Small group/clan content: Port Raids + Poll

[admin]

Captains 
Lets discuss raids (which we plan to work on for next patch or first patch after release)

There are two options which we wanted to discuss with you, but first what is a raid.

Raid is an attack on a port which does not take control of the town but just robs the port owner for certain resource. Raid can happen during the defense timer. 

We need to hear your opinions on the best implementation

• A - Raid like port battle - happening tomorrow
  • Mechanics
    • You take a raid mission on the enemy port - the same way port battles are set up (but instead of 10v10 it will be 5v5)
    • After you killed the designated targets - the Raid will be set up for the next day
    • Next day battle will be set up for 5v5 port battle 
    • You have to capture circles and if enemy players do not arrive you will have no opposition
    • After you win the battle you get rewards in form of 10% of all enemy investments (number for illustration purposes only)
    • Benefits
      • Clear intent declaration and battle the next day
      • Defenders do not have to scramble and can arrive in time
      • Benefits skilled players as 5v5 greatly increases skill ceiling for the battle, less chance to succeed for average small groups/clans
• B - Raid like placing a flag - happening today
  • Mechanics
    • Part 1
      • You take a mission (flag) in certain county capital
      • You place the flag near the raided port (placement takes some time) generating a mission (or just take a mission which generates battle entry point
      • Message that flag is being placed or mission was taken is sent to server
    • Part 2
      • You fight with the elite NPCs in the battle
      • You take their special loot - raid documents and bring them to the designated county capital
    • Part 3 Spoils
      • Once you deliver the special loot you receive the following rewards
        • 10% of all port investments in that port (numbers for illustration purposes only)
      • Enemy loses 15% of the port investments in that port
    • Loot is capturable and people who take it from you can
      • deliver the loot themselves
      • or destroy it (cancelling the raided status)
      • Loot will be on the timer like deadman chest to avoid sitting out things in port or in battles
  • Benefits
    • You want to play now, your friends want to play now - you can't wait until tomorrow
    • Defenders could be distracted elsewhere giving a small clan a real option to take something valuable
    • Raid also can provide content to other players (trying to steal your loot)
    • Benefits the smaller attacker as defenders have to scramble from other things to try to find you in mission or intercept you after it

After both cases

Overall the second option is better for the attacker, the first option is better for the defender.

 

Please discuss and ask questions and make suggestions on improvements

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

Not sure if i understand B well: Is it only pve ? Or Elite NPC spawn only if no player enter to fill the defender's side slots ? Is it also 5 vs 5 ? 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Baptiste Gallouédec
removed the auto smiley replacing B

[Hethwill]

16 minutes ago, admin said:

Part 2

• You fight with the elite NPCs in the battle

 

... or 5 players if they join before battle starts ?

[PG Monkey]

I like the idea of raids but I don't like the  proposed implementations. Option B would be good if it wasn't pve

[admin]

3 minutes ago, PG Monkey said:

I like the idea of raids but I don't like the  proposed implementations. Option B would be good if it wasn't pve

its pvp when you are bringing back the loot. Enemies will decide themselves if they want to intercept you or not to create pvp 

[Havelock]

6 minutes ago, admin said:

its pvp when you are bringing back the loot. Enemies will decide themselves if they want to intercept you or not to create pvp 

Why create such a PvE barrier into a mechanic that is directed at the "easy accessible small group pvp" crowd? We already have a barrier for the "impactful map warfare pvp" group called hostility missions and i hate it...

[RKY]

dont let people choose which port, only which nation.

As for mechanics behind, let's first see what is preferred, real time or next day.

mechanics suggested are good, but i am sure nice suggestion will pop which could improve the current ideas.

Also note, multiple circles for a 5v5 is not a good idea.

Objective 1: reach a circle and accumulate 15 minute inside

=> once completed

objective 2: reach another circle before end of battle (upon reaching it, ship can leave)

this is just an example.

Edited May 7, 2019 by RKY

[Ligatorswe]

I am for number one. Like Port Battles today. Why? because it creates more opportunities for PVP.-

But however it is done I would take the opportunity to create missions that are for 2nd, 3rd and 4th rate ships. Not 1st rate again. Make it so that in order to get a raid mission in XXXX-harbour you have to field a number of 3rd rate ships that meets, lets say, 6 3 rate NPCs per mission. You have to go in with ships of the same BR.

I am a bit sick and tired that 1st rates are used for everything important in RVR in the game. We need to create content for 2nd, 3rd and 4th rates too. Raids gives you a GOLDEN opportunity to create content for other ships than 1st rates.

So however you do it, with flags or missions, PLS do NOT turn this into another one of these "we use 1st rates only" things in the game. It is enoough that PBs and hostilitymissions demand 1strates almost exclusively.

Otherwise i think the idea is excellent. It allows you to attack ports that are not capitals and gives an incentative to defend even thses ports. And it gives minor clans some more freedom to act on their own-

Edited May 7, 2019 by Ligatorswe

[Ligatorswe]

However...

However you do it, pls implement the same mechanics for the PVE peace server. I think they would appreciate it too.

[shunt]

I  see too many exploiits already .... larger nations can effectively kill off smaller nations    this works for either  option  set a port battle against an important port ,,, and then smaller raids against other ports

defenders have to defend port battle ... large nation either competes in port battle or sends in smaller force to kite and keep drfenders in battle ... meanwhile raidis are completed

 

[Manbot]

how would the loot from the raid work? is it 10% (just an example) of all CM, VM and dubs invested in that port?

and does that port actually lose those resources or is it just paid out as a % and the port investments themselves are not touched? 

[Guest]

Option A people will only get screened out by defending nation. 

Option B is best for smaller groups and is more spontanous and realistic. 

[shunt]

@admin   when you say defender loses either 10% or 15% of investment ... what does  "investment" mean ... is it port infrastructure  such as farms , mines shipbuilding ?? 

[shunt]

2 minutes ago, Wyy said:

Option A people will only get screened out by defending nation. 

Option B is best for smaller groups and is more spontanous and realistic. 

option b will be exploited by larger nations

 

[Jim Beamreach]

Yes, for Raids.

But i think it is Time to rework the Pirats, make them a Hardcore Faction with some restrictions.

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

I dont think stealing investements is a good idea.

Just imagine you are in a PB and all your enemies begin to pull off flags on your ports. You will end too pissed off knowing you cant do anything.

I can see woods from special ports or goods from the port like Cooper or other goods.

i kinda wish agro was done for ports where you have to raid regions.  Each raid adds agro to the capital.

 

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

So :

 

A = PB like now but pb is decided by the skill of the 5 attackers that managed to pass the screen.

B = full revange gank with all the nations waiting for the surviving attackers to get out of the raid..

 

 

If A] was flag, then same day 5vs5 pb, with empty defenders filled by elite npc after battle close, i think that would work flawless and generate many pvp.  If they manage to enter and win they deserve the loot, even if killed post raid.  You could even reduce the loot...

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, shunt said:

option b will be exploited by larger nations

 

what do you mean? pulling same flag for the same clan to bankrupt a clan? I understand its exploitable, but its the same on option a, where you can flip several ports instead of several battles on one port.

If i would suggest a change on how it could work in battle;

1. You start the raid with flag, sail to the port and place it, a battle instance is generated not unlike PB joining circle but the defenders cant join at the docks.

2. Message is shown on screen of the nation that owns port e.g. ("Misteriosa is being raided!")

3. What happens inside the Battle instance is that there is a "Raiding circle" generated around the actual port Harbor (Attacker generate points up to x for a certain time and after that while its simulated as the raiding fleet has successfully beaten off the defending land forces.

4. This would also make clans think about where to place their defensive coast batteries thinking about raids that might occur later, if a player take damage the points progress is slowed down so people would prefer to fight off defending coast batteries before progressing onto the town. To avoid missuse of mortar brigs i would rework the hp model on the forts since hitting a fort on one side doesent make it useless on the other side.

5. The harbor is the wreck so players can sail close to it and loot Simulates crew that has transported contraband goods from all building to the port for them to load aboard the ships.

6. After the loot raiders sail away, with invis timer as after a combat and the clan owner can choose to repair destroyed buildings or leave them as is.

Dont know what you other guys think about it.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Guest

[FKL 1982]

1 hour ago, admin said:

 

• • • Defenders could be distracted elsewhere giving a small clan a real option to take something valuable
    •  

Wrong! Big clans will use this just as much as small clans, if not more than. 

Big clans can also just grab five of them for example, 5 groups of five and you've wiped out 75% of the owning clan's investment in a day

(Investment that could have taken weeks or months to build)

Defenders could be distracted - In a environment where people already love to multi-flip using different nations, the last thing we need is this. Please stop providing players with more ways to avoid fighting in a combat game.

One thing you consistently fail to take into account when you make big changes like this, is the human element. People in general are d*cks and will exploit anything they can.

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by H982 FKL

[Carlos_Condell]

i think for the good of any of this 2 mechanics, F11 must to get rid of the game... is annoying and raiding must to be hid somehow unless you get cought, otherwise is a waste of programing hours.

like the idea by the way

[Miaowi]

I went for raids are great and option b (raids like mission)

Small clan content/options are always great. Difficult to design something for small clans that cant be abused by bigger ones though

It has to be mission based. Too big a timer and bigger clans will be ready in overwhelming force to defend the raid.

There has to be some timer to still allow a chance of defend, unless you intend for this to always be vs elite npcs.

The rewards have to be scaled v carefully. if its mission/flag based a big clan could easily split into groups of 5 and pretty much empty a port with consecutive raids.

Consideration to be given to type of reward. I wouldn't make it random i.e you roll and end up with 1000  stone blocks from fort 1.

CRAZY IDEA: could the reward be permits/notes instead? One that conforms to the building bonuses of the raided port?

i.e: I raid a 45 point port. my permit/note has sailing bonus 4, hull 4, gunnery 4 etc... 

In this way the raiders get a ship that is usually out of reach for them. it doesn't hurt the economy of the raid victim. (this also stops big clans from emptying ports using multiple raids) You'd still turn up to defend as you don't want others to copy/have your ships

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Miaowi
idea for rewards

[Gregory Rainsborough]

"Raids like port battles - preparation today, raid tomorrow at a set up time - favors larger clans and defenders."

On the contrary, I think the exact opposite is the case, the other option favours large clans that have many people on immediately and able to counter quickly. The raids like port battles favours smaller clans because it gives them time to prepare.

The second option is awful in my opinion. Taking away investment is a terrible idea. PvE. No quality PvP.

Port battle raids at least give small clans experience in small equal BR engagements, perfect for training them for larger ones.

Raids are a fine idea, the implementation as others have stated in the latter is bad.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Gregory Rainsborough

[Hullabaloo]

Gregory has a point, I think the poll result will be influenced by stating which option was advantageous to who, when that might not necessarily be the case.

There are pros and cons for both though I think.

Option A: gives the opportunity for small PBs which is great for smaller clans and I think quality PvP is always preferable to PvE missions.

Option B: Could be fun in theory but there is a danger that large nations can mobilise clans with 60 Port Bonused 1st rates, 5 go in to deal with AI while others wait and they all sail home with the loot, almost impossible to oppose on such short notice. Theoretically they could do multiple raids down an entire coast. Basically just taking everyone's stuff unopposed in a massive show of strength.

So B would only work if it was smaller ships and/or the loot was relatively minor (so as to not be worth mobilising an entire nation) and there was a limit on the number of raids in any given time. B would also be better if players could replace AI if they were available on a very short timer? I also think that a raided Port should have a long cool down before it can be raided again. It could be a fun mechanic which provides extra content and a chance for smaller clans to take part in RvR, but if the Port depletion is too harsh or defenders are being constantly targeted it will soon become a pain. Raids should be a fun mechanic for small clans to get involved in some RvR. But NOT yet another mechanic that hands large nations a further advantage over smaller ones.

[Hethwill]

Just a couple ideas.

Announce the flag when it is created and make duration of flag short. 30 minutes.

Creation of flag requisites:

- craft-able only at Regional Capital OR unconquerable ports ( non impossible nations )

- whatever resources you thinking of

- Flag is automatic created with the Resources + creation of Raid group of 5 players ( mandatory ); flag will be destroyed if group falls lower than 5 ( consider reconnection timer for technical failures )

- Successful raid = raiders occupy the port temporarily ( only for the Raid Group ) and can enter the port ONCE after the raid. After they exit they cannot enter again.

 

[GIBZ]

5 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Just a couple ideas.

Announce the flag when it is created and make duration of flag short. 30 minutes.

Creation of flag requisites:

- craft-able only at Regional Capital OR unconquerable ports ( non impossible nations )

- whatever resources you thinking of

- Flag is automatic created with the Resources + creation of Raid group of 5 players ( mandatory ); flag will be destroyed if group falls lower than 5 ( consider reconnection timer for technical failures )

- Successful raid = raiders occupy the port and can enter the port ONCE after the raid. After they exit they cannot enter again.

 

And about 10-15% of the resource loss or investment loss, can you be more specific?