Le Requin Testing and Feedback

[z4ys]

10 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

The point is that boarding is the final stage of a loss, not a goal.  If they're boarding you they've already got the advantage and are finishing you - either having more crew to begin with, stacked with mods, or having graped your crew down.  So...a lot of people won't put on boarding mods/knowledge because they don't want to get to that point.  They don't want to put on mods/knowledge they'll only use in the process of losing, when they can put on ones they hope will keep them out of that situation. 

if people would just understand that their unwillingness to fight is the biggest reason they lose.

• Dont wait till a xebec (any other ship) is in a perfect place to attack you (ow tag) - There will always be a battle just the terms can differ
• Running - There is no better way to expose sail and stern .....
• Dont play on the enemy terms play on your terms - he shows interest to board/hug you dont get in a position so you have to follow his rules even with pirate rig xebec isnt as good as she was downwind (180°) she only has 2pd and no chain. Most ships have rear chaser ... just extend. But dont wait to the moment he is withing 250m.... he will chain you making it impossible to extend
• Reacting is allways worse than acting

 

@Hethwill the Harmless and I we had a discussion that battles should start at warning shot distance. I told him they do. But only if the captain fires a warning shot (aka counter tag) But lets be honest. Most player dont want that fight in the first place. Those player have to understand that there will always be a battle. Yes always so better fire the damn warning shot!

 

 

[Aquillas]

7 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

That all great and expect d but try that with a 6th rate.  Every thing you stated is void by the fact it has 100 more crew than any other 6th rate.  It needs to be classed as a 5th rate and BR raised along with the Herc.  

I seen this a few times getting ships down to 50% sails that still out run other ships.  If your at 50% you should never be going more than 50% max speed.  I thought k it’s the force mods that do it but haven’t caught enough of these guys to figure out the connection.  

According to physical laws and in first analysis (i.e. not taking into account the relative wind) the speed of a ship is proportional to the root square of the force in the sails, which is proportional of the sail surface when other parameters do not change.

In simple words, with 50% of sails, 70% of the speed can be reached.

[Sir Texas Sir]

16 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

According to physical laws and in first analysis (i.e. not taking into account the relative wind) the speed of a ship is proportional to the root square of the force in the sails, which is proportional of the sail surface when other parameters do not change.

In simple words, with 50% of sails, 70% of the speed can be reached.

Maybe they where at speed cap before sail damage, and now they are just below it even though they only have 50-75% sails compared to some one with 100% and they are still out running?

[huliotkd]

2 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

PS: I consider Huliotkd a better Captain than me. So if he lost, I'd lose too.

love you! lol

2 hours ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Was not 4 princes  ( if it is the situation you describe )

Was 1 privateer and 1 prince on his heels, two in the rotation perch ( wind ) some 500m to the wings. The Russian Empire frigates were going downwind chased by the GB frigates.

He wasn't going anywhere. His choice of going to the fort wouldn't be the one i'd choose though.

 

yeah you were 3 princes and 1 privateer (you hethwill). we started chaining each others but i suffered heavy sail damages so started repairing and you go on with chaining. i started at 77% and finished to 85%...you have also better tag position and better position gained in battle so my escape route was ''sieged'' by you in priv.  also going downwind with an 85% sails requin wasn't a solution cause i had to cross the other 2 prince behind you (i was also hull damaged)

my chances were die turning to you and got gunned by princes or die slowly but by the fort... ; so , fort got the kill

 

anyway, requin is a really easy target for well fitted prince or privateer...before requin, the complaining was on prince, due to its ability to run upwind...

 

@MassimoSud to be honest, we came to KPR with bellonas and you stayed in port, we came in small ships (more than 3) and you stay in port...we came in 2 requins and you esc from port but stay in reinf zone (KPR baywatch)...

we join a battle in 2 req vs 1 brit (we don't know the rank until inside the battle), and you join after got told our join position from the brit player and you spawn with 15 ships , usually 3rd to 1st rates...and we always survive, maybe loosing a ship once every 7-8 days...

 

so please, tell me what is the way you like i have to play my game then...

 

 

[Palatinose]

3 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

concern is not for me personally (never been sunk or boarded by a requin), what you should understand is that the new players and those who return to the game after a few months of absence and even those who will never learn, continually complain about how this requin is broken (and indeed it is)!
They do not accept to be defeated with the methods that I said in previous posts (chain, push, board, kill) in a few minutes. There is no fun in this (apart from the pro @Licinio Chiavari that has fun always and only in the same way!).
Why these captains never complained about your sinking when you came to KPR in pirate frigate or Bellona or Trinco? Have you ever asked it to yourself?
You offered a "fulfilling" experience even to those who you defeated, there were people who would face you to learn from you (I remember three duels I lost with you). 

What's satisfying in the battles with the requin now? NOTHING!

I understood Massimo thanks for the credit, I don't really think I deserve it. 

Well I will try to be more precise aswell then. Every player has a certain preference in sailing. Some have always been fans of the hit and run tactics. This one may like or not. To me there is basically no difference between the fir fir 5th meta and the Requin meta now (talking about capital areas). To both tactics, the targets are limited, as it will always be newbies/casuals that will suffer the most. And the coastguard will always be annoyed, as it's harr to catch them. It's a "natural development" of hunters and coastguards, which has always existed. The appearance may differ, the problem stays. Hunters establish a meta, the coastguard counters it. This problem will exist forever (unless we have fixes).

To me there is no fun in push-pull-kill, but it is a valid playstyle. So who are we to judge different playstyles? Can there be a judge at all? 

I bet there are numberous people that dislike me kiting them when they outnumber me. I dislike people that only engage when victory is certain. Does this matter? Not at all, imo.

[MassimoSud]

@huliotkd

3 hours ago, huliotkd said:

so please, tell me what is the way you like i have to play my game then...

Play the game as you prefer my dear 😏

[Jack Jones]

15 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

That all great and expect d but try that with a 6th rate.  Every thing you stated is void by the fact it has 100 more crew than any other 6th rate.  It needs to be classed as a 5th rate and BR raised along with the Herc.  

Most people on this thread are complaining about the Requin sinking 5th rates.

If you read my post I said :

{If your in any kind of frigate (5th rate) then:}

I did not mention 6th rates. I sail 5th rates.

The dev's have already said they will buff 6th rates so lets see how this goes before we continue to complain and suggest reclassifying of ships etc.

Remember we are testers after all.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Flash Jack

[Jack Jones]

10 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

What's satisfying in the battles with the requin now? NOTHING!

In the ships you sail you should have no problem at all vs a Requin.

Stop complaining and just sink them.

Get smarte,r don't chase them in 3rd rates !! Sink them in 5th rates.

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

9 minutes ago, Flash Jack said:

Most people on this thread are complaining about the Requin sinking 5th rates.

If you read my post I said :

{If your in any kind of frigate (5th rate) then:}

I did not mention 6th rates. I sail 5th rates.

The dev's have already said they will buff 6th rates so lets see how this goes before we continue to complain and suggest reclassifying of ships etc.

Remember we are testers after all.

6th rates have all ready been buffed.  The issue is it uses all the 6th rates perks/ship knowledge which is more % than 4-5th rates.  So by making it a 5th rate some of it states will be lowered and they can't stack light hammocks on the ship.  Also the 5th rates hammocks are only 15% not 20% more crew as 6th rates are.    With a ship that has over 100 more crew than any other 6th rate and states very much like other 5th rates it needs to be put in pare with them.

Actually most people are complaining about it being OP in Shallow PB"s as it's now the only ship used amoung other things.  I really don't see folks bitching about 5th rates.   If your smart they won't be able to sink you as per how you explained it, but 6th rates don't have that optoin in the shallows as it out classes them all even with the buff still.

 

[Jack Jones]

6 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

6th rates have all ready been buffed.  The issue is it uses all the 6th rates perks/ship knowledge which is more % than 4-5th rates.  So by making it a 5th rate some of it states will be lowered and they can't stack light hammocks on the ship.  Also the 5th rates hammocks are only 15% not 20% more crew as 6th rates are.    With a ship that has over 100 more crew than any other 6th rate and states very much like other 5th rates it needs to be put in pare with them.

Actually most people are complaining about it being OP in Shallow PB"s as it's now the only ship used amoung other things.  I really don't see folks bitching about 5th rates.   If your smart they won't be able to sink you as per how you explained it, but 6th rates don't have that optoin in the shallows as it out classes them all even with the buff still.

 

The devs have already said that they will be balancing the 6th rates further (in addition to last buff) however I do agree with you about the shallow water and esp port battles but the vast majority of anti requin comments mention bates witbml15 knt ballonas and numerous 5th rates and how invincible they are and how they are unable to sink them even in safe zone.

[Dibbler (Retired)]

 Just sail fast downwind ships and run with wind.

 Deny them the content, problem solved.

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Dibbler

[Aquillas]

Today, yesterday, and the day before, the Requin ganks were 4 Reqs + 3 Hercs big.

Denying all fights, and attacking all ships including basic cutters… LOL.

This proves that, and claimed by them, Req captains are poor lonesome captains, obliged to use OP ships because they are so alone...

 

Only solution: all use Reqs. Lets transform Naval Action in xebec action!

Devs eved did it! 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Aquillas

[Malachi]

On 8/26/2018 at 12:46 AM, Aquillas said:

xebec action! 

Official main theme for XA

 

I feel a little roughed up, feel a bit frightened
Nearly pin it down some time
Red sail action, wake up in the wrong town
Boy, I really get around

Thunder ocean, thunder ocean
Red sails take me, make me sail along
Red sails, and a mast so tall
Red sails, red sails

Do you remember, we another person
Green and black and red and so scared
Graffiti on the wall keep us all in tune
Bringing us all back home

Red sails, thunder ocean
Red sails, sailor can't dance like you
Red sail, red sail action
Red sail, some reaction

Action boy seen living under neon
Struggle with a foreign tongue
Red sails make him strong
Action make him sail along

Life stands still and stares
The hinterland, the hinterland
We're going to sail to the hinterland
And it's far far, far far far, far far far away
Its a far far, far far far, fa da, da da da
1, 2, 3, 4
Oooooooh

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi

[Aquillas]

An example, among so many others of the non-fights agains xebecs (Le Requin). These are ofen skipped by noobs, trying to hide they lack of skill behin OP ships.

They evade the fight as soon as their side is no more the stronger one.

A single word to describe: COWARDS, afraid for their precious free pixels… LOL

As can be seen here, the reward for these fights is almost none.

The next "pseudo-fitght" was three Reqs vs my privateer. I surrended. Never give fun to stupid noob Requins, obliged to gank a privater 3v1 to have a chance to win! LOL LOL LOL 

Then my 2nd account surrended 4 Trader-Lynx to a Req. Not a single chance to win, and even, not a single chance to fight. I was to destroy these useless ships (trader Lynx have no more room in game). This is made, without giving fun to Requin Noobs.

 

Edited August 26, 2018 by Aquillas

[Licinio Chiavari]

15 hours ago, Aquillas said:

Today, yesterday, and the day before, the Requin ganks were 4 Reqs + 3 Hercs big.

Denying all fights, and attacking all ships including basic cutters… LOL.

This proves that, and claimed by them, Req captains are poor lonesome captains, obliged to use OP ships because they are so alone...

 

Only solution: all use Reqs. Lets transform Naval Action in xebec action!

Devs eved did it! 

Yesterday 4 nation raiders (just to underline not perfectly coordinated) 4 Requin + 4 Hercules engaged in 2 battles in KPR area.

BR ratios were totally in favour of Brits... Who lost a bunch of ships including one of two bellonas (aside LGV refit, Surprise, Hercules...) Raiders losses=0.

We were definately not avoiding the fight (I clearly remember a Wasa leaving as 2 Requin and 1 Hercules turned menacingly to him).

The problem is the utterly disorganization and terrible level of skill of too many Brits in safe area. Especially among too many top ranks. Not to talk the plain stupid idea (as rightfully stated by @z4ys) of trying to flee in place of fighting.

Aside them keeping trying to counter, Requins in particular, with SoLs.

When some (usually young and very young players) Brits asked me how to fight a Requin, I gave them suggestions, as when someone else asked how to fit her I sincerely replied.

And I lost 2 Requins to these not top rank Brit that mixing my suggestions (like again barricade+axes books) with some their ideas (like having 2 privateers as fleet ships chaining me) got me (as too often) overconfident. The sweetest losses in these months: I was happy for them as they were satisfated of the success.

Higher ranked Brits are too pride to discuss tactics, too pride to look of youngers' ideas, too close minded to change playstyle (as far more kindly pointed by @Palatinose) to fight a new meta... As the game (unluckly still like majority of MMOs) has now and had in the past.

They look too busy mocking an outnumbered and utterly outgunned retreating Requin... Or whining.

Meta (ppk requin?) that CAN BE COUNTERED without using requins... As @Hethwill the Harmless and @huliotkd battle noted.

PS: the more you'll call Requin users "coward" (still I have to know what you'd do on a Requin vs. 5/10 enemies the smallest being a Trinco) the more mocking and cold hearthed they'll become.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari
Typo

[Hethwill]

Guys, we moving the discussion of the ship...

... to non ship.

Please, someone post the structural models of the Requin. The ribs, keel, etc.

That alone should be a good starting point to discuss, for example, her ability to deflect high weight shot.

[Aquillas]

5 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Guys, we moving the discussion of the ship…

Yes, the discussion is Moving to "Why playing Xebec Action?"

[z4ys]

11 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Guys, we moving the discussion of the ship...

... to non ship.

Please, someone post the structural models of the Requin. The ribs, keel, etc.

That alone should be a good starting point to discuss, for example, her ability to deflect high weight shot.

Guess its being build after the plans of https://ancre.fr/en/monograph/18-monographie-du-requin-chebec-1750-.html

 

As comparison here the ribs of the LGV

Edited August 26, 2018 by z4ys

[Hethwill]

Thanks @z4ys

Those are some "dangerously" thin ribs 😮

Do you have the planks ?

Even shot at an angle i have no problem imagining a couple of them getting shattered.

[Licinio Chiavari]

3 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Thanks @z4ys

Those are some "dangerously" thin ribs 😮

Do you have the planks ?

Even shot at an angle i have no problem imagining a couple of them getting shattered.

Like Hercules ones being "caressed" by 32+ pounders. Angling or not

[z4ys]

Just now, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Thanks @z4ys

Those are some "dangerously" thin ribs 😮

Do you have the planks ?

Even shot at an angle i have no problem imagining a couple of them getting shattered.

unfortunately thats the current state of the model. Builder is still finishing the ribs.

 

Some other pics

[Hethwill]

Just now, Licinio Chiavari said:

Like Hercules ones being "caressed" by 32+ pounders. Angling or not

We talking about such difference in construction ( and purpose of build ) that it silly being brought up.

Xebec must be what she was. Light, fast and dedicated. And suffer what she must.

[Licinio Chiavari]

18 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

We talking about such difference in construction ( and purpose of build ) that it silly being brought up.

Xebec must be what she was. Light, fast and dedicated. And suffer what she must.

I agree completely, also super frail.

But I look forward to other issues... Like the famed hullhugging allowed by frigates/corvettes withstanding 42pd at point blank.

[Fluffy Fishy]

5 hours ago, z4ys said:

Guess its being build after the plans of https://ancre.fr/en/monograph/18-monographie-du-requin-chebec-1750-.html

 

As comparison here the ribs of the LGV

.

5 hours ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Thanks @z4ys

Those are some "dangerously" thin ribs 😮

Do you have the planks ?

Even shot at an angle i have no problem imagining a couple of them getting shattered.

5 hours ago, z4ys said:

unfortunately thats the current state of the model. Builder is still finishing the ribs.

 

Some other pics

.

I have spent a long time with multiple postings trying to point out the fragility of xebecs, they are all like this, and Requin is one of the stronger ones too. Italian, Spanish, African and Turkish xebecs are all weaker constructed than French ones in that order too. The xebec should be a fantastic commerce raider, a glass cannon that takes high damage and crew loss on being shot up. It shouldn't be able to fight frigates, while 6th rates should be a pretty fair match for it. The thickness and structure given to Requin has always been far too high. She is a light ship that is good for corsairing and not much else, her sailing qualities meaning she can avoid naval ships but should she get caught by one she should be in real trouble.

They are built for almost pure speed and sailing, with very little focus on longevity in fights, the main use of naval xebecs by most nations was as a countermeasure to pirate xebecs sailed by the Berbers, this should be reflected in the game, they should also be a fairly easy ship to capsize, their draught is incredibly shallow and there is a lot of power in their sails, especially when exposed to caribbean winds, rather than the sheltered winds of the Mediterranean.

Requin is a commerce raider, not a brawler by any means. Hopefully these pictures will help contribute to that as an outcome.

[Aquillas]

I won’t enter in this discussion about the planking. Developers know that the Requin is bugged. If xebecs would have had the superior qualities shown in Naval Action, all nations would have renounced to all other kind of ships and they would have built this cheap ships only, instead of expensive 3rd rates or frigates… Staying factual, nations did not switch to 100% xebecs, proving that Naval Action is wrong.

Back to game testing...

I spent all my Sunday, in front of KPR, fighting this omnipresent ship, so called between players “le Broken Shamec”, in all fights but one (I had a fight in Belize, sorry for inconvenience). Staying factual, what did I see?

• I saw @Casanova Moderne and one of his mates attacking and sinking basic cutters skipped by 1st Lieutenants. At the contrary to what was claimed above (basic cutters are attacked because they are used by rear admirals to transport precious stuff) Xebecs are used by their captains to kill new players out of the game before they can even skip a brig… Shame on them! And shame on "protected areas", which are in fact the most dangerous places in game.
• I saw fleets of 6 xebecs + 4 Hercules ganking new players. At the contrary of what was claimed above, xebecs are not used by lone hunters.
• I saw at least one xebec taking a full broadside from a Bellona. She stayed afloat, just losing the central mast. One side was affected 75%, the structure bar not. This xebec went easily out of the battle with sails at 50%, none of the present ships being able to match his 12 knots. No other ship that the xebec could have done that, whatever the upgrades she could have… This shows that this ship model is fully unfair and bugged (may be also due to upgrades, especially modified by developers to give xebecs such capability). Same developers, who made this shitty modification on pirate rig refits in one day are now claiming that removing it would be so looooooong… LOL.
• My brigs and privateers are immediately affected by shots is sails. Xebecs are not.
• In spite of being focused by xebecs as soon as entering a fight (as so, in spite of being really engaged almost all the time), I earnt 135 XP for the privateer, 149 XP for the Brig and a fistful of gold during the whole day. I suppose I must consider this great and enough.
• The poor damage model of the shit red sailed ship was not modified, firing in the hull remains useless, you must fire above he hull to see damages (LOL), the sail antenna is not yet included in mast damage model, no change at all. No reply from developers. Just silence and contempt.

I am strongly questioning on my future in game, and I’ll search something else this evening, and I’ll change again my game evaluation to “very negative”. (The game is now very expensive because users are obliged to buy game + xebecs + herc + admiralty connection to be able to play. Then they'll discover that they can't use the two DLC's before gaining XP, they will be ganked during gaining XP and most will leave before being able to use what they purchased).

And to stick to the topic title “Le Requin Testing and Feedback”, in three words: Leave the game!

 

And the future so called "econ patch" is not at all giving me some optimism. I do think that this will again break the little remaining economy in game, by increasing risks to be taken by traders for no result. The game will be organized to reinforce their chances of being intercepted in travels and as today, they will find about nothing to buy in ports and selling prices to 1 gold everywhere it was supposed to be interesting to sell. Sorry for this last out-of-topic, this will be another story, another occasion to put players out of the game. In few words, I am afraid that the new econ patch will focus on forcing players to buy DLC’s.