Le Requin Testing and Feedback

[z4ys]

10 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

Yes and no... It is set on the keel and secured on the ships transverse axis by shrouds and backstays, and stabilised on the longitudinal axis by the stays. Killling the bowsprit, therefore breaking up the flow of tension from fore to aft will greatly affect the stability of all masts of the ship. It may not outright bring the foremast to fall but it will significantly destabilise it.

do you have a other full rigging plan of a xebec? i am not sure that front main and mizzen are connected. For me the bowsprit just looks like a addition to hoist a jib.

Because this xebec doesnt even have a bowsprit^^

Edited August 29, 2018 by z4ys

[Licinio Chiavari]

2 minutes ago, z4ys said:

do you have a other full rigging plan of a xebec? i am not sure that front main and mizzen are connected. For me the bowsprit just looks like a addition to hoist a jib.

Because this xebec doesnt even have a bowsprit^^

My proposal is in place for balance: losing bowspring is killing for a lot of square rigged in game.

In your plan still the outmost part of bow has running ropes. Losing it means some problems handling fore mast sail.

So I propose the rigging shock (needing fast repairs and another control line) without obviously losing the foremast.

[Tom Farseer]

You do have a point there. Stays would get in the way with hauling over braces (is it called a brace on a lateen sail? no idea...).
Alas, that would mean in my opinion that dismasting a xebec should if anything be easier than most square riggers.
So while losing the bowsprit should not have much of an effect on Requin it might be worth thinking about nerfing his mast HP to reflect the weaker overall construction of the standing rigging.

[z4ys]

5 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

My proposal is in place for balance: losing bowspring is killing for a lot of square rigged in game.

In your plan still the outmost part of bow has running ropes. Losing it means some problems handling fore mast sail.

So I propose the rigging shock (needing fast repairs and another control line) without obviously losing the foremast.

if you look at pictures of xebecs that lost the bowsprit (ingame) you will see what is left is exactly that what the sail plan is about. so actual you would lose nothing^^ like it is ingame

Edited August 29, 2018 by z4ys

[Aquillas]

Losing the bowsprit of a xebec should at least slow down the fore yard rotation speed. 

[z4ys]

We could ask devs to give the xebecthat jib. then the xebec could go into rigging schock^^

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

Losing the bowsprit of a xebec should at least slow down the fore yard rotation speed. 

also the xebec gains on losing the bowspirit as it gets 13 crew off of sailing

[Aquillas]

2 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

4. as I pointed out with William Death using Privateer example: Pirate rig refit is a "full bonus" on Requin (and almost the same on Privateer): so yes.
Giving requin higher sail force on ALL sails she's faster downwind too. With Elite Pirate a requin runs speed capped down to 130° (so almost broadreach).
Still: is it a ship issue or a mod one? I say the latter.

For sure, this is not an issue of the ship, but of the upgrade.

[AeRoTR]

3 hours ago, z4ys said:

and we dont want to start a discussion that 7th-6th rate boarding knowledge is the strongest 😉

It is a problem that 6th rate skill books give insane advantage. This ships needs to be a 5th rate for the sake of balance. 

*** Just one thing, that is even enough. Look at the grenades  6th-7th %50, assuming you have a Le Req with more than 300 crew with insane hammocks skillbooks and upgrades for the 6th-7th again which heavily favors only the Le Req as it has base 250 crew (closer one niagra with 155),

HE WILL WIN THE BOARDING ! against even 5th rates just with Grenades, as 5th rate grenade is %10 !

Lets forget hammocks (but the ship will have hammocks, a le req meta now)

Le Req vs Indef

250 crew vs 350 crew

%50 grenade vs %10 grenade

%50 musket vs %25 musket

plus slightly better stats on boarding parties and melee training, assuming same captains on each ships, Le Requin captain still has good chance against Indef.

Now take the Le Req with crew space+ hammocks. And lets say crew numbers are about same, the same skilled captains in each ship, Le Req has much more chance. The muskets and grenades will devastate the indef.

 

 

[z4ys]

7 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

It is a problem that 6th rate skill books give insane advantage. This ships needs to be a 5th rate for the sake of balance. 

*** Just one thing, that is even enough. Look at the grenades  6th-7th %50, assuming you have a Le Req with more than 300 crew with insane hammocks skillbooks and upgrades for the 6th-7th again which heavily favors only the Le Req as it has base 250 crew (closer one niagra with 155),

HE WILL WIN THE BOARDING ! against even 5th rates just with Grenades, as 5th rate grenade is %10 !

Lets forget hammocks (but the ship will have hammocks, a le req meta now)

Le Req vs Indef

250 crew vs 350 crew

%50 grenade vs %10 grenade

%50 musket vs %25 musket

plus slightly better stats on boarding parties and melee training, assuming same captains on each ships, Le Requin captain still has good chance against Indef.

Now take the Le Req with crew space+ hammocks. And lets say crew numbers are about same, the same skilled captains in each ship, Le Req has much more chance. The muskets and grenades will devastate the indef.

 

 

but in the other hand you make marines stronger if you make her 5th rate. instead of 50% meele dmg she will do 75%

Edited August 29, 2018 by z4ys

[Licinio Chiavari]

21 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

It is a problem that 6th rate skill books give insane advantage. This ships needs to be a 5th rate for the sake of balance. 

*** Just one thing, that is even enough. Look at the grenades  6th-7th %50, assuming you have a Le Req with more than 300 crew with insane hammocks skillbooks and upgrades for the 6th-7th again which heavily favors only the Le Req as it has base 250 crew (closer one niagra with 155),

HE WILL WIN THE BOARDING ! against even 5th rates just with Grenades, as 5th rate grenade is %10 !

Lets forget hammocks (but the ship will have hammocks, a le req meta now)

Le Req vs Indef

250 crew vs 350 crew

%50 grenade vs %10 grenade

%50 musket vs %25 musket

plus slightly better stats on boarding parties and melee training, assuming same captains on each ships, Le Requin captain still has good chance against Indef.

Now take the Le Req with crew space+ hammocks. And lets say crew numbers are about same, the same skilled captains in each ship, Le Req has much more chance. The muskets and grenades will devastate the indef.

 

 

The problem is another mate.

On a big 5th rate you should avoid being stern camped... and, with minimal defense (barricade+axes) being able to safely disangage in 2 rounds even outnumbered. Especially if you prepare for boarding when it's close.

Again: if some captains want to go fitted only (and damn well so) for gunnery/repair and nothing for boarding, it's plain normal that during a boarding a full fitted border will smash them. As in a gunnery engagement they'll have a huge edge over a boarding fitted ship.
Matter of choises.

PS: I do not remember my duelist requin v requin. Do you? He said he'll do a video, I'd like to watch it for study.

[Licinio Chiavari]

Speaking back about Requin post patch.

With (hidden) nerf to sail force mods (both Spanish and Pirate bonus malus dropped to +10/-10 and  +20/-20 - normal and elite respectively - from previous +15/-15 and +30/-30) Requin fitted with basic pirate is not anymore speed capped (if not superlight - to be checked) at any point of sail.
Elite fitted requins are still speed capped at close haul and beam and have an higher speed loss the more going downwind. That I consider quite fair.

Side effect of sail force mod nerf, acceleration is clearly less now.

Coupled with buffs to Prince (+.5 top speed and better downwind profile) and Privateer (even bigger buff) a starting step rebalancing these example of raiders has been properly done IMO.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari

[Leavon]

Remove this game breaking ship.

[Licinio Chiavari]

2 hours ago, Leavon said:

Remove this game breaking ship.

It's game breaking for those not knowing her.

[MassimoSud]

2 hours ago, Leavon said:

Remove this game breaking ship.

no mate, only it needs to be nerfed as long as it is not so OP!

However yesterday I was in battle with my hercules (14.3 knots) against a Bellona and a le broken and I tried to run away with the wind in the stern, le broken behind me, I took 45 min to get away! So this story that just get the wind at 180 ans run is a huge crap!

And my hercules was certainly among those we can consider fast! Try to imagine what can happen to a "normal" ship in terms of speed!

So le broken decides to run away at 45 degrees with 50% sails and without bowsprit and it takes 1 minute to do that, a square rigged ship decides to run away and if it is fast it takes 45 min! Still convinced that it is not "le broquen"?

And before any scientist can argue that even the hercules is OP I answer right away that it's true, but not as much as Ie broken is anyway!

[Licinio Chiavari]

33 minutes ago, MassimoSud said:

no mate, only it needs to be nerfed as long as it is not so OP!

However yesterday I was in battle with my hercules (14.3 knots) against a Bellona and a le broken and I tried to run away with the wind in the stern, le broken behind me, I took 45 min to get away! So this story that just get the wind at 180 ans run is a huge crap!

And my hercules was certainly among those we can consider fast! Try to imagine what can happen to a "normal" ship in terms of speed!

So le broken decides to run away at 45 degrees with 50% sails and without bowsprit and it takes 1 minute to do that, a square rigged ship decides to run away and if it is fast it takes 45 min! Still convinced that it is not "le broquen"?

And before any scientist can argue that even the hercules is OP I answer right away that it's true, but not as much as Ie broken is anyway!

Already old stuff with today stuff.

And it is (partly) solved doing what? Nerfing sail mods. As stated a million times.

Dont worry Massimo: you got a new OP "real" ship. The Diana. And elitistic One have x accounts and plenty cash to get a good reserve: normal players no.

The kind of OP ship you like: the one you can have and majority no.

[Dibbler (Retired)]

4 hours ago, AeRoTR said:

It is a problem that 6th rate skill books give insane advantage. This ships needs to be a 5th rate for the sake of balance. 

*** Just one thing, that is even enough. Look at the grenades  6th-7th %50, assuming you have a Le Req with more than 300 crew with insane hammocks skillbooks and upgrades for the 6th-7th again which heavily favors only the Le Req as it has base 250 crew (closer one niagra with 155),

HE WILL WIN THE BOARDING ! against even 5th rates just with Grenades, as 5th rate grenade is %10 !

Lets forget hammocks (but the ship will have hammocks, a le req meta now)

Le Req vs Indef

250 crew vs 350 crew

%50 grenade vs %10 grenade

%50 musket vs %25 musket

plus slightly better stats on boarding parties and melee training, assuming same captains on each ships, Le Requin captain still has good chance against Indef.

Now take the Le Req with crew space+ hammocks. And lets say crew numbers are about same, the same skilled captains in each ship, Le Req has much more chance. The muskets and grenades will devastate the indef.

 

 

 

 Good points for sure, req should be a 5th as all reasons for herc to have rating moved apply to req also.

 Before Licinio says.... yes herc is OP to.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Dibbler

[Licinio Chiavari]

1 hour ago, Dibbler said:

 

 Good points for sure, req should be a 5th as all reasons for herc to have rating moved apply to req also.

 Before Licinio says.... yes herc is OP to.

May be you missed I wrote plenty times to move Requin to 5th rate, able to enter shallow waters but not shallow PBs, like Hercules ATM.

I do not defend OPness. I do defend balance. Also AGAINST* [edit] my personal short term interest.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari
Missed word & typo

[admin]

13 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

May be you missed I wrote plenty times to move Requin to 5th rate, able to enter shallow waters bit not shallow PBs, like Hercules ATM.

I do not defend OPness. I do defend balance. Also my personal short term interest.

There are opinions and there is data.
We read opinions very carefully but rely on data. 

In the past vocal feedback turned dozens of ships to shit boring barges because players liked different ships, did not want to adapt tactics or just wanted everyone to sail what they liked or could counter.
Players who liked line ships were asking to nerf stern camping, players who liked stern camping were asking to nerf rates. Players who died to surprise asked to nerf surprise, people who did not have santa cecilia asked to nerf santa cecilia. 

So we will repeat. 
We only rely on data. Data does tell that those are strong ships but there is no evidence they are overpowered. Data shows that the overpowered state of LR and Herc is just one of the opinion. We will continue monitoring the situation. All changes will be slight and gradual. No more nerfing ships to useless states.

[Licinio Chiavari]

6 minutes ago, admin said:

 All changes will be slight and gradual. No more nerfing ships to useless states.

Thank you Sir

[Jim Beamreach]

5 minutes ago, admin said:

There are opinions and there is data.
We read opinions very carefully but rely on data. 

In the past vocal feedback turned dozens of ships to shit boring barges because players liked different ships, did not want to adapt tactics or just wanted everyone to sail what they liked or could counter.
Players who liked line ships were asking to nerf stern camping, players who liked stern camping were asking to nerf rates. Players who died to surprise asked to nerf surprise, people who did not have santa cecilia asked to nerf santa cecilia. 

So we will repeat. 
We only rely on data. Data does tell that those are strong ships but there is no evidence they are overpowered. Data shows that the overpowered state of LR and Herc is just one of the opinion. We will continue monitoring the situation. All changes will be slight and gradual. No more nerfing ships to useless states.

Im with you there. But perhaps the problemes are not the Ships by them self at all it is the way how we coud build them and stack mods on them.

If a ship can only be build by 4 typs of Wood 2 common woodtyps reachebal in every National-Zone and 2 Woodtyps there are more rare and only to get in Capturble Ports. The 2 common have the same basic stats then the two Rare woodtyps, the only difference woud be that the stacking of 2 rare Woods will imcrease the chance of the additional Trims or the chance to get a better build than 3/5. 

So every ship will be more to the basic datas with a slight variation on additional Trims. No more hiper fast Wasa or Bellona only if you put some mods on them but Permaupgrades and Shipknowledge shoud then be updated too. No more numberles stacking of Speed and Hullmods.

At least i think it woud do the Balancing a bit easyer if there where not a so wide Variation of on Ship.

So every ship gets more or less a roll in OW. 

Looking forward to the next updats to mods and Shipknowledge. 

[Busterbloodvessel]

1 hour ago, admin said:

There are opinions and there is data.
We read opinions very carefully but rely on data. 

In the past vocal feedback turned dozens of ships to shit boring barges because players liked different ships, did not want to adapt tactics or just wanted everyone to sail what they liked or could counter.
Players who liked line ships were asking to nerf stern camping, players who liked stern camping were asking to nerf rates. Players who died to surprise asked to nerf surprise, people who did not have santa cecilia asked to nerf santa cecilia. 

So we will repeat. 
We only rely on data. Data does tell that those are strong ships but there is no evidence they are overpowered. Data shows that the overpowered state of LR and Herc is just one of the opinion. We will continue monitoring the situation. All changes will be slight and gradual. No more nerfing ships to useless states.

Lets see the up to date data pls? The last set I saw told the opposite of what was being claimed.

 

Buster (Xb*llocks)

[Bluetooth]

12 hours ago, Intrepido said:

There are several issues with Le Requin:

-It is hard to slow it down due to something weird with hitboxes of masts and sails.

-No effect when it lose the bowsprit, contrary to the other shallow ships where the negative effect can cost you the battle.

-The mods and skilbooks that allow it to crew as much as an indefatigable.

Sail damage works fine. Slows down fine now since patch.

Bowsprit  has no real life effect, unlike square riggers.

The crew figures based on historical examples.

BR is now huge.

Crew die easily.

Hull damages easily.

Any problem now is super LO builds (which I hate) with stacked mods which dev's are now working on but this effects all ships.

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Crow

[Bluetooth]

8 hours ago, Leavon said:

Remove this game breaking ship.

Thanks for your input. 

[Bluetooth]

5 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

And before any scientist can argue that even the hercules is OP I answer right away that it's true, but not as much as Ie broken is anyway!

Oh dear........

So one OP DLC ship is OK, because you like it. And one is not because you don't. Just as I thought. 🙄🙄🙄. Wants Cake and wants to eat it........

4 hours ago, admin said:

There are opinions and there is data.
We read opinions very carefully but rely on data. 

In the past vocal feedback turned dozens of ships to shit boring barges because players liked different ships, did not want to adapt tactics or just wanted everyone to sail what they liked or could counter.
Players who liked line ships were asking to nerf stern camping, players who liked stern camping were asking to nerf rates. Players who died to surprise asked to nerf surprise, people who did not have santa cecilia asked to nerf santa cecilia. 

So we will repeat. 
We only rely on data. Data does tell that those are strong ships but there is no evidence they are overpowered. Data shows that the overpowered state of LR and Herc is just one of the opinion. We will continue monitoring the situation. All changes will be slight and gradual. No more nerfing ships to useless states.

@admin is right. Rely on data not player preference and irrational bias.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Crow