgrades & materials, only to be sunk in 15 minutes?? This, more than any other feature in the game, generates the often-heard player comment "This game is broken." It leads to "rage-quit." It scares off noobs, never to return. Insurance money is a good start, but doesn't come close to replacing the copper plating, northern carps, and Cartagena caulking. Even a DLC replacement won't get the mods & up-graded cannon back. It's too much loss for the time & money investment required. Spend weeks upgrading, just to be sunk by a 40-knot gank squad that chased you down using a wind worm-hole? Waste of time.

This post is long enough. There are things I love about Naval Action. The graphics are amazing. The map world is inviting. I've got some good mates here. But, the game is not what it used to be, nor is it true to the original concept when I bought it. It's gotten silly and one-dimensional. This may shock some, but just fighting all day, every day, can get boring. Give players back the "full experience" of the game, and watch attendance grow. Thanks for some fun memories. So long!

 

 

 

[admin]

On 11/1/2019 at 12:46 AM, qw569 said:

Is this correct that all ports have enough points for White Oak and Teak Forest?

I don't see any reasons why nation A will try to capture ports from nation B?

@admin Could you tell what you see the meaning of conquest activity?

The reason is to reduce advantage and give more meaning to owning the ports (even for small groups). Conquest is not forced but desired. If nobody desires war - let it be. We are creators of the world, not creators of wars.

 

BR reduction will help smaller clans hold on to those ports. 
 

[qw569😳]

11 minutes ago, admin said:

The reason is to reduce advantage and give more meaning to owning the ports (even for small groups). Conquest is not forced but desired. If nobody desires war - let it be. We are creators of the world, not creators of wars.
 

Are you trying to repeat the experiment Universe 25?

[captain smile]

19 minutes ago, admin said:

BR reduction will help smaller clans hold on to those ports. 
 

FINNNAAAALLY !!!

[Sureshot]

48 minutes ago, admin said:

The reason is to reduce advantage and give more meaning to owning the ports (even for small groups). Conquest is not forced but desired. If nobody desires war - let it be. We are creators of the world, not creators of wars.

 

BR reduction will help smaller clans hold on to those ports. 
 

Excellent news, thank you. 😀

[Vibrio Cholerae]

17 hours ago, captain smile said:

FINNNAAAALLY !!!

What’s the point the only thing that will change  is the numbers of screeners since there will be less players in pb. This will harden the entry of Pb for small nation!

[Thonys]

19 hours ago, Quiet Assassin said:

Devs- I'm leaving the game for a long break. I'll take another look months from now to see if the game is "fixed", but for now, after 2000 hours+ playing time, good-bye.

Suggestions to "fix" Naval Action...

Trading- Please restore resource trading on the PvP side. Returns now are not worth the effort. Almost all port stores are empty. Sad. How are we supposed to buy the best mods without money? Traders offer tempting targets for PvP action (at least, it used to, before you took away PvP points for the kill and when cargo used to be worth something). Did you know you can get an adrenaline rush from trying to run Madagascar jewels, etc. past enemy warships? Or, capturing an Indiaman full of Parisian furniture? You took away a fun aspect of the game. absolutely True

Shipbuilding & Crafting- Get rid of ship-building port bonuses for "clans & friends-only". nope ....objection ....(extended clan list solved that problem)

When clans get political & split up, or go to another nation, players lose the shipyard AND large investments. Not cool. True (for clan owners it s a no brainer... but have a option...to give command to other players )

You've taken away the fun from some players who like to craft & sell ships as main income, or just to give to noobs.True

Mods are enough. Mods that are available to all captains levels the playing field True. we need more access to important upgrades... and special items

And please give back points for crafting all items for sale in stores- another part of the game players enjoyed.(debatable)it needs expansion 

Science Fiction-Port bonus "super-ships", wind wormholes...what's next? Placing your consciousness into someone else's ship? Oh, wait...the Loki rune. This is not EVE. If you got back to the basics of tall ship era simulation, the game would be better. My proof? ( objection there is nothing wrong with EVE ,...Eve and NA have a great similarity  on mechanic subjects )

Online attendance stinks. It was better when I first started playing. Being chased down in a T. Lynx by a Wasa is stupid. true that stinks.(both)

Grinding time-Waaaaaaaaaaay too long. Grinding AI for weeks to open slots, cap decent mods, or build up reals/doubs for upgrades & materials, only to be sunk in 15 minutes?? This, more than any other feature in the game, generates the often-heard player comment "This game is broken." It leads to "rage-quit." It scares off noobs, never to return. Insurance money is a good start, but doesn't come close to replacing the copper plating, northern carps, and Cartagena caulking. Even a DLC replacement won't get the mods & up-graded cannon back. It's too much loss for the time & money investment required. Spend weeks upgrading, just to be sunk by a 40-knot gank squad that chased you down using a wind worm-hole? Waste of time.True (especially the grind in some areas ... you/I and a lot more players ... at some point you/i ...... can not field a big ship versus  full well grinded attackers. (the bias has allready done his work and is one of the reasons people not.... walk.... but  run... away) [The MAJOR issue with NA ] {{remember not all people are stupid..}}

This post is long enough. objection..:) 

There are things I love about Naval Action. The graphics are amazing. Not entirely true (trees and other stuff)

The map world is inviting. I've got some good mates here. But, the game is not what it used to be, nor is it true to the original concept when I bought it. It's gotten silly and one-dimensional. This may shock some, but just fighting all day, every day, can get boring. (true and debatable on fatigue)

  Give players back the "full experience" of the game, (do you mean NO restrictions?)  and watch attendance grow. Thanks for some fun memories. So long! (hope to see you  back someday)

 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Thonys

[blademage]

On 11/1/2019 at 9:34 PM, Thonys said:

we will see who is wrong or right in the future.

 

there is no right or wrong. There are two servers. One for open play and one for PvE. PvE is for the ones who don't want to fight other players, to cooperate. There I think the rune doesn't belong in a manner, where the other combatant has no choice. It is ok and for sure a lot of fun, if both agree by using the rune.

[erelkivtuadrater]

2 hours ago, Vibrio Cholerae said:

What’s the point the only thing that will change  is the numbers of screeners since there will be less players in pb. This will harden the entry of Pb for small nation!

well atleast it will be a port battle you would never had tried to do in the first place because you can actually fill the BR, also defensive port battles are possible for smaller nations to defend vs the guys with more numbers

[Thonys]

9 minutes ago, blademage said:

there is no right or wrong. There are two servers. One for open play and one for PvE. PvE is for the ones who don't want to fight other players, to cooperate. There I think the rune doesn't belong in a manner, where the other combatant has no choice. It is ok and for sure a lot of fun, if both agree by using the rune.

yes but the rune is the GATE to further implementation of goody goody's...(just saying..it does not need a debate.) 

[captain smile]

2 hours ago, Vibrio Cholerae said:

What’s the point the only thing that will change  is the numbers of screeners since there will be less players in pb. This will harden the entry of Pb for small nation!

at least some small nations will be able to participate, ever if they get screened.

[Angus MacDuff]

21 hours ago, Quiet Assassin said:

Trading- Please restore resource trading on the PvP side. Returns now are not worth the effort. Almost all port stores are empty. Sad. How are we supposed to buy the best mods without money? Traders offer tempting targets for PvP action (at least, it used to, before you took away PvP points for the kill and when cargo used to be worth something). Did you know you can get an adrenaline rush from trying to run Madagascar jewels, etc. past enemy warships? Or, capturing an Indiaman full of Parisian furniture? You took away a fun aspect of the game.

This is a big one @admin, and you must have read from other contributors how much this is wanted.  Many say how much they miss bringing an expensive cargo home through a high risk area.  Even if you simply reverted the trading back to 1 year ago, you would make everyone happy and bring back many players.  We want to see Indiamen full of Parisian Furniture again!  Cargo and passenger Missions should be the poor second choice for making money.

[erelkivtuadrater]

57 minutes ago, Thonys said:

yes but the rune is the GATE to further implementation of goody goody's...(just saying..it does not need a debate.) 

but they were wrong on this matter, they literally forced pvp onto players that didnt want anything to do with it. What they could have done instead is to add some kind of "Enable PVP" button and get more xp in pvp battles or activating the Patrol Zones (already in the files, only needs to activate) to test it. If people want to pvp they can sail inside it or if they dont want to they could sail around it and since it moves location each day i think it wouldnt been such a problem for the few that used that route that day to just redirect around

[Serk]

I would have prefered some form of alliance, so small nation can band their forces together into full PB fleets.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Serk

[Never]

22 hours ago, Quiet Assassin said:

Trading- Please restore resource trading on the PvP side. Returns now are not worth the effort. Almost all port stores are empty. Sad. How are we supposed to buy the best mods without money? Traders offer tempting targets for PvP action (at least, it used to, before you took away PvP points for the kill and when cargo used to be worth something). Did you know you can get an adrenaline rush from trying to run Madagascar jewels, etc. past enemy warships? Or, capturing an Indiaman full of Parisian furniture? You took away a fun aspect of the game.

 

56 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

This is a big one @admin, and you must have read from other contributors how much this is wanted.  Many say how much they miss bringing an expensive cargo home through a high risk area.  Even if you simply reverted the trading back to 1 year ago, you would make everyone happy and bring back many players.  We want to see Indiamen full of Parisian Furniture again!  Cargo and passenger Missions should be the poor second choice for making money.

This is pretty huge and a big reason some players give up on Naval Action right now, it's too hard to make money and also too boring. Trading with actual trade goods was something a lot of people enjoyed and it added a lot to the game. Some say that trading is still viable but the reality is people just aren't doing it, it doesn't matter how much someone could argue trade is fine or if they are making money doing it so it's not a problem. The fact is the vast majority of the server isn't doing it, and it used to the main money making activity of many players. 

I would suggest a system for players gain trading experience whenever they sell trade goods or buy them. Raise through the Trader ranks and you can get bonuses to sell your goods for bigger profits and buy them for cheaper prices. And even get bonuses to your cargo capacity in any trading ship. 

But right now I'd settle for maybe increasing the profit for selling trade goods by 50 to 100%. Increasing the amount of trade goods that drop in a port by probably 100% and the stock a port keeps of any trade good it drops by 10 times. Some 'big ports' don't even keep enough to fill 1 Indiaman. 

 

[AeRoTR]

For Real Trading Revival

Change nothing but incease both buy and sell prices, increase the margin between buy and sell.

So you can still have good profit from real trading, but very risky if you lose the ship as cargo in hold is expansive.

Of course there are greater options like creating known trade routes for small periods of time. Example, KPR had draught, will buy food items, live stock/grain etc. with much higher prices. Great chance for hughe profit but hunters also aware of this.

[Archaos]

50 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

I liked when I had to use paper and calculator for figuring it out which was a lucrative trading route.

You still have to do that, but you soon realize that there is not much profit to be made compared to the time and risk.

[Teutonic]

6 hours ago, Archaos said:

You still have to do that, but you soon realize that there is not much profit to be made compared to the time and risk.

as for one example. I was looking at a trade route between 2 ports (now with the inclusion of trade wind if it would be worth more than cargo delivery missions). An Indiaman with guns and repairs (and no perk) can hold 38 trade good medium guns with 68 carros in stern, and a setup of 20/20/100 (could have more repairs too). The costs are estimated from memory:

the trade good is 3,400 reals, add tax when purchase and it is 3,740 reals cost. (Total cost = 142,120)

The port I was wanting to sell at was buying the good at 7,900, after tax is taken, i would get 7,110 reals for each good sold. (Total revenue = 270,180)

7,110 - 3,740 = 3,370 reals profit per good.

on each Indiaman I bring = 128,060 reals profit/ship

the distance is roughly half the map - before trade winds, the average time was 2.5-3 hours sailing

with trade winds I am confident that I could shave off 1 hour of sailing at the very least so it becomes a 1.5-2 hour trip.

 

Question is, is this better than cargo delivery missions?

the Delivery mission I was basing this off was 800 doubloons, 65,000 reals and the Distance to get to the port was about a 40-60 minute sail. doubloons are largely being sold/bought at 100 reals each, so the "real" reward of this cargo mission is 145,000 reals.and it only takes up the space of 8 trade goods. For those of your with a good sense of money per hour generation, I think you see the issue. If you don't here is a rough estimate of the reals/hour profit

Trade good = 51,224 reals profit per hour (based on 38 goods in an indiaman)

Trade good W/ trade wind support = 64,030 reals profit per hour

cargo delivery mission = 65,000 reals + 800 doubloons profit per hour (1 "long-range" cargo mission UP to an hour of sailing)

if the cargo mission had no Dubloons, it would STILL be better. if you use Trade winds with Cargo missions, they are MILES better.

 

I have NO issue with how Cargo delivery missions work, I think they work great, but I have continued to try and make the point that Trade goods are 'trash' (and they still are). If you actively manage your cargo missions and almost exclusively do cargo missions with the doubloon reward, there is never a reason to sail trade goods.

The only time I would ever consider Trade goods is if I am going to literally AFK sail from point A to Point B for 2.5+ hours and not really "play the game." Which in this case it's just better to do cargo delivery missions. Stock them up over the course of 2-3 days  from 3-5 ports and then plan a route with all of them in your hold and you'll STILL always make more money then with trade goods. 

To top this off even more, the trade good that cost's 3,400 reals is a high-end trade good. Basically what I'm getting at is any trade good that costs you less than 3,000 reals is utter shite and you should never buy them unless they are used for specific goals (like Tools).

 

conclusion:

cargo Missions Still win, if the player wants:

1. to not have to play for more than 1-2 hours

2. to make the most money for the limited time they play.

3. to never risk any reals if they think they will be attacked.

 

Solution:

Trade goods need a BUFF plain and simple.

I would buff them by increasing the buy price in ports that consume trade goods by 50%. This is the minimum I would buff them to even be close to the profit from a cargo mission. If it was up to me, I would increase the buy price on all consuming ports by 100%.

the example above would then look like this with a 50% boost

trade good buy price: 11,850 --- after tax = 10,665 reals.

10,665 - 3,740 = 6,925 profit/trade good

indiaman profit with 38 goods = 263,150

 

with a 105,260 real profit per hour.

 

NOTE: These are close, but not exact and so should be all considered estimates. 

Even with these estimates, cargo missions are always better - keep on trucking them traders.

 

EDIT: some spelling errors, some additions, and some points i actually forgot ( @z4ys mentioning the lack of any risk to cargo missions. the only thing you lose is the ship and time as opposed to ship, time, and money when it comes to trade goods).

Edited November 4, 2019 by Teutonic

[z4ys]

6 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

 ...

Do not forget that cargo mission give no minus when captured or sunk. They always win.

[AeRoTR]

Good see Rover is on board

[Never]

@Teutonic Thanks for illustrating that so clearly. Maybe it sends a clear and resounding message now on why so many people are complaining about trading being pointless and hopefully some patch can address it. It's such an easy fix too, just some basic numbers to tweak could make so many players much happier with the game and would revive a currently dead aspect of the game. 

[van Veen]

On 11/2/2019 at 11:18 PM, Obi-Heed Kenobi said:

When I used to have Microsoft Flight Simulator, there was a downloadable program that would pull data from aviation weather stations across the world, and then plug that into the simulator. It included winds and precipitation. So, if it was windy and raining at Miami, you would land in wind and rain. If there were headwinds in the real world, you'd have a headwind in the simulator.

Now something like that would be pretty cool in this game. Could be some drawbacks (storms can last for days without moving much), but still, I think that would be neat. 

 

Be careful what you wish for. You might not want realistic weather in this game. 

Predominant wind direction is from E-NE over the whole year across vast areas of the caribbean. In the Gulf it's E-SE and along the U.S. coast there is more variance in wind direction. But the bottom line is this: you cannot sail from Panama to Willemstad on direct course. 

[Obi-Heed Kenobi]

2 hours ago, van Veen said:

Be careful what you wish for. You might not want realistic weather in this game. 

Predominant wind direction is from E-NE over the whole year across vast areas of the caribbean. In the Gulf it's E-SE and along the U.S. coast there is more variance in wind direction. But the bottom line is this: you cannot sail from Panama to Willemstad on direct course. 

Yep. That's the disadvantage. Just depends on how realistic you want the game to be - that might be pushing it too far.

[Angus MacDuff]

The game would not be playable with realistic winds.  I think what we have now gives us the maximum playability without getting into the nightmare of trying to beat east into a trade wind.