Patch 30: General feedback

[Archaos]

8 minutes ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

Knowing general behaviour of clans, this would not work at all. Or this game would first require:

- Either an in game diplomacy system, that clans cannot overpass.

- Or the cancellation of nations (and as a consequence of all independent players)

This is the current system with the clan resource missions. The problems are that there are currently some bugs in the missions preventing people from getting the missions and there appears to be a general lack of interest in many players to make the effort to get the doubloons to test these missions and generate the rare resources required by crafters.

People claim there is a lack of resources but even when they are put on the auction for a reasonable price people do not buy them. I placed 1k LO logs on at KPR for 120 Reals each and they are not selling. At 120 Reals it equates to a price of 12 Reals per Doubloon spent to get them, including the fact that I have had to transport them at risk.

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

8 minutes ago, Wyy said:

its funny how everyone thinks its all about the ship, but in the end its about the individual skill of every single player

Well, a craftsman may build the perfect ship, in the end,  she is just a tool, give her to an idiot and she'll have a short life, give her to an artisan and she will produce victory after victory until someone else who is better, or luckier on the day, comes along and sinks her.

How often have there been instances where state of the art technology was beaten by antique equipment operated by average people? Individual skill counts, so does the will to beat the odds, most players are average, most of their equipment will not be the best, so they compensate in other areas.

The reality is that you make the best of what you have, find the weaknesses of high tech and expertise and exploit the heck out of those, you won't win every time, but when they lose their loss is greater, they'll come back of course, with another high tech ship, writing it all off to a bad day. Who knows, perhaps you may be that someone better, if you are, remember this, that the woods, books and upgrades mean nothing without the knowledge, skill, and, the will to stay on top, otherwise, your stay among the elite will be very brief.

 

 

 

[Aquillas]

13 minutes ago, Archaos said:

This is the current system with the clan resource missions. The problems are that there are currently some bugs in the missions preventing people from getting the missions and there appears to be a general lack of interest in many players to make the effort to get the doubloons to test these missions and generate the rare resources required by crafters.

People claim there is a lack of resources but even when they are put on the auction for a reasonable price people do not buy them. I placed 1k LO logs on at KPR for 120 Reals each and they are not selling. At 120 Reals it equates to a price of 12 Reals per Doubloon spent to get them, including the fact that I have had to transport them at risk.

Maybe because reals are a problem now. Rich people don't need you LO, poor people can't buy it.

[Aquillas]

In For-Royal, I saw white oak for sale at 2500 each. For those who like!

[Teutonic]

41 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

An Oak/Oak Christian is also one full knot faster. 
Also 6 pound longs penetrate 102 thickness on parallel sides.

Stop comparing only the values that fit your narrative and start painting the whole picture.

and again - damage increase on all cannons makes it a mute point.

Again, a Teak/WO ship - which is considered one of the best combinations by many - really only creates a certain layout of perm mods and books. If you were to change the woods, you will most likely change the mods and books in the setup.

do the best woods give you extra stats that other woods don't? Yeah

Does it matter? arguably, no. 

did you know a Teak/Sabicu ship is only 1% HP difference and 2% Thickness difference to a Teak/WO ship? Did you know a te/sab ship has slightly better crew protection, better fire, and better leak protection? When you actually factor in mods and books, the only difference you'll likely see at the end is a 2% thickness difference....to which then the Teak/Sabicu ship is well, actually better in many situations because of the new cannon damage and the other bonuses you get. Yet for the longest time people think Sabicu is trash, and some still think it is.

I think many players will realize that Oak/Oak isn't terrible, it's "standard." 

The issue with many of the wood bonuses/stats is that players largely only care about speed, thickness, and armor and entirely forget about every other stat when those stats can be important to consider. Some of those stats don't have many mods/books to affect them and wood becomes the primary stat adjuster. 

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Teutonic

[Aquillas]

32 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

The issue with many of the wood bonuses/stats is that players largely only care about speed, thickness, and armor and entirely forget about every other stat when those stats can be important to consider. Some of those stats don't have many mods/books to affect them and wood becomes the primary stat adjuster. 

That's true that even admiralty crafted ships can have some advantages. I used one successfully in the last shallow water PB I did (my original ship was screened).

A pity that these ships vanished from auctions with last patch...

Edited March 11, 2019 by Eleazar de Damas

[Palatinose]

4 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said:

All of these suggestions address how a player should compensate for not having a rare commodity.  What it does not address is that handing rare stuff to specific clans puts power over other players into the hands of that clan (clan leader).  This is effectively giving someone a monopoly over a resource.  Not good for the game, IMO, but i'll leave it alone for now. 

On a side note: shortness in supplies also puts people closer together. Never since the last big wipe have I had that much fun in NA due to people of one nation cooperating that closely. When we had few we shared to a much higher degree than in later stages when everybody had everything. 

[Tom Farseer]

1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

Since when the only possible fight happens at close range and all ships fighting always in paralel.

It is funny to read these comments about thickness when most of the people wont hesitate to equip cartagena or navy structure in the line ships.

I have seen the performance-survability of a teak christian and a live oak one and the differences are noticiable.

But hell, what do I know.

 

So have I.
Yes Live/White will survive longer if both captains are of equal skill or the one sailing Oak does not know his sh*t.
The argument that not every battle is fought side to side kinda works against you though. At a decent angle the difference in thickness is not that important.
There's a reason several "high-profile" GB Clans prefer Teak/White builds over Live/White in Portbattles even though thickness and HP are lower....

Edit: I am not trying to convince anyone that Oak/Oak is not a weaker build than others, but it is not a condemnation to losing every battle, as some make it out to be. Skill matters more than gear, even with current damage model. Period.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Tom Farseer

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

I will love to see 2 fleets engaging of similar experienced players, one of oak and another of live oak, and check the results.

Your guys are mostly talking about duels.

 

It's not just fighting.  It's speed.  OW speed is affected by build.  You can get it with fir, but then you're paper.

[van der Clam]

Dear @admin, please don't listen to these people who demand instant gratification when speaking of the rank grind, or the ship/port building grind. Honestly, anyone who needs the rank instantly will not play this game for more than a week. You must look at why people will continue to play this game after they have ranked up. What will make them come back the following week if everyone can build every ship instantly and limitlessly. The conquesting? Why would they come for that when the enemy can just rebuild all their ships endlessly and recapture it in 2 days. The PvP? Possibly, but they can get pvp in any game without any detriment of loss, because most other games are arena style. All I'm asking is please don't kowtow to those who need instant gratification. The grind for desirable things is what makes people continue playing a game...for a large part. 

[Teutonic]

4 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

Dear @admin, please don't listen to these people who demand instant gratification when speaking of the rank grind, or the ship/port building grind. Honestly, anyone who needs the rank instantly will not play this game for more than a week. You must look at why people will continue to play this game after they have ranked up. What will make them come back the following week if everyone can build every ship instantly and limitlessly. The conquesting? Why would they come for that when the enemy can just rebuild all their ships endlessly and recapture it in 2 days. The PvP? Possibly, but they can get pvp in any game without any detriment of loss, because most other games are arena style. All I'm asking is please don't kowtow to those who need instant gratification. The grind for desirable things is what makes people continue playing a game...for a large part. 

partially agree but I don't think we have to worry.

It is important to have mechanics and systems in the game that can be enjoyable even if we repeat them over and over again. I believe we are getting there, but  I completely understand folks who may be upset that it took so long.

[Thonys]

i do not like The ROE for going into battle  on battle rating closing the battle by visible slots  

also, the 2 minutes is to short

its a denial of pvp  for others 

what i also don't understand is that some are screaming for pvp and those same people say close the battle  instantly and it needs battle rating 1:1.5

the more i play this game the more i dislike timers... and denials...

pls stop with all the denials and restrictions, it's killing the fun.(there is a destriction for almost everything  for example slots on ships, denial of goods and upgrade availability, i can go on forever )

WHY....? this should not be" the game of Denial"

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Thonys

[Angus MacDuff]

15 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

Dear @admin, please don't listen to these people who demand instant gratification when speaking of the rank grind, or the ship/port building grind

I haven't heard anybody asking for that.  I'm all for a good grind.  I just think that soon, it will be impossible for some players to get rare wood without the approval of another player (clan leader).  When I say that rare wood should be made more available, i'm not asking for a hand-out.  just take it out of other player's hands and make it national.  The clans can still have their tax income.

[Sir Texas Sir]

11 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I haven't heard anybody asking for that.  I'm all for a good grind.  I just think that soon, it will be impossible for some players to get rare wood without the approval of another player (clan leader).  When I say that rare wood should be made more available, i'm not asking for a hand-out.  just take it out of other player's hands and make it national.  The clans can still have their tax income.

As long as we can still get some of the resources from say AI traders as loot it helps.  The other thing I think @admin once mention doing a BR mechanic on the port that goes up with the more money it make and maybe resources you pump into it.   This means any port built up gets a higher BR as it gets built.  Which means small super clans can't hold down one or two important ports, they actually will need the rest of the nation and they can't piss off those players.  Other wise bigger nations will just use numbers against them which they should be allowed.   Only none important off to the side ports should have small BR's.   This is a PvP/PvE server (War) so folks will have to grind AI if they want to rank up or do pure PvP.  Maybe it would force more of the so called Hard Core guys that just gank all the time to actually fight each other to get rank.  Though one thing we should prevent is capitals being used as only hunting grounds to pick off newbies and casuals just cause the hardcore players can't stand they are doing PvE to level up.  That is going to run off more players than anything.    Give reason and incentive for folks to take higher risks in game.

[van der Clam]

23 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

partially agree but I don't think we have to worry.

It is important to have mechanics and systems in the game that can be enjoyable even if we repeat them over and over again. I believe we are getting there, but  I completely understand folks who may be upset that it took so long.

Indeed, but a week to me is not too long. IMO, a month is not too long. For me, I welcomed the daily grind in most games, provided it was an even playing field..not even battles..but an even chance between all players to accomplish the same things. And I find this game to have that perfect balance of equality between players, as opposed to other games that you can just buy your way to the top.

12 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I haven't heard anybody asking for that.  I'm all for a good grind.  I just think that soon, it will be impossible for some players to get rare wood without the approval of another player (clan leader).  When I say that rare wood should be made more available, i'm not asking for a hand-out.  just take it out of other player's hands and make it national.  The clans can still have their tax income.

This I totally agree with. The new port autonomy needs to allow the clan to set the ports production for the port, allocating some of those resources to the clan, but anyone in nation should have rights to build an outpost there and have their our little production. Let the clan make the tax off the outpost and partially from the resources collected...or something of the like. A soloist should have the same abilities as a clansmen, albeit at a smaller/slower rate, certainly.

[DeRuyter]

5 hours ago, Borch said:

Crafting is a mess atm.

Aga and Inger requires only dubloons. Indefatigable requires permit missing in the admiralty. Wappen requires both dubloon and permit.

6th rate crafting is interesting. The only ships you can craft without problem are Brig, N. Brig, Snow and Mercury. Every other ship require permit and the best and easiest way to play 6th rate is just buying Requin DLC. Theese are the second smallest ships in game and they are blocked behind combat medals. Mercury BR is even higher than Prince and Rattle, yet the permit is required for both lower BR ships.

Renomee and Surprise require permit as well and how do they compare top other permit 5th rates like Trinco and Endy?

Overall, current crafting is broken. It's not even about Sol's. Regular ships that people could craft and sail on a daily basis are locked. Plenty permits are missing in the admiraly as well. Crafting some of the ships is simply inviable when it comes to price, performance mats availability. In general this could cause you big drop in PvP activity.

Curious myself why certain ships are now behind a CM wall. I know @admin the idea to make certain ships rare, but I am not sure you have the right ships for the permits. I expected line ships and some 4th rates but not small ships. Surprise one of the original ships in game and more of a light frigate. Why permit that? Renomee? Putting the Prince and Niagara  behind a permit gives an advantage to players with the LRQ DLC. I hope you will adjust this and remove permits from some of the more popular small ships. 

[LeBoiteux]

5 minutes ago, DeRuyter said:

Curious myself why certain ships are now behind a CM wall. I know @admin the idea to make certain ships rare, but I am not sure you have the right ships for the permits. I expected line ships and some 4th rates but not small ships. 

Little ships, little wall, isn't it ? 2 (or is it 3) CM for a Rattlesnake, isn't it ?

[Teutonic]

8 minutes ago, DeRuyter said:

Curious myself why certain ships are now behind a CM wall. I know @admin the idea to make certain ships rare, but I am not sure you have the right ships for the permits. I expected line ships and some 4th rates but not small ships. Surprise one of the original ships in game and more of a light frigate. Why permit that? Renomee? Putting the Prince and Niagara  behind a permit gives an advantage to players with the LRQ DLC. I hope you will adjust this and remove permits from some of the more popular small ships. 

I definitely think it's interesting.

the Light shallow frigates are behind a permit wall, and some of the "best" 6th rates as well.

Yet we have the requin and Hercules able to be redeemed every 24 hours and are just as good. Economically speaking, there is no point for someone who owns these DLCs to being making shallow ships now.

As much as I like the new damages from cannons, there is still a clear balancing "issue" with shallow ships.

Couldn't we just go back to Doubloons? 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Teutonic

[van der Clam]

10 minutes ago, DeRuyter said:

Curious myself why certain ships are now behind a CM wall. I know @admin the idea to make certain ships rare, but I am not sure you have the right ships for the permits. I expected line ships and some 4th rates but not small ships. Surprise one of the original ships in game and more of a light frigate. Why permit that? Renomee? Putting the Prince and Niagara  behind a permit gives an advantage to players with the LRQ DLC. I hope you will adjust this and remove permits from some of the more popular small ships. 

Agreed

2 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

I definitely think it's interesting.

the Light shallow frigates are behind a permit wall, and some of the "best" 6th rates as well.

Yet we have the requin and Hercules able to be redeemed every 24 hours and are just as good. Economically speaking, there is no point for someone who owns these DLCs to being making shallow ships now.

As much as I like the new damages from cannons, there is still a clear balancing "issue" with shallow ships.

Agreed

IMO, requiring CMs is not the way to make ships rare. The way to do it is by making the built time take longer, either by requiring more resources or labor hours, or by setting an actual time to build. No game should ever make elite items for only elite players, except for rewards that would have no impact on the survivability of non-elite players. Meaning, let CMs buy paints, or flags, or other cosmetic things, but not ships that can destroy all other ships. The only ships, I feel, that should be rare are SoLs....make them take longer to produce. Make it take a nation to produce SoLs. And stop with the RNG quality....give us officers back and one of them being a shipwright that is trained and leveled up.

[jodgi]

1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

Couldn't we just go back to Doubloons?

Nah, you can farm those in pve. Combat medals make people PvP instead of chewing on bots in remote corners.

[Vizzini]

1 minute ago, jodgi said:

Nah, you can farm those in pve. Combat medals make people PvP instead of chewing on bots in remote corners.

can you get them killing players on the ow ? or just in the zones ?

[jodgi]

2 minutes ago, Vizzini said:

can you get them killing players on the ow ? or just in the zones ?

PvP hunt missions and PZ only. I believe it is to avoid the farming of noobs around starter points. 

[SS Minnow]

Why can't we see ALL SHIPS?  Bad advertising I say.  No wonder no one is buying my Bellona for 85k :-0

Edited March 11, 2019 by SS Minnow

[Teutonic]

I do wish there was a "see all" tab.

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 hours ago, Teutonic said:

I do wish there was a "see all" tab.

Yah I noticed that the other day when I was getting a basic cutter to move around.  It needs an all ship function @admin?