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On the issue of imported ship permits versus ready imported ships.

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Well I think, admin has chosen the path. Now it's up to us to test it. Please reduce amount of CM needed too.

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I like the sound of capturing developed ports more than anything. Looking forward to the changes. 

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56 minutes ago, Borch said:

I think that your current game model would do good with our removed long ago feature - multi dura ships. People would be more courageous to sail crafted rare vessels and the impact of loosing them to DLC ship wouldnt be that big. Give crafted ships multi dura back, leave DLC ships with 1 dura only when blue but if redeemed purple or gold give them 2 or 3 durabilities. This way DLC's will still be interesting but people wont be that reckless when sailing their gold DLC ships.

 

I agree. I made this suggestion when DLC ships were first introduced. My argument was that the DLC ship is, in reality, a limitless, endless dura ship. It should be counter-balanced with the reintroduction of the crafted, multi dura ship. This gives an advantage to the crafted multi dura ship because the ship is not subject to the 24 hour wait period to redeem that the DLC ship is subject to.

All large ships of the line would stay 1 dura since there is no DLC for them.

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When are we going to see USS President as DLC???

Lets say a Connie with a modest speed and turning buff... with a different paint scheme ( black with yellow ochre gunstripe).... tweak the armor to bring it back into 4th rate range...

I’d buy that...

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1 minute ago, Diceman said:

USS President

President was a very nice ship. What about USS Chesapeake and HMS Shannon? I'd love to have them ingame....

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1 hour ago, LeBoiteux said:

So what ?

There can be several ship DLCs for the same 'Rate', such as the Pandora (9-pder) et L'Hermione (12-pder), both 5th rates.

Le Requin is a 9-pder. There could be a lighter 6th rate DLC carrying 6-pders, such as L'Aurore

So we have even less Eco?

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1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

Imported ships should not have the option to choose woods, just add a "neutral wood" that doesnt excels at anything.

its too late for that you cant just change taht after they are sold

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15 minutes ago, Capitalism said:

I think that's the huge irony of all of the changes recently and the ones talked about here. Essentially the active and passive money sinks of crafting and taxes have no way to keep up with inflation now that most of the motivation for trading and crafting has been removed.  People are amassing huge amounts of reals from delivery and passenger missions with essentially nothing to spend it on, all while satisfying their ship/combat needs with DLC ships that are free.

With all of these changes in the economy so "close" to release I doubt there's any way to properly balance the economy, and inflation will eat away at the entire game ecosystem.  This is the nature of non-player-based MMO economies and seems to be a huge failing of the Naval Action mechanics and testing. All of the economic bones of such games have to be in place throughout a long enough period of testing in order to understand the complex interactions in place... and sadly, after three years we're no closer to that than we were on Day 1 of Early Access. There has been multiple suggestions to a playerdriven economy, even a few of mine in the past. I doubt we'll see any meaningfull economy in NA, so the question begs, what is the point of the OW?

Agreed.

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1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

It's like all some people care about is a battle and because of that you basically trash the rest of the game.

Pvp is the heart of an MMO - but pvp for the sake of just pvp is  an arena game like NAL or WOT or Warthunder.

Lets be serious, it's time for the admin to decide whether Naval Action is supposed to be an Arena game or an MMO.

@HachiRoku is exactly right - this hybrid nonsense is giving us the worst of both genres.

I think the proposal sounds OK. Let's wait and see what happens. I really have no idea how exactly this will all work. Permits rare woods etc vs imported ships. Its a tiny bit unexpected that trading/hauling ship mats will be reduced but it might be a good thing. The amount of time wasted on building ships is insane so I personally won't fight for that to stay. 1 step at a time I say. Tell you what. If the patch fixes the advantage you will be 1 of the 3 people I gift a rat :)

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Simply put - more ship DLCs with they way the current ones work will continue to ruin the last bits of crafting and economy people have.

At some point you have to ask yourself why you're playing an MMO when you decide to just spend real cash to side-step every foundation an MMO needs to have to be successful.

Take out the economy and crafting from NA and it is then just an arena game. We've crapped on the MMO part of NA so much now that honestly we should just resign to being an arena game. Seems the only thing we can do correctly and all agree on is battle instances are the best part of NA.

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I believe that the economy is not hampered by dlcs but by the amount of old ships players still have. And by the new mechanics for wood, were some wood are scarce and the price of rare ships.

What will happen after release, if the current system still exists, is probably that more people will sail dlc AND oak ships.

I believe that the lack of rare woods will lead to interesting developments. Like convoys to protect traders and such.

I feel that in order to keep the scarcity of rare woods you need to lower the cost of rare ships. 15 combat marks to get a trinc is not good.

If you make precious wood really RARE you create a strategic resource that people will fight to get control of. But rare woods and ultrarare ships is not a good combination.

Let people sail Trinc if they want. Lower the price to 5 combatmarks. Let modules and wood be the scarce resource people fight about, not ships.

I think people will accept that they have to sail more common ships of oak easier if tgey can pick whatever ship they like.

Yes the major clans will get WO/LO ships quite easy. But then the others should attack their trade. And force the clans to do convoys. Which in turn are attacked. And so on.

The oakships should still be better in some sense than dlcs.

Keep the wood-system. Lower the price of ships. Keep doing dlcs. That is my advise.

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Alleviate the differences between the meta woods like teak and white oak compared to the "poor man's woods". Make DLC ships craftable. Two probelms solved.

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3 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

I think the proposal sounds OK. Let's wait and see what happens. I really have no idea how exactly this will all work. Permits rare woods etc vs imported ships. Its a tiny bit unexpected that trading/hauling ship mats will be reduced but it might be a good thing. The amount of time wasted on building ships is insane so I personally won't fight for that to stay. 1 step at a time I say. Tell you what. If the patch fixes the advantage you will be 1 of the 3 people I gift a rat :)

I  don't know man - take the hauling out to craft ships in one port and people still wouldn't want to fight without their preceieved wood advantage/disadvantage.

I am willing to try it out - but currently I'd rather we reduce outselves back to the original 4 woods and make them all accessible.

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3 minutes ago, Meraun said:

So we have even less Eco?

I disagree.

There will always be a market in this game for the PB meta ships, fast traders, chase ships and whatever the flavor of the month hunting ship is...

Judging from the forums, DLC ships will never be or remain if by chance they ever were OP ships... the QQ cries for nerf are just to great... 

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Just now, Teutonic said:

I  don't know man - take the hauling out to craft ships in one port and people still wouldn't want to fight without their preceieved wood advantage/disadvantage.

I am willing to try it out - but currently I'd rather we reduce outselves back to the original 4 woods and make them all accessible.

Permits and woods are something worth discussing but I will wait and see about that. The devs responding to this issue is a good sign and I don't want to overreact to something I have no idea about. 

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23 minutes ago, Diceman said:

When are we going to see USS President as DLC???

Lets say a Connie with a modest speed and turning buff... with a different paint scheme ( black with yellow ochre gunstripe).... tweak the armor to bring it back into 4th rate range...

I’d buy that...

So this game is being taking over by a bunch of rich spoiled brats?? Can’t be bothered to craft.  Wow GG, this game is literally replacing vets with dlc happy kids. Bye bye rvr, Econ hello streamline arena

Edited by pit
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40 minutes ago, Barbarosa said:

When I don't have time to participate in time consuming RvR frequently I didn't asked for removal of time wall. I just joined whenever I had time. Asking for adjustment to suit me never crossed my mind.

If you don't have that much time, you can craft/haul one day and fight another day. Besides crafting and hauling was always very easy. People complaining about crafting never sound genuine to me. Either they are playing a wrong game (this is not MOBA yet) or enjoy ruining others experience, just because they are not competent enough. Correct me if you know a single  "time wall  removal" advocate who is competent and skilled (ROVER's don't count).  

The gameplay of a casual gamer is not that of a hardcore gamer who happens to occasionally have little time to play. Different play style, needs and mind sets :

  • A hardcore gamer will rationally plan to 'craft/haul one day and fight another day' (as you wrote) using the mechanics of the game at their best to rationalize his time.
  • A player who occasionally plays does not know as well the game, the latest patches, the good spots, the good trading routes, etc. He will waste time in port, taking a quick mission, earning less money per hour, etc. During his one-hour play, he wants to easily do everything a bit (fight, customize his ship paint, choose his flag, take a quick trade mission...). Ship DLCs are vital for him for a quick and easy access to the game. 

But I know I speak to a (time) wall.

22 minutes ago, Meraun said:

So we have even less Eco?

because Eco mainly relies on the players sailing on 6-pders (Mercury...) ?

Edited by LeBoiteux

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2 hours ago, admin said:
  • Crafting was introduced last, and is a least cooked feature, as all focus was always on combat model, rvr and ROE (lately PVE). 
  • Hauling was somewhat forced onto players because some time ago we wanted everyone to be the target

 

2 hours ago, admin said:

Hauling goods for crafting is boring, not exciting, is risky but gives you no real rewards (you make a ship that you will soon lose anyway). 

I think the main problems with crafting are RNG permits and rare woods. If you would remove crafting completely it would be better, I guess. Or make all 4-7th rates 24h redeem like DLCs and crafting only for 1-3 rates.

2 hours ago, admin said:

Now. 
Here is the rug change that will tie the room together. 

  • Port investments will remove hauling requirements for basic resources for all players who play with friends or have friendly clans in the nation.
  • Clans (and you can have a small clan and capture a distant port to use it) will invest into
    • production of all basic resources in their port
    • defenses to protect it
    • shipbuilding to improve ships built in this region.
  • By doing so - player will get ALL basic resources in one location, completely removing hauling requirements out of the picture. Saving time and getting ships by just spending LH and cooperating together to get rare woods if needed. 

Clan can decide if they want these investments to be available to them only, to friends or to everyone who can build in this port.
QOGCpwG.png 

 

As a result.

  • Clans who developed the port will be able to get ships with one click.
  • Enemy clans who do not want to spend time developing ports can try to capture the port from the enemies (why build if you can cap). 
  • There will be a lot less time wasted on hauling and more fighting. 

This sounds great but will only help if you can upgrade the ports to grow good woods like teak or whiteoak...Getting the basic resources is not much of a problem, even tho this update is certainly a QoL improvement. The real bottleneck are rare woods.

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3 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

 

This sounds great but will only help if you can upgrade the ports to grow good woods like teak or whiteoak...Getting the basic resources is not much of a problem, even tho this update is certainly a QoL improvement. The real bottleneck are rare woods.

If we can upgrade/invest ports to have 1 rare resource forest or whatever. Then this is a different story and would be fantastic. A wait and see attitude is best, but i've had enough "wait and see" that I just become frustrated.

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2 hours ago, admin said:
  • Clans who developed the port will be able to get ships with one click.
  • Enemy clans who do not want to spend time developing ports can try to capture the port from the enemies (why build if you can cap).

I've been thinking about this and i'm getting worried.  There are several very powerful clans right now and a port that has received a heavy investment will be an extremely attractive target.  Knowing this, why would a midsize clan make the effort...knowing it can all be lost when the bullies turn to you?  The only option is to join the biggest, baddest clan, right?

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3 hours ago, pit said:

So this game is being taking over by a bunch of rich spoiled brats?? Can’t be bothered to craft.  Wow GG, this game is literally replacing vets with dlc happy kids. Bye bye rvr, Econ hello streamline arena

Work harder at your job and earn more money so you can keep up... not my fault you’re [redacted]

I am a crafter in this game. I fight for fun and YouTube video material... I have no problem with DLC ships... they’ve not hurt my crafting one tiny bit!!! All this ruined eco talk is Fake News!!!! Exactly what I’d expect from [redacted]

Warning issued

mod team

Edited by resarE
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ok, we'll see, but are you working on any change around port battles & hostility ? 

Cause in the current state, no small clan will ever be able to defend a port in a remote part of the map far from any help. So do you really imagine such clan conquering & investing just to see the port stolen by any strong nation of the moment ?

 

This looks more like a gift for strong & famous clans than anything else.

Edited by Baptiste Gallouédec

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Just now, Diceman said:

Work harder at your job and earn more money so you can keep up... not my fault you’re a unemployed, living in moms basement, socialist... 

I am a crafter in this game. I fight for fun and YouTube video material... I have no problem with DLC ships... they’ve not hurt my crafting one tiny bit!!! All this ruined eco talk is Fake News!!!! Exactly what I’d expect from a unemployed, living in moms basement, socialist!

You played the "mom's basement" card"!  For shame.  I too, enjoy crafting but I can't agree that its fine.  I just can't see any reason to craft a ship if I don't have the best mats.  The problem with this argument is that we are living in a fake world between the old ways and the wipe.  I have plenty of ships from the good ole days and therefor do not need to craft.  What will happen at the wipe?  Will I have to use second tier (or worse) mats to build my ships?  Will I have to cozy up to a clan leader in order to use the mats he controls?  Will I just use DLC's?  In addition...with these changes to the economy, I feel like there will be a lot less traders in OW.  There already is a lot fewer that I can see. 

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13 minutes ago, Diceman said:

Work harder at your job and earn more money so you can keep up... not my fault you’re a unemployed, living in moms basement, socialist... 

While in RL I'm pretty conservative, I have to admit in this game I am very socialist.  We need easier access to all materials for healthy game play.  Multiple ways to make money and buy what you need.  No Elites withholding mats from the lower orders. This will put more ships in OW...which is what we all want.

Edited by Angus MacDuff

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