Patrol ROE

[Sento de Benimaclet]

Patrol 1v1 is a good idea.  Both only have to worry about being better than the opposite.

[Gregory Rainsborough]

Solo patrol would be awesome.

My issue is that in OW, folks join after the battle starts thus ruining my lovely fight and turning it into a gank. Anything that encourages an even fight is to be welcomed.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Gregory Rainsborough

[vazco]

6 hours ago, admin said:

Time to discuss Patrol ROE.

Finally! I want to kiss you! Can I kiss you?  Hell, I'll ask my girlfriend to kiss you too!

 

6 hours ago, admin said:

What is bothering you in patrols?

The fact that once you start a somewhat even battle, after a few minutes a gank comes and makes battle pointless and boring. Please implement 1.5 BR limit for people who enter patrol battles after they start. It will make patrols much more popular, more fun and engaging.

In the same time it should be possible to tag someone in a group with BR larger than 1.5, provided people are in the circle, or eg. can join the battle within 30 seconds.

 

Your ideas for solo and group tournaments are also nice. Please however fix patrol zone ROE first -I think it's much more important and requested much more often.

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

Make patrol zones battles stay open as long as for ow but not longer.

Also allow the side with -2x br of his enemies, to escape the instance.  

[Old Crusty]

The Patrol Zone needs to be a place where quality PvP happens. Battles need to be limited so that one side is not to much bigger than the other.

1.3 and 1.5 has been suggested. I think it can go up to 2:1 

only allow a tag if it is a 2:1 br difference or smaller. When the battle starts close the side with the br advantage and only allow players to join the smaller side until their side had the br advantage. Then close that side and open the other side.

battle can stay open this way for 30 minutes.

Do not allow basic cutters to join battles in the Patrol Zones.

if the Patrol Zones were fixed you would find them full of people as soon as the word spread.

on the PvE server you should allow AI fleet ships to join battle so that you can get more than one enemy ship in the battle 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Old Crusty

[Hullabaloo]

What is the point of trading at all if there is no risk? That's boring. Patrols are the problem, not the solution. No one is playing anymore, and those that are left can only find action in (or near  ) the Patrol Zone. OW sailing and finding stuff to fight was the best part of this game, now it's dead. I liked this game cos it was hard and you got ganked, there was a fear factor, trading was risky, leaving the port was risky! You could get attacked anywhere. Now its lame. As long as you avoid the zone you're pretty much safe. This whole thread worries me. Patrol zone ROE? Why is admin even asking us about this anyway?  how hard can it be? If you have to have these shit patrols just design a mechanic that discourages wildly uneven battles already!  Stop dumbing everything down, giving up and being lazy with the game mechanics: sending us all off to some zone arbitrarily placed on the map to go fight other players who don't have anything to do either, like American Gladiator morons. Actually use some imagination and game design skills and create a game world that we can enjoy and invest in? If the Patrol Zone IS PvP and that's what this game is now being designed around then it is dead already. Design the game on the assumption that people will play it! Don't design the game in such a way as to give people something to do because people are NOT playing it! Because if you do that then people won't play it and that is exactly what we are witnessing atm.

[Slim McSauce]

^ I can get behind this, give patrol zone to PORTS UNDER HOSTILITY! IT MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE NOT TO DO! I really do hate the arbitrary arena combat with no goal other than do damage for points.

[Hullabaloo]

Exactly, Hethwill made this suggestion earlier in this thread. That would at least be a start.

[Slim McSauce]

and it would be very simple too, the code is mostly all there. A benefit to RvR and PvP,  two birds with one stone.

[Old Crusty]

14 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Stop shouting.  A player is moving from one spot to another, whether it is Patrol zone, trading or going to a PB. They get tagged and destroyed, failing to accomplish their mission.  Why is what I did different from taking down a trader with all of his money invested in one load.  I would have been happy to go into the Patrol zone if it weren't broken.

You would be happy to go into the Patrol Zone if it wasn’t broken. 

This statement from someone that has been crying since I have been on this Forum that PvP was to hard to come by. And here I am, and others like me that prefer a majority PvE experience going freely into the Patrol Zones seeking PvP even though the Patrol Zones were broken.

Have you ever bothered to wonder why that is? Maybe if you came down from your high horse you could see that even broken, the Patrol Zones were the place that average and below average skill players could at least get rewarded for participating in PvP.

So you and others like you say from your high horse, if you can’t win then you don’t deserve a reward. And then what happens? Those below average players quit the game because it takes to long to get ahead. Then what happens? Average players are now the below average players and are now the ones being prayed on. They can’t get the rewards for PvP combat any more because they are losing all the time. Then they quit. This cycle will continue.

The sad part about this is that all you had to do to keep them in the game so that you could kill them every day and satisfy your Ego is let them have a little reward for their efforts. And please do not bring up insurance because that is just a bad joke.

 

[Sir Loorkon]

The main issue with the patro zones is the ganking. A good limit to denie joining the high BR side and start with 1,3 to 1,5 BR difference should fix it.

Maybe it could be a good idea not to use BR  but a new PvP rank system (the actual rank system is PvE based and worthless for PvP). There are very good suggestions to do both things in this and other threads.

[Donjuan Dimarco]

Basically, the Developer-Team should follow the idea of "Who dares wins" and get a reasonable reward like poods for example. What the game is killing at the moment is the followed idea "Who ganks wins" making skills useless.

[resarE]

Please stay on topic. Admin asked about Patrol ROE and that is what we should keep our comments about. There are some overlapping issues, sure, but this topic gets cluttered if we let ourselves go with any opinion just slightly tangent to patrol ROE.

This topic has more leeway:

 

[staun]

22 hours ago, Sir Loorkon said:

The main issue with the patro zones is the ganking. A good limit to denie joining the high BR side and start with 1,3 to 1,5 BR difference should fix it.

Maybe it could be a good idea not to use BR  but a new PvP rank system (the actual rank system is PvE based and worthless for PvP). There are very good suggestions to do both things in this and other threads.

With a 1,3 ore a 1,5 you pretty much make it a solo game.  I play with my son. We both go to the patrolezone in 2 trinc. We see a solo player, lets say trinc to just to make it easy. Only on of us can fight him. So play together and fight together with him basicly is over.

I can tell you what will happend. The best PvP player will go solo and because of the BR of 1,3-1,5 they allways will get 1 vs 1. fair fights, well if you look at numbers of players. Yep it is. Fair in terms of skill, well maybe less. Just look at the kill ratio of the best players provided by admin. (I know, ppl just have to practice. Then we all will be good players).

But do think the solution with 2 different patrole areas is a good idea. Both should be opend every day. I do think they should change the Br limited soe it fits the new reality of ppl in generel sayling 5 rates. And limited to maybe 4 ore 5 players in the grp patrole because I think that numbers fit a bit more the sizes of small clans. The 2 solutions gives the duel players a place to go, where they can get there fair fights they want and maybe we can stop the endless demand to make this in to a duel game. Those that like group play will also have a place.

Edit.

What would be nice was if we could have a free teleport a day in to the patrolezone where you spaw at random locations. Groups ofc spawn together. I know it would take ppl a bit out of OW, but if would be a big help for those that have work and kids, a group said by admin also should be able to play the game in a good way and stil have fun.

Edited December 2, 2018 by staun

[Sir Loorkon]

1 hour ago, staun said:

With a 1,3 ore a 1,5 you pretty much make it a solo game.  I play with my son. We both go to the patrolezone in 2 trinc. We see a solo player, lets say trinc to just to make it easy. Only on of us can fight him. So play together and fight together with him basicly is over.

I understand. Sadly my son did not play any more but it was great fun to sail together with him. How about implementing a PvP rank? It could solve the problem. The main point should be to get more ballanced fights. Atm I do not sail in the patrol zone because it boars me to get ganked again and again. 

[staun]

3 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

I understand. Sadly my son did not play any more but it was great fun to sail together with him. How about implementing a PvP rank? It could solve the problem. The main point should be to get more ballanced fights. Atm I do not sail in the patrol zone because it boars me to get ganked again and again. 

There will be 2 patrol zones. One with 1 vs 1. There ppl can get all the fair fights they want. The second with 6, I do think should be lowered to 4 players each side, But thats only because I think it will fit the smaller clans. Bigger clans can always make 2 grp.

It is fair enough that only limitedf fights count for the Weekly contest, but do think ppl should still get damage reward for all fight. 

For OW it is a bit harder to make a system, that don’t eliminate group plays. If it is a low PvP ranking player we tag one will still have to stay out. I started to go out in a group, think it is how many starts to do PvP, so not to sure eliminate group play is a good thing.

Before this patch I most time went to the patrole zone alone. But now where I only sail 5 rate and belove, there is actually few patrole zones that make sence to go to. I know I will be ganked, still I like those fights. Personally duel fights isent that interesting for me. But group fights ore as many of my patrol fights where 2-3 guys try to kill me, I think are fun.

[Hullabaloo]

'What is bothering you in Patrols' is the question I am answering (so it's defo on topic):

The recent economy patch with it's high doubloon rewards for participating in Patrols, and this thread (opened by admin) about Patrol ROE with the announcement of 'solo' and clan based 'group' patrols, leads me to think Patrols are going to be the main focus for PvP now? To me these are just arbitrary battles on a random area of the map, where the result has no bearing on anything (except a dick swinging contest). 

Imo it is a mistake to design patrols as an isolated system. It would be much better have them integrated into a wider war/conquest system. One that different kinds of players can all feel like they are participating in. Locating them around hostility and Port Battles has already been suggested here. Very simple, but at least a step in the right direction. If you do decide you want them as isolated events then there needs to be an alternative source of PvP.

The 'faction warfare' system in Eve Online ( pretty flawed I agree and should have been updated by now) is an example of how PvP, PvE, Trading and logistics, solo and clan activity can all be integrated into a conquest system that works as a magnet for PvP.  It should be possible to design something even better for Naval Action.

I'm as tired of banging on about this as people are of reading it. @admin do us all a favour and give us some idea whether or not anything like this is likely to be introduced (and then I promise to shut up about it).

[Liq]

On 11/30/2018 at 11:25 AM, Suricato Rojo said:

PVP patrol is not PVP and it harms more than it helps real PVP.
The only real PVP generated with the PVP patrol is the one that occurs outside the area.

So you're saying, a fair 3v3 similar ships is not pvp

And

A squad of fast frigates / schooners ganging up on single new players in brigs is pvp

Excuse me, but, what?

[jodgi]

5 hours ago, staun said:

With a 1,3 ore a 1,5 you pretty much make it a solo game.  I play with my son. We both go to the patrolezone in 2 trinc. We see a solo player, lets say trinc to just to make it easy. Only on of us can fight him. So play together and fight together with him basicly is over.

No, you misunderstand. There will not be limits on first tag in normal patrol zones. We suggest limits when joining existing battles so they don't grow lopsided but rather somewhat equal and large. Within the first two minutes of first tag you're free to gank your heart out, even in "manufactured" patrol zones. 

Special duel patrol zone would ofcourse be solo content.

[Tiedemann]

PATROL ROE "sluice" suggestion:

Why is it not possible to make ROE mechanic that only only allows players to join on the lowest BR side?? And when the lowest BR side becomes the high BR side it should switch, so players can continuously join what ever side has the lowest BR until you reach theoretically 25 vs 25, but in a much more controlled way.. 

Edit: This is for joining a battle instance after the initial tag and drag - So by joining battle cross and the circles in OW. Imo intended for patrol - but could be glorious as ROE around active PB's because it can help counter zerg nation somewhat.  

Edited December 3, 2018 by Tiedemann

[jodgi]

11 minutes ago, Tiedemann said:

PATROL ROE "sluice" suggestion:

Why is it not possible to make ROE mechanic that only only allows players to join on the lowest BR side?? And when the lowest BR side becomes the high BR side it should switch, so players can continuously join what ever side has the lowest BR until you reach theoretically 25 vs 25, but in a much more controlled way.. 

 

It is possible.

If we're going to introduce anti-gank stuff we need a plan to handle a group coming to an existing battle.

[admin]

22 minutes ago, Tiedemann said:

PATROL ROE "sluice" suggestion:

Why is it not possible to make ROE mechanic that only only allows players to join on the lowest BR side?? And when the lowest BR side becomes the high BR side it should switch, so players can continuously join what ever side has the lowest BR until you reach theoretically 25 vs 25, but in a much more controlled way.. 

 

So if players are only able to join the lowest BR - what are the chances they are not going to help their friends who are on the other side due to BR limits by blocking you? Or accidentally shooting you to slow you down? If they cannot enter (today's rule) what is the point of the lowest BR rule? its better to just limit the size of battles and get done with it. Solo patrol - you are on your own but cannot get ganked. Group patrol 6 players can join and that's it. Simple and easy to understand what you can face. 

 

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, admin said:

So if players are only able to join the lowest BR - what are the chances they are not going to help their friends who are on the other side due to BR limits by blocking you? Or accidentally shooting you to slow you down? 

 

That's a choice they could make.  I like this idea a lot.  They can either join one at a time on both sides (and have a fun fight) or hang around outside the battle.  That makes them available for someone else to tag.

[Sir Texas Sir]

You know I was sitting here thinking, could we maybe have a FFA type patrol zone once in a while?  May be the shallows have a second one that pops (can be same days as others) that the battles are all FFA's so eveyr one can kill each other and make it kinda like a last man standing for those that pick to do them?  I mention shallows since it's cheaper ships you can use. 

This gives the gankers some where to go and might actually turn on them.  I wouldn't make any big prices for doing it as the spirit of the battle should be the price, but it will allow for same nation players to fight each other too. Maybe limit it to so many ships or only a short time you can join.  That way folks are coming in late when others are damaged.

[Tiedemann]

18 minutes ago, admin said:

So if players are only able to join the lowest BR - what are the chances they are not going to help their friends who are on the other side due to BR limits by blocking you? Or accidentally shooting you to slow you down? If they cannot enter (today's rule) what is the point of the lowest BR rule? its better to just limit the size of battles and get done with it. Solo patrol - you are on your own but cannot get ganked. Group patrol 6 players can join and that's it. Simple and easy to understand what you can face.

Not 100% sure I get the main argument here, but I will try:

• Nations still apply, so they are locked out until their nations sides BR is the lowest. But good news, because of new ROE they are not as easy to super gank so they miht get a good fight staying out in OW alone! And if they want to help their mate they can screen our other players who try to join his battle on the low side.. I see no issue here what so ever, but you could let the battle be open as normal for the first 2 minutes and then enable the sluice mechanic. 
• If your bringing up the issue: "What if they are a group of players from different nations playing together and they join on both sides just to kill you". Then they are either doing FF documented in game or just not engaging. Both cases is tribunal maters and a severe exploit of the current game mechanic. Because this is possible today, only difference is you only have 2 minutes to join and if they are going to do this then the 2 minutes are more than enough anyway. You can't account for all the random shit players do in a game, that is impossible. You can just execute them when you catch them  
  BullShitStatment: I have encountered this once that I'm aware, and I believe you guys issued warnings to the filthy Swedish f***tards. I on the other hand, is not so forgiving. So I show a fist to all Swedish- scum I encounter in RL after this incident!!! Okay not true, I just took a couple mount break from the game.. But still you should have demoted all their sorry asses for that EXCPLOIT! I'm totally open for for having Ink revisiting that case at any time.. That incident had an negative emotional impact on my gaming soul! So lets say all involved Swedish-*ickheads should have to pay 2M reals each to the Russian Tsar? And if they can not pay the they should be forced to forfeit Cartagena 😉  

My goal is to solve the issue of super ganks in patrol area in a way that lets players join the battle long after it started. 30 min is glorious and I love this feature! You never now what can happen and when you think you have the upper hand it can change in a heart beat, but this is rare! But extremely thrilling when it does.
The sad fact in my experince most patrol fights ends up in ganks and it is very boring/sad. When you are in front of the choice of joining a 1 vs 9 battle, very very few will join the 1 player against the 9. I know I wold not, unless I'm in a shop-ship just there to get damage..