Le Requin Testing and Feedback

[Guest]

1 minute ago, admin said:

there wont be tears
as the ship stats are the same and it is the same hercules (with slight reduction of the wind power at 180)

i assume pvp marks will be given thereafter so it will be worth killing them?

[King of Crowns]

6 minutes ago, admin said:

there wont be tears
as the ship stats are the same and it is the same hercules (with slight reduction of the wind power at 180)

at the price of 220 they will not be taken into port battles any more. or at no where near as much. could we also get a buff the pvp marks granted for the killing one of these little rodent ships? 5 pvp marks for catching a 14+knt ship is a bit of a joke don't you think? its a 5th rate and therefore should grant 10 or so pvp marks. 5 is hardly worth loading the guns for. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by King of Crowns

[Licinio Chiavari]

4 hours ago, King of Crowns said:

at the price of 220 they will not be taken into port battles any more. or at no where near as much. could we also get a buff the pvp marks granted for the killing one of these little rodent ships? 5 pvp marks for catching a 14+knt ship is a bit of a joke don't you think? its a 5th rate and therefore should grant 10 or so pvp marks. 5 is hardly worth loading the guns for. 

Honestly all pvp mark rewards has to be updated. Till yesterday we had trader brigs worth as a Requin (?) and trader LGV well more (8v5 - !?!?) than an Hercules.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari

[z4ys]

4 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

-No effect when it lose the bowsprit, contrary to the other shallow ships where the negative effect can cost you the battle.

 

Other ships have jib sails conected to the bowsprit

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

The mods and skilbooks that allow it to crew as much as an indefatigable.

What do the mods and skillbooks do to the indefatigable ?

[z4ys]

Just now, Hethwill the Harmless said:

What do the mods and skillbooks do to the indefatigable ?

shhh its not worth to equip them on that ship and you cant fit the hammock perm on it

[Hethwill]

1 minute ago, z4ys said:

shhh its not worth to equip them on that ship and you cant fit the hammock perm on it

Talking generic mods that fit.... oh c'mon...stop nitpicking

[z4ys]

4 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Talking generic mods that fit.... oh c'mon...stop nitpicking

and we dont want to start a discussion that 7th-6th rate boarding knowledge is the strongest 😉

Edited August 29, 2018 by z4ys

[Sir Texas Sir]

9 minutes ago, z4ys said:

and we dont want to start a discussion that 7th-6th rate boarding knowledge is the strongest 😉

This is  by many keep saying to only change the BR and make it a 5th rate.  It’s stats aren’t bad it’s just nothing in shallows can compare.  Niagara is the next in line and it has 100 less crew.  Totally creeped out a base Requin will still eat it alive in board actions as it can add board mods instead of crew.

[Aquillas]

I use to record all my fights, for making afterwards analysis of what I did or did not do, errors or good reactions, for improving and upgrading skill.

I share this record, not because this fight was particularly good or got high results, but because it highlights some interesting feedback, in a quite short time.

Analysis is below the video

 

Time	Remark
1:40	In spite of exchanging broadsides with the entire British fleet including a Bellona, the two xebecs went out with little damages that can be easily repaired.
2:33	Damaging Don Juan Dimarco with my small 8 carronades (18pd). Short range and aiming high on the hull.
2:40	My Brig was Bermuda Cedar/ Mahogany / Cotton sails (14+ knots). She cannot outrun a xebec downwind. A legend is falling here. This is probably due to the Xebec mods (the pirate rig refit seems to add performance upwind and downwind). Almost all xebecs are fit with it.
3:31	The only moment I saw one of these Xebec captains using manual sailing. Usually, xebec captains don’t do it anymore, the high ship performance allow most xebec captains to simply go automatic sails all along fights, like here. Defender captains from Xebecs who would do that in a square rigged ship are dead.
3:57	A full broadside from the Bellona to the xebec made almost no damage. We will see later why.
4:16	I aimed above the xebec hull to make damages.
5:16	The Xebec takes another ineffective broadside from the Bello (he probably aimed the hull instead of above). Again, this xebec is outrunning my Brig even downwind…
6:20	Aiming quite high, again, to be effective.
6:46	Broadside from Dutchzzz to Ignatius Greybeard. From front, it is possible to hit directly the structure.
8:03	They can now evade upwind easily. The fight is finished, as usual. Either xebecs win, or they escape. Even using auto sailing only (skill is useless for this ship), they can break engagements at will, and cannot be rejoined, neither upwind or downwind.
The end	I got rewarded of a fistful of xp for that fight. Who told that PvP is the core in-game activity?

Hope this helps!

Edited August 29, 2018 by Aquillas

[vazco]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Le requin BR has been increased to 160 (almost 2 rattlesnakes heavy)
Several 6th rates got their speed stats adjusted to be faster than L.R. at certain angles. 
We will continue monitoring the stats and adjusting the performance to provide real alternatives to L.R. 
 

It's a good change. There's one issue remaining - Requins can attack noobs in reinforcement zones without consequences, as reinforcements can't really hit them, or keep up to them.

It's not the skill of a player. I was attacked in a reinforcement zone once in Indiaman by two Requins and a Herc. 3 reinforcement ships did no damage, even though we were sailing between them for 10 minutes. I had the opposite situation a few times as well. Reinforcement zone doesn't really work as a deterrent for those ships.

[z4ys]

45 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

Time	Remark
1:40	In spite of exchanging broadsides with the entire British fleet including a Bellona, the two xebecs went out with little damages that can be easily repaired.
2:33	Damaging Don Juan Dimarco to  with my small 8 carronades (18lbs). Short range and aiming high on the hull.
2:40	My Brig was Bermuda Cedar/ Mahogany / Cotton sails (14+ knots). She cannot outrun a xebec downwind. A legend is falling here. This is probably due to the Xebec mods (the pirate rig refit seems to add performance upwind and downwind). Almost all xebecs are fit with it.
3:31	The only moment I saw one of these Xebec captains using manual sailing. Usually, xebec captains don’t do it anymore, the high ship performance allow most xebec captains to simply go automatic sails all along fights, like here. Defender captains from Xebecs who would do that way are dead.
3:57	A full broadside from the Bellona to the xebec made almost no damage. We will see later why.
4:16	I aimed above the xebec hull to make damages.
5:16	The Xebec takes another ineffective broadside from the Bello (he probably aimed the hull instead of above). Again, this xebec is outrunning my Brig even downwind…
6:20	Aiming quite high, again, to be effective.
6:46	Broadside from Dutchzzz to Ignatius Greybeard. From front, it is possible to hit directly the structure.
8:03	They can now evade upwind easily. The fight is finished, as usual. Either xebecs win, or they escape. Even using auto sailing only (skill is useless for this ship), they can break engagements at will, and cannot be rejoined, neither upwind or downwind.
The end	I got rewarded of a fistful of xp for that fight. Who told that PvP is the core in-game activity?

Hope this helps!

to 2:40 you are outrunning him but not at 135° you are outrunning him at 180°. Like you do at 3:26. Furthermore you are using rudder all the time which is slowing you down 😉

to 3:53 sorry to say but most shots went over the ship as you can see by the splashes or bounced due to our all loved skillfull angle game. Bellona should have waited for better angle to shoot

4:16 as you can see (guess you are using med) the cannonball drop kicks in so you have to aim higher. Before it gets smokey you see that the balls hit the side (no hitbox issue as you may want to say)

5:16 Bellona aimed to high you see the ball splashes on the left side of the requin. And actual you are closing in. but you use rudder to much. Watch your speed by doing it. it drops from 13kn to 11.

8:03 when you lose weathergage in a square rigger any schooner or le requin can slip away. The art of fighting those ships in sqaure riggern is to deny the escape upwind. that was executed poorly

Edited August 29, 2018 by z4ys

[z4ys]

15 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

And Requin has rigging connected to bowsprit

do you know what the line on the bow controlls?

Because the xebec we have ingame does not have that jib

Edited August 29, 2018 by z4ys

[Licinio Chiavari]

15 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

And Requin has rigging connected to bowsprit

Indeed I proposed 0% sail damage for requin losing bowsprint (losing foremast would be a bit too punishing) still going rigging shock.

I think a reasonable mid way solution.

[Tom Farseer]

1 minute ago, z4ys said:

16 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

And Requin has rigging connected to bowsprit

do you know what the line on the bow controlls?

I am quite sure that line is a stay and not running rigging. As was discussed in many posts before those lines (stays) were integral to the stability of all masts. Creating a chain of tensions from the bow of the ship all the way to the stern, securing the masts in staying upright. Much like the shrouds, only on a perpendicular axis.

[Tom Farseer]

The whole dismasting thing is modeled incompletely in the game (probably for simplicity and resource economy). IN reality, a mast is way easier to kill by destoying the standing rigging instead of trying to damage the wood itself. Kill a few shrouds and a stay and the windforce and our dear beloved gravity will do the rest.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Tom Farseer

[z4ys]

2 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Indeed I proposed 0% sail damage for requin losing bowsprint (losing foremast would be a bit too punishing) still going rigging shock.

I think a reasonable mid way solution.

the fore mast is not hold by the bowsprit.

[Licinio Chiavari]

24 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

I use to record all my fights, for making afterwards analysis of what I did or did not do, errors or good reactions, for improving and upgrading skill.

I share this record, not because this fight was particularly good or got high results, but because it highlights some interesting feedback, in a quite short time.

Analysis is below the video

 

Time	Remark
1:40	In spite of exchanging broadsides with the entire British fleet including a Bellona, the two xebecs went out with little damages that can be easily repaired.
2:33	Damaging Don Juan Dimarco with my small 8 carronades (18pd). Short range and aiming high on the hull.
2:40	My Brig was Bermuda Cedar/ Mahogany / Cotton sails (14+ knots). She cannot outrun a xebec downwind. A legend is falling here. This is probably due to the Xebec mods (the pirate rig refit seems to add performance upwind and downwind). Almost all xebecs are fit with it.
3:31	The only moment I saw one of these Xebec captains using manual sailing. Usually, xebec captains don’t do it anymore, the high ship performance allow most xebec captains to simply go automatic sails all along fights, like here. Defender captains from Xebecs who would do that in a square rigged ship are dead.
3:57	A full broadside from the Bellona to the xebec made almost no damage. We will see later why.
4:16	I aimed above the xebec hull to make damages.
5:16	The Xebec takes another ineffective broadside from the Bello (he probably aimed the hull instead of above). Again, this xebec is outrunning my Brig even downwind…
6:20	Aiming quite high, again, to be effective.
6:46	Broadside from Dutchzzz to Ignatius Greybeard. From front, it is possible to hit directly the structure.
8:03	They can now evade upwind easily. The fight is finished, as usual. Either xebecs win, or they escape. Even using auto sailing only (skill is useless for this ship), they can break engagements at will, and cannot be rejoined, neither upwind or downwind.
The end	I got rewarded of a fistful of xp for that fight. Who told that PvP is the core in-game activity?

Hope this helps!

 

I have the outmost respect for unrated sailing captains.

Still the highlights pointed above are misleading.

1. I fear more Reinf. AI Merc. than majority of british captains on Bellona: big aiming issue.
I do agree hitting a requin is difficult, still if, with some practice, I can dismantle at range a requin using a requin... it's a gunnery practice issue.

2. requin get a lot of structure damage well before losing sides - true. And another of ship's weakenesses.

3. any fore-aft will "byebye" any square rigged upon being upwind.

4. as I pointed out with William Death using Privateer example: Pirate rig refit is a "full bonus" on Requin (and almost the same on Privateer): so yes.
Giving requin higher sail force on ALL sails she's faster downwind too. With Elite Pirate a requin runs speed capped down to 130° (so almost broadreach).
Still: is it a ship issue or a mod one? I say the latter.

[Licinio Chiavari]

2 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

The whole dismasting thing is modeled incompletely in the game (probably for simplicity and resource economy). IN reality, a mast is way easier to kill by destoying the standing rigging instead of trying to damage the wood itself. Kill a few shrouds and a stay and the windforce and our dear beloved gravity will do the rest.

Indeed mast sniping is total crap.

I personally repeatly suggest to double masts HP to make not viable mast hitting... but making mast total HP function of % sail damage. So plenty damage to sail (so to running ropes) will make masts unstable (and easier to lose) as in reality.

[Tom Farseer]

9 minutes ago, z4ys said:

the fore mast is not hold by the bowsprit.

Yes and no... It is set on the keel and secured on the ships transverse axis by shrouds and backstays, and stabilised on the longitudinal axis by the stays. Killling the bowsprit, therefore breaking up the flow of tension from fore to aft will greatly affect the stability of all masts of the ship. It may not outright bring the foremast to fall but it will significantly destabilise it.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Tom Farseer
pictures to help make my point clear

[Tom Farseer]

1 minute ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

I personally repeatly suggest to double masts HP to make not viable mast hitting... but making mast total HP function of % sail damage. So plenty damage to sail (so to running ropes) will make masts unstable (and easier to lose) as in reality.

I would concurr on the condition of saying that it is damage to standing rigging, not running ropes. Running rigging cannot (or rather must not) have any effect on the riggings stability as it is, well, running. You can just throw loose everything. Would be kinda crappily constructed if that could affect integrity of the masts...

[Licinio Chiavari]

29 minutes ago, vazco said:

It's a good change. There's one issue remaining - Requins can attack noobs in reinforcement zones without consequences, as reinforcements can't really hit them, or keep up to them.

It's not the skill of a player. I was attacked in a reinforcement zone once in Indiaman by two Requins and a Herc. 3 reinforcement ships did no damage, even though we were sailing between them for 10 minutes. I had the opposite situation a few times as well. Reinforcement zone doesn't really work as a deterrent for those ships.

a) reinforcement area are anyway crappy.

b) reinforcement AIs are heavily buffed and totally dangerous on a Requin. I think that the Requin has always less than 2500HP. Usually in 2200 range: she lose side pretty fast against well aimed broadsides. 
I assure you. My mates and I lost more ships to AIs than to players especially if the prey runs downwind (as he should) and so AIs are perfectly able to stay close. We ended up very often firing a chain broadside and/or ram bowsprint of AI merc/brig to get rid of them. Because they can easily sink a silly Requin: they hit hard, reload fast... and aim decently.

c) as a note, running after a Renomee on Herc+REquin both over 15 kts... the AI frig+brig NEVER lose ground on us.

[Licinio Chiavari]

1 minute ago, Tom Farseer said:

I would concurr on the condition of saying that it is damage to standing rigging, not running ropes. Running rigging cannot (or rather must not) have any effect on the riggings stability as it is, well, running. You can just throw loose everything. Would be kinda crappily constructed if that could affect integrity of the masts...

sorry... I meant "standing" (ropes keeping mast up) not running. Always a problem translating nautical terms from another language (they share no bounds :).

So I meant that heavy sail damage should make masts easier to fall. 

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

sorry... I meant "standing" (ropes keeping mast up) not running. Always a problem translating nautical terms from another language (they share no bounds :).

So I meant that heavy sail damage should make masts easier to fall. 

Not sail damage, Licinio.  Damage to the standing rigging.  Sail damage is nothing.

[Licinio Chiavari]

8 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

Yes and no... It is set on the keel and secured on the ships transverse axis by shrouds and backstays, and stabilised on the longitudinal axis by the stays. Killling the bowsprit, therefore breaking up the flow of tension from fore to aft will greatly affect the stability of all masts of the ship. It may not outright bring the foremast to fall but it will significantly destabilise it.

Thank you: good to get better grasp on english nautical terms.