Le Requin Testing and Feedback

[Lovec1990]

4 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

"can" is a very very low bar

can is that on paper ships stats are close or better than requins they show they can win but else is players skill,luck his mistakes and enemys mistakes requin can be beten by non dlc ship, but if players do not try or lose hope before they start fighting requin battle is over and here you cannot cry requin is p2w

[Kifli]

1 hour ago, z4ys said:

to be p2w it has to apply to all circumstances not just one. if you have the requin you have to win always otherwise it cant be p2w

that is biggest nonsense I ever heard !  p2w means getting something for money that you can't get just by playing and it is actually better that anything you can get for free. 

 

an le requin wins every time if it runs and there is no other le requin to chase it

[Bluetooth]

For those who dont actually sail the Xebec but none less are 'forum experts" on it, here, is a small summary of how she is today after having sailed it for two weeks.

Sexy. 

Thanks for reading.

 

 

 

[St0nkingByte]

3 hours ago, Lovec1990 said:

this is a lie simple quite a few 6th rates can beat requin but they wont because players do not even try 

I always assume all forum conversations comparing ships are about [ELITE SHIP CAPTAIN WHO NEVER MAKES MISTAKES] vs. another [ELITE SHIP CAPTAIN WHO NEVER MAKES MISTAKES] and not about the infinite realm of possibility. Personally, I have sunk a Le Requin with a store bought Snow and it didn't even seem all that hard to me but at that point I hadn't read any of these threads that would have told me how impossible it would be.

[Bluetooth]

2 hours ago, Lovec1990 said:

can is that on paper ships stats are close or better than requins they show they can win but else is players skill,luck his mistakes and enemys mistakes requin can be beten by non dlc ship, but if players do not try or lose hope before they start fighting requin battle is over and here you cannot cry requin is p2w

Well said.

I have found my best battles have been around post captain level players. They fight hard, never give, seldom bitch and often escape or damage me so I try to escape.

Rear admiral rank players in better ships get all salty in battle chat and fight poorly and often try to surrender crying p2w and claiming how unfair life is etc while sailing super modded ships lol.

They do make me smile with their insults though. 😁

 

[Bluetooth]

5 minutes ago, St0nkingByte said:

I always assume all forum conversations comparing ships are about [ELITE SHIP CAPTAIN WHO NEVER MAKES MISTAKES] vs. another [ELITE SHIP CAPTAIN WHO NEVER MAKES MISTAKES] and not about the infinite realm of possibility. Personally, I have sunk a Le Requin with a store bought Snow and it didn't even seem all that hard to me but at that point I hadn't read any of these threads that would have told me how impossible it would be.

Lol 😂😂😂

That is so right. The dlc herc/requin hysteria is quite ridiculous.

 

 

[Cecil Selous]

5 hours ago, William Death said:

Think about losing the power from that 1 big sail and how that would affect your ship, especially in combat.

One weak spot or a hidden knot in the wooden yard and it shatters while wearing ship, dousing the deck with a huge piece of heavy, flammable canvas and hundreds of yards of rope (my understanding is that in square rigged ships, the yards could be chained before battle, preventing the sails from falling to the deck even if the yard shatters; I don't think this would be practical with a lateen rig, but I may be wrong there...wish I could remember where I read that and if it was a reliable source...).

If it is just about the chaining of the yards I coincidentally just read The Fortune of War by O'Brian. It is mentioned that the Shannon chains the yards before fighting the Chesapeake to prevent them from falling. I would like to call O'Brian a reliable source given his detailed research.

[William Death]

1 hour ago, Cecil Selous said:

If it is just about the chaining of the yards I coincidentally just read The Fortune of War by O'Brian. It is mentioned that the Shannon chains the yards before fighting the Chesapeake to prevent them from falling. I would like to call O'Brian a reliable source given his detailed research.

AHA!

Yes that was indeed where I read it. Great series, I'm about halfway through, but I've been lazily reading out of order (*gasp*) over the past few years. I also agree, given the research he did, I think its pretty accurate as a source.

I mean, logically, it makes sense: use some chain to prevent your yards from falling, even if they shatter. I doubt you'd get much power from a sail held up only by chains and splintered wood, but at least it wouldn't be blocking your guns or decks and may even still give a little sailing power. But I'm not sure if that would be possible to do with the Xebec's long yard and short mast...maybe though. Sailors are a creative lot.

[Palatinose]

10 hours ago, z4ys said:

I am just against those double standards . Nerf sailforce on requin but let my bellona fly 15.5kn with spanish rig

Point is that the Bello still has it's negative side with spanish rig. Requin hasn't with pirate rig. 

Nontheless the rig mods are a pain. Just too stronk (remember we had them before and they were no meta). I guess if we found a way to balance them between being completely useless and totally over powered, we achieved a lot.

[Lovec1990]

6 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

Point is that the Bello still has it's negative side with spanish rig. Requin hasn't with pirate rig. 

Nontheless the rig mods are a pain. Just too stronk (remember we had them before and they were no meta). I guess if we found a way to balance them between being completely useless and totally over powered, we achieved a lot.

perhaps but this is rig mod issue not requin issue

[Thonys]

22 hours ago, admin said:

Any theories why this transformation happened? What was the negative of the pure lateen rig promoting the additions of square sails?

what i do know is that the Dutch navy was one of the last navy s who used the lateen on their big ships (look at latest big ship  7 provinces)

but it was more a stubborn attitude from the contractors (conservative attitude)who had a saying in the sail plan than it was used at that time of knowledge about the sail plan for the big ships.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Thonys

[William Death]

4 hours ago, Lovec1990 said:

perhaps but this is rig mod issue not requin issue

Well Elite Pirate Rig refit isn't an issue on Prince, Lynx, Privateer, Cutter, Niagara, Surprise.... because realistic negatives apply to those ships when using it to sail downwind. The opposite happens to Le Requin: use Elite Pirate Rig to make your sailing profile better at nearly all angles.

Granted, the sail force mods are a bit strong overall and should be balanced better, but it can't be ignored that one ship has pure benefits from running an Elite Pirate Rig and pretty much no negatives.

So...no. That is both a Requin issue, and a mod issue. But the main issue in this case is the way the Requin behaves with those mods installed. Either fix the mod so that there are negatives applied to Requin when using pirate rig downwind, or remove the ability to equip that mod on that ship.

[Hethwill]

Just now, William Death said:

Well Elite Pirate Rig refit isn't an issue on Prince, Lynx, Privateer,

Well... I beg to disagree but I won't say a thing... don't want my babies to be touched... everything is fine...everything ! Don't you dare touch any mods, you hear ?

 

[vazco]

On 8/20/2018 at 2:21 PM, Banished Privateer said:

I don't understand why downwind Xebec doesn't mix the sail placement with left-right-left position for example, because the heel makes the ship performance and feeling terrible. I believe that 1 sail shifted on other side downwind would counter some of the heel and propulsion power should be very similar downwind.

IRL you don't want to do this, as:

1. you don't have heel going downwind anyway
2. it's less efficient than going with broad reach, as you have only pushing force, without pulling force of low pressure areas
3. once wind shifts, you risk damaging your rigging, your crew, and in extreme situations taking on water

[vazco]

On 8/20/2018 at 3:39 PM, Liq said:

IMHO, two little tweaks would make the general game experience with the current DLC spam more bearable.

• Dont allow DLC ships in PBs
• Extend redeem cooldown to approx 72 or 96 hours

Longer cooldown with dlcs not being allowed in PB wont lead to pbs only being winnable with dlcs. 

Carribbean is too crowded with them at the moment. Diversity is in danger. :0)

Oh, that's just the common sense talking. We shouldn't be listening to such reasonable remarks  

Let's introduce a "false flag" DLC instead. It would allow you to pose as NPC on the open world. A second one, "flying dutchman", could allow you to sail invisible on OW until you're very close to enemy ship. Then you could just jump on him from below the waves. Now, that's fun and balanced!  

Edited August 21, 2018 by vazco

[vazco]

39 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Well, Requin clearly heels almost at every angle... and the heel is excesive and hard to control without big speed loss (even battle sails help just a little, usually you need to turn all yards and lose the force).

It should actually heel less due to lanteen sails having center of sail lower than square sails. 

[Hethwill]

Winged out, lateens to both sides, she would go more bow deep into water ?  If correct this would provoke more pressure and reduce speed ? Thanks.

[Angelo Morosini]

Please can we make Xebec/Sciabecco much less thickness, they are a very thin ships. I saw good model group in Trentino who have great ones to see with thin side's when looking at frigates also.

Requin is bad for game as ship is, only used by ganking game ruiners. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by Angelo Morosini

[Jack Jones]

35 minutes ago, Angelo Morosini said:

Please can we make Xebec/Sciabecco much less thickness, they are a very thin ships. I saw good model group in Trentino who have great ones to see with thin side's when looking at frigates also.

Requin is bad for game as ship is, only used by ganking game ruiners. 

I have no trouble fighting the Requin.

The problem I see is that many of my fellow players don't have any anti boarding measures even though boarding is part of the game.

Many who have listened to the rubbish on here are also scared to fight them.

If your in any kind of frigate (5th rate) then:

Go for them, keep your speed up, manual sail to stop them turning you, fire ball at the masts, use Double charge if you have it,  fire single shot one at a time at the hull, seeing if you damage it because it glances balls well, when you damage it fire all.

Turn off guns that are not needed, use DD etc etc.

Let them come close to board you, if your smart and manual sail against them they cant turn you, hit his hull if he tries hugging. with DD you can slow that he thinks he is going to board you, keep hitting his hull. speed ones are relatively weak. His hull is easy to hit with well placed shots.

If he gets to close behind you, reverse turning to fire as you do.

The ship is really crap down wind now and cant keep up with you if you can go 12knts or so down wind, I have out run then in lgvs, Indiamen and even traders brigs.

The ship is crap at turning and stopping, so if you have DD perk, don't be afraid to turn through the wind for firing opportunities.

Sail smart, stay up wind and manage your repairs.

Its the mod stacking that makes them greater than their sum, but that's true for all ships. I would rather fight a Requin than many other Uber speed ships in the game.

Stop listening to this myth that the ship is unsinkable and go sink it.

 

[MassimoSud]

This is what happened now: I m sailing in a wasa, chain a requin up to 52%, I break his bowsprit too. The requin can not repair, but leads to sail against the wind and in 30 seconds goes away undisturbed. Dear @admin do you think this is normal? Do you believe that in reality a ship in these conditions has any chance of escape? Do you believe that a wasa in the same condition can escape a requin by navigating downwind (the answer is not clearly)! The requin was sailed by yordi a good player who has the good taste of being silent when silence is better than any word! The same can not be said of @Licinio Chiavari (in the same battle of course sailing a requin, the only ship he sails all day long). Dear @admin I hope you fix this ship that is completely broken! Otherwise I will have to think that for a few pennies you are destroying your game!

I thank you for the answer.

[z4ys]

Can not catch  a snow upwind and at 50% with 100% sails in a rattle. Sadly same issue don't forget ships with 50% still turn to good:(

[Sir Texas Sir]

6 hours ago, Flash Jack said:

I have no trouble fighting the Requin.

Stop listening to this myth that the ship is unsinkable and go sink it.

 

That all great and expect d but try that with a 6th rate.  Every thing you stated is void by the fact it has 100 more crew than any other 6th rate.  It needs to be classed as a 5th rate and BR raised along with the Herc.  

3 hours ago, z4ys said:

Can not catch  a snow upwind and at 50% with 100% sails in a rattle. Sadly same issue don't forget ships with 50% still turn to good:(

I seen this a few times getting ships down to 50% sails that still out run other ships.  If your at 50% you should never be going more than 50% max speed.  I thought k it’s the force mods that do it but haven’t caught enough of these guys to figure out the connection.  

[Licinio Chiavari]

4 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

This is what happened now: I m sailing in a wasa, chain a requin up to 52%, I break his bowsprit too. The requin can not repair, but leads to sail against the wind and in 30 seconds goes away undisturbed. Dear @admin do you think this is normal? Do you believe that in reality a ship in these conditions has any chance of escape? Do you believe that a wasa in the same condition can escape a requin by navigating downwind (the answer is not clearly)! The requin was sailed by yordi a good player who has the good taste of being silent when silence is better than any word! The same can not be said of @Licinio Chiavari (in the same battle of course sailing a requin, the only ship he sails all day long). Dear @admin I hope you fix this ship that is completely broken! Otherwise I will have to think that for a few pennies you are destroying your game!

I thank you for the answer.

1. Let me know if you can catch a Pirate Rig refitted Privateer upwind of you at 52% sails (and Yordi's requin had Elite one) going close haul while you use a Ship of the Line.

2. Let me know if you consider reasonable using Ship of the Line to hunt unrated privateering ships.

3. Let me know if an experienced player (like you), sailing on a Ship of the Line, would ever have to RUN from an UNRATED SHIP.

4. Yordi was silent because I was talking in english in "ALL" channel for sake of not italians in battle. On TS he was laughing to be honest.

 

Then. Let me know if you consider fair Bellonas going 14.5-15.5 and at the same time 12ish kts Constitutions (just an example... obviously not the sole).
AS STATED INFINITE TIMES it's mainly a MODS issue. Without force mods, Requin would be only a bigger prince. Period.

As I repeated N-times, fighting a Requin is pretty easy being experienced OR having a good grasp about how she behaves, her strenghts and her weaknesses (that are not a few). Trying to fight her not knowing her, is very difficult, and can be surely totally instant killing for any not experienced player.

BUT the same goes with the ship you sail with your experience against a casual on a low fitted ship.

A Requin is simply a very fast boarder. She'll aim to board you, or get you ready to be boarded, well before even seeing you. So you already know what a Requin captain will do.

As repeated N-times too: do you fear a Requin (and in general a boarder)? get prepared to not being boarded AND be prepared to make a boarding a PAIN for the attacker.

I do not think anything bans you using Determined Defender + Barricade + Boarding Axes...  Bording got rebalanced totally in favour of defender. Think about only to one year ago. Boarding then was a breeze.
Ah... right: you have to give up some more shiny book in the slots. Do you want to have a laser guided long guns (AIMING to masts... LOL), reload faster, repair more often and more HP? Well: You know that you'll be dead if boarded. It's a choise.

Last note: may be British captains need a good amount of boarding training... because I still see EVERY DAY people not disengaging having plenty time to, I see people counterattacking without boarding mods, nor marines and with less crew, I see people using Muskets and Grenades while defending with less crew. Not to say, obviously, I see less than 1/10th of my preys being boarding prepared: do you need to get a shout in chat "I WILL BOARD YOU SOON"?

Didnt you say (and not you only, obviously) that boarding game is too easy? so... Why in the hell so few know how to handle one? Putting aside... NOT BEING BOARDED FIRST.

 

After the above noted adequate quantity of trolling: when you'll ask to NERF TO DEATH all FORCE MODS, NERF ALL MODS, NERF ALL BOOKS (the most precious in particular AND I AM REPEATING THAT EVEN HAVING FINALLY GOT AoSH BY 10 DAYS), NERF some OP ships (you know which ones), NERF TO DEATH MastSniping, making impossible to hull-hug... I'll glady call for nerfing the Requin - but, without Pirate Rig as it is now and moved to 5th rates... SHE WILL NOT NEED EITHER. 

Until then I'll be pleased to keep farming daily the Royal Navy (and not only) in a ship of my choise. Like the Requin.

 

Sidenote: do you know why I am a boarder (and I was like 2 years ago)?

Because I had not plenty nice stuff (I got AoSH by like 10 days... thanks to Royal Navy). And I hunted alone (as I still usually do).
If I hunt alone I need to be not fast but the fastest.
Missing the shiny stuff, only way to make a fast ship is making her very light (I sailed a lot of fir ships).
If I am very light, I cant engage side to side anything of similar toughness and gunnery.
Moreover I hunted around Capitol (best chance to find targets)... so I have and I had not a lot of time to kill, and a boarding is the fastest way to kill a similar sized enemy.
So the only solution was being a fast boarder... and I was. Usually on Renomee, because Surprise was the "meta-ship", and I hate meta-ships.

So, if I'm chain boarding a half dozen/a dozen of british ships daily, it's due to some too expensive shiny stuff that made "fast boarder" the best solution.

The same shiny stuff YOU NEVER ASK TO BE NERFED.

 

[AeRoTR]

I find it very funny to read all the P2W hardcore defenders. 

It is a DLC ship, you PAY for it thus you have the advantage. You can not compare it to BELLONA, anyone who grinded enough can craft a bellona, anybody who grinded enough can mount spanish rig on it ( I do agree sail refits are OP). So it is not the same, crafting a BELLONA with good mods requires lots of grind, if you get your ship sink, you have to grind again etc. DLC ship is throw away.  

A privateer with pirate rig ? a privateer with 60 crew (instead of 250) 12 guns of 12 pounder carros instead of 32 pounders. I dare you guys come farm with Privateer in reinforcement zone. You can run away anytime with it, who give a crap, that is all you can do.

*** Just tell me a ship to hunt down red sail. Which we know you can not hunt down it with another red sail. Runner will fire chain, hunter will fire 2 pd. balls.

 

A P2Winners Short Guide:

1. Buy P2W red sail DLC

2. install standart pirate refit (100k) + install your already learnt boarding+speed mods

3. Go farm the noobs (when you are alone), enjoy rage boarding in your P2W 6th rate up to easly including 5th rates.

4. Form a team 2 red sail + 1 Herc = just tag anyone you please in Reinforcement Zone (can you do that in a bellona ??????!!!!!!!) Fight kill, he is a problem, just go upwind and runaway.

5. Rinse and Repeat

6. Do not forget to come to forum and defend red sail from time to time.

The biggest disappointment in NA history, a pay to win gift from developers insulting all the supporters.

[Bluetooth]

13 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

The biggest disappointment in NA history, a pay to win gift from developers insulting all the supporters