On the issue of imported ship permits versus ready imported ships.

[Teutonic]

3 minutes ago, Borch said:

 

I think that your current game model would do good with our removed long ago feature - multi dura ships. People would be more courageous to sail crafted rare vessels and the impact of loosing them to DLC ship wouldnt be that big. Give crafted ships multi dura back, leave DLC ships with 1 dura only when blue but if redeemed purple or gold give them 2 or 3 durabilities. This way DLC's will still be interesting but people wont be that reckless when sailing their gold DLC ships.

Bringing multible durabilities back to ships and making dlc ships be 1 dura would be a great start to giving actual crafted ships and game economy a reason to be interacted with again.

[Angus MacDuff]

1 hour ago, admin said:

But let's get this straight. 

• Crafting was introduced last, and is a least cooked feature, as all focus was always on combat model, rvr and ROE (lately PVE). 
• Hauling was somewhat forced onto players because some time ago we wanted everyone to be the target. 

I get what you're saying, but it is now a fact that crafting and trading is a very big part of many player's game.  You're seeing a lot of bitterness because whether or not it was important back then, it matters now.  You could actually stop a lot of the complaints if you brought crafting and trading back to what it was a year ago.  Lets face it....ships were in OW then. 

[p i t]

Can we get this implemented in crafting already? To hell with rng!

[Socialism]

Sure sounds like no one wants to get rid of crafting.  In fact they are asking to make it more viable.  Hmmm

[LeBoiteux]

22 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

It's like all some people care about is a battle and because of that you basically trash the rest of the game.

Pvp is the heart of an MMO - but pvp for the sake of just pvp is  an arena game like NAL or WOT or Warthunder.

Lets be serious, it's time for the admin to decide whether Naval Action is supposed to be an Arena game or an MMO.

@HachiRoku is exactly right - this hybrid nonsense is giving us the worst of both genres.

Ship DLCs break the time wall for gamers with a limited amount of time, 1 ship per day per DLC. Hurray !!!

I know some have always liked this time wall from the start.

Edited April 10, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

it will respawn the next day, unlike my ships which cost in game money in time.

Your labor hours magically grow on trees - which is stupid - you should hire workers for money. Your trees magically appear from thin air too once a day, unlike Archeage where you have to cut them yourself. All you need is click a button. Deepest crafting ever. Does not need both time and money as people are swimming in money. All is given to you on the plate.
 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Guest

[Diceman]

47 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Imported ships should not have the option to choose woods, just add a "neutral wood" that doesnt excels at anything.

No to this!

I believe you’re putting far too great importance to wood selection... that’s just one factor in making a ship.

Many other factors still have to be obtained in game for ships to be good or great, DLC or crafted... 

Removing choice from the players in this game is always a negative!!

[Slim McSauce]

On 4/10/2019 at 9:57 AM, Parratoppa said:

Your labor hours magically grow on trees - which is stupid - you should hire workers for money. Your trees magically appear from thin air too once a day, unlike Archeage where you have to cut them yourself. All you need is click a button. Deepest crafting ever. Does not need both time and money as people are swimming in money. All is given to you on the plate.
 

Yet somehow DLC's top this by being the most magical one click, and you have a ship of any wood type instantly.
"All is given to you on the plate" This is true for DLC but not for crafting, but it will be soon because DLC has set the bar so low.
Also, if crafting was so easy as you make it then the argument that people who work and don't have time to get ships is disingenuous, a lie.
Edited out the P2W nonsense.  -Staff.

[shunt]

I havent read all the posts in this thread so excuse me if i  copy  someone eslse point

While I understand the original post and the explanations given  there are areas that give me concern

while the dlc ship does give players the opportunity to play the game in a decent ship, it is starting to make the game unplayable for those who dont want or cant justify to family the cost of the dlc

for instance last night GB had a fleet of russian Rattvisans parked outside KPR .. I would have liked to engage them in battle ,,, however not having the dlc myself I have to balance the chances  losing one of my ships against that of been able to replace it ... the answer was i cannot afford to take the chance .. the player in the dlc  lets say teak/wo ship doesnt care if he is sunk because he will get another tomorrow .this also changes his play style .. he can take risks he wouldnt take in a crafted ship . whereas i will probably be  unable to replace my ship because teak and white oak are imposible to get if your in GB at the moment .. so i am more carefull in my play style

add on top of that been able to get a permit for said ship ... yes i can use another lesser  build but then im just cannon fodder where is the fun in that

yes the new port crafting will cut out hauling but it still restricts building ships to finding rare woods and perrmits

its a downward spiral , i cant find rare woods so i build inferior ships to the dlc .. i get sunks ..i dont  get combat medals so i cant get permits .. so i  jave to build inferior ships and get sunk again ... i cant compete in a port battle because i have an inferior ship so I cant attack ports that have rare woods .. there is no positive way out of this downward spiral

 

last point at releae xp is been taken away which is fine  it has to be fair for everyone ... but it isnt fair because of the dlc ships ... A clan with a number of dlc ship owners will take every valuable port in game with the new ships because those without the dlc will be unale to compete ... doing yj etutorial and a bit of pve will soon give you enough rank t crew your  teak /wo or live/ white oak rattvisan ... if you dont have the dlc there is no way you can craft a ship to compete with this in the first week or two after release

 

seems to me that the release of especially the rattvisan dlc before the release of the game has not been thought through , as unless i buy the dlct here is no way i can compete on full release of the game .

 

 

[Barbarosa]

26 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

Ship DLCs break the time wall for gamers with a limited amount of time, 1 ship per day per DLC. Hurray !!!

I know some have always liked this time wall from the start.

When I don't have time to participate in time consuming RvR frequently I didn't asked for removal of time wall. I just joined whenever I had time. Asking for adjustment to suit me never crossed my mind.

If you don't have that much time, you can craft/haul one day and fight another day. Besides crafting and hauling was always very easy. People complaining about crafting never sound genuine to me. Either they are playing a wrong game (this is not MOBA yet) or enjoy ruining others experience, just because they are not competent enough. Correct me if you know a single  "time wall  removal" advocate who is competent and skilled (ROVER's don't count).  

[Diceman]

1 hour ago, Wyy said:

true, they are for quick fighting right? so whats the point giving a dlc ship live oak | white oak option or teak | white oak, they are there for a quick fight and sink am i right @admin

Wrong.

Using your logic, maybe DLC ships should only have one broadside allowed in a fight. Or only two sails that move. Or 33% of a full crew compliment... etc...

Seems to me you want the DLC ships nerfed to the point that they’re no greater competition than the AI ships... Yeah, that’ll help PvP... What are you afraid of???

No one will buy or sail a ship they have zero chance to win while fighting.

 

[Capitalism]

9 minutes ago, Koveras said:

I don't disagree, but there has to be an incentive for ppl to go into the OW for other reasons than RvR.. Econ needs money sinks, stuff that is readily available but exorbitantly expensive - like mods, special guns (edinorog guns etc) and crafting unfortunately will take a backseat due to the 'rare' woods, permitwalls and the availability of competitive DLC ships.

I think that's the huge irony of all of the changes recently and the ones talked about here. Essentially the active and passive money sinks of crafting and taxes have no way to keep up with inflation now that most of the motivation for trading and crafting has been removed.  People are amassing huge amounts of reals from delivery and passenger missions with essentially nothing to spend it on, all while satisfying their ship/combat needs with DLC ships that are free.

With all of these changes in the economy so "close" to release I doubt there's any way to properly balance the economy, and inflation will eat away at the entire game ecosystem.  This is the nature of non-player-based MMO economies and seems to be a huge failing of the Naval Action mechanics and testing. All of the economic bones of such games have to be in place throughout a long enough period of testing in order to understand the complex interactions in place... and sadly, after three years we're no closer to that than we were on Day 1 of Early Access.

[Diceman]

1 hour ago, Wyy said:

true, they are for quick fighting right? so whats the point giving a dlc ship live oak | white oak option or teak | white oak, they are there for a quick fight and sink am i right @admin

Wrong.

Using your logic, maybe DLC ships should only have one broadside allowed in a fight. Or only two sails that move. Or 33% of a full crew compliment... etc...

Seems to me you want the DLC ships nerfed to the point that they’re no greater competition than the AI ships... Yeah, that’ll help PvP... What are you afraid of???

No one will buy or sail a ship they have zero chance to win in while fighting.

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Diceman
Duplicate post... sorry

[mikawa]

Well I think, admin has chosen the path. Now it's up to us to test it. Please reduce amount of CM needed too.

[HachiRoku]

I like the sound of capturing developed ports more than anything. Looking forward to the changes. 

[Captiva]

56 minutes ago, Borch said:

I think that your current game model would do good with our removed long ago feature - multi dura ships. People would be more courageous to sail crafted rare vessels and the impact of loosing them to DLC ship wouldnt be that big. Give crafted ships multi dura back, leave DLC ships with 1 dura only when blue but if redeemed purple or gold give them 2 or 3 durabilities. This way DLC's will still be interesting but people wont be that reckless when sailing their gold DLC ships.

 

I agree. I made this suggestion when DLC ships were first introduced. My argument was that the DLC ship is, in reality, a limitless, endless dura ship. It should be counter-balanced with the reintroduction of the crafted, multi dura ship. This gives an advantage to the crafted multi dura ship because the ship is not subject to the 24 hour wait period to redeem that the DLC ship is subject to.

All large ships of the line would stay 1 dura since there is no DLC for them.

[Diceman]

When are we going to see USS President as DLC???

Lets say a Connie with a modest speed and turning buff... with a different paint scheme ( black with yellow ochre gunstripe).... tweak the armor to bring it back into 4th rate range...

I’d buy that...

[mikawa]

1 minute ago, Diceman said:

USS President

President was a very nice ship. What about USS Chesapeake and HMS Shannon? I'd love to have them ingame....

[Meraun]

1 hour ago, LeBoiteux said:

So what ?

There can be several ship DLCs for the same 'Rate', such as the Pandora (9-pder) et L'Hermione (12-pder), both 5th rates.

Le Requin is a 9-pder. There could be a lighter 6th rate DLC carrying 6-pders, such as L'Aurore. 

So we have even less Eco?

[Meraun]

1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

Imported ships should not have the option to choose woods, just add a "neutral wood" that doesnt excels at anything.

its too late for that you cant just change taht after they are sold

[HachiRoku]

1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

It's like all some people care about is a battle and because of that you basically trash the rest of the game.

Pvp is the heart of an MMO - but pvp for the sake of just pvp is  an arena game like NAL or WOT or Warthunder.

Lets be serious, it's time for the admin to decide whether Naval Action is supposed to be an Arena game or an MMO.

@HachiRoku is exactly right - this hybrid nonsense is giving us the worst of both genres.

I think the proposal sounds OK. Let's wait and see what happens. I really have no idea how exactly this will all work. Permits rare woods etc vs imported ships. Its a tiny bit unexpected that trading/hauling ship mats will be reduced but it might be a good thing. The amount of time wasted on building ships is insane so I personally won't fight for that to stay. 1 step at a time I say. Tell you what. If the patch fixes the advantage you will be 1 of the 3 people I gift a rat

[Teutonic]

Simply put - more ship DLCs with they way the current ones work will continue to ruin the last bits of crafting and economy people have.

At some point you have to ask yourself why you're playing an MMO when you decide to just spend real cash to side-step every foundation an MMO needs to have to be successful.

Take out the economy and crafting from NA and it is then just an arena game. We've crapped on the MMO part of NA so much now that honestly we should just resign to being an arena game. Seems the only thing we can do correctly and all agree on is battle instances are the best part of NA.

[Ligatorswe]

I believe that the economy is not hampered by dlcs but by the amount of old ships players still have. And by the new mechanics for wood, were some wood are scarce and the price of rare ships.

What will happen after release, if the current system still exists, is probably that more people will sail dlc AND oak ships.

I believe that the lack of rare woods will lead to interesting developments. Like convoys to protect traders and such.

I feel that in order to keep the scarcity of rare woods you need to lower the cost of rare ships. 15 combat marks to get a trinc is not good.

If you make precious wood really RARE you create a strategic resource that people will fight to get control of. But rare woods and ultrarare ships is not a good combination.

Let people sail Trinc if they want. Lower the price to 5 combatmarks. Let modules and wood be the scarce resource people fight about, not ships.

I think people will accept that they have to sail more common ships of oak easier if tgey can pick whatever ship they like.

Yes the major clans will get WO/LO ships quite easy. But then the others should attack their trade. And force the clans to do convoys. Which in turn are attacked. And so on.

The oakships should still be better in some sense than dlcs.

Keep the wood-system. Lower the price of ships. Keep doing dlcs. That is my advise.

[Ligatorswe]

Ps

 

And dlc should be all kind of wood.

[Sella]

Alleviate the differences between the meta woods like teak and white oak compared to the "poor man's woods". Make DLC ships craftable. Two probelms solved.