Patch 22: Patrol BR limits, Grape fix and Planking mechanics improvements

[Jim Beamreach]

To reload a Musket it woud take 30 secounds plus. Lets say 40 sec. + aiming and shooting then it woud do every Min damage to crew. 

Search for War of Rights in Youtoub there you can see some reload times. 

At all it sound interesting but i like it if a bigger ship is attacking me in my snow. 

[Capt Jubal Early]

1 minute ago, Jim Broadreach said:

To reload a Musket it woud take 30 secounds plus. Lets say 40 sec. + aiming and shooting then it woud do every Min damage to crew. 

Search for War of Rights in Youtoub there you can see some reload times. 

At all it sound interesting but i like it if a bigger ship is attacking me in my snow. 

Sharpe managed 3 out of the south essex. Also in boarding and ship defending you'd have muskets loaded with men set to shoot while others are handing new muskets up and reloading fired ones. IE null and void they'd be firing constantly.
 

 

[z4ys]

26 minutes ago, rediii said:

Isn't that effective musketfire range?

Like I said range should influence how much crew is killed but its a bit stupid for marines to wait and just start shooting at 10m right?

Its also gameplay immersion we are talking about in my oppinion.

is the gameplay broken between 10-100m?

Edited March 22, 2018 by z4ys

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, z4ys said:

is the gameplay broken between 10-100m?

yes, there are no muskets going off at that distance when there should be 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson

[Aventador]

1 hour ago, Fouchet said:

With delay in the subject, but to bring some information on the Buc poured by 3 princes, I was one of them and the Buc made big mistakes, he paid in cash.

He loses more than half of his weapons in the fight with our passes in the back and does no repair to restore them. Bad management of the wind, no attempt to board at low speed, while he has almost 3 times our crew, it is based on his DD. Demist how to say, bordered in the water or in the clouds. And many other mistakes and he's just trying to escape, here's how to lose a 2nd rank against mosquitoes.

For us, 1 is improved in PvP and 1 has learned that it is possible to do it.

Aventador, thank you for this training and try the new pacth on a big ass.

Finally, ships that are no longer invincible and that these fights become fun

Yes it was a good fight. It was my assumption that I was practically invincible and I was trying to keep you guys in battle for as long as possible to avoid you interfering further with the hostility grind. The way it has always been was that smaller ships with pea shooters would have to decrew and board a sol to take it. Whether this is a good system or not is up for debate. I'm personally not opposed to the increased penetration at closer range and 6 pounders being able to pen,but it's the rate at which they pen that I think needs tweaking.

[Aquillas]

2 hours ago, rediii said:

Isn't that effective musketfire range?

Like I said range should influence how much crew is killed but its a bit stupid for marines to wait and just start shooting at 10m right?

Its also gameplay immersion we are talking about in my oppinion.

I tried to get data about musket precision,. The French musket "Charleville", Mle 1777 was one of the most precise one (the British rifle was so imprecise that it had no sight...)

Data can be found here, in French (the corresponding English page lacks of most of interesting data, Google translator can be your friend if necessary).

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusil_Charleville.

I translated the table of precision here: Mle-1777.xlsx.

These data should be used with care:

• a man is not 2m x 2m sized
• a man is a moving target, partially hidden by the ship sides
• ship is not a stable aiming platform...

In my opinion, at more than 50 metres, musket fire is just useless noise and ambiant sound: marines have a limited number of ammunitions, they would not use it at long range!

Edited March 22, 2018 by Eleazar de Damas

[Jesper Dahl]

Despite the level of fix we got to the "hull hit but no structure damage" bug it still exist. Just with lower calibers.

[admin]

9 minutes ago, Jesper Dahl said:

Despite the level of fix we got to the "hull hit but no structure damage" bug it still exist. Just with lower calibers.

its not a bug
structure is not an bar/object its a composition of hull parts, planking and frame - it has integrity and can withstand penetrations. So 4lb can hit hull but if it does not have enough remaining penetration it wont damage overall structure.

[HachiRoku]

1 hour ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

I tried to get data about musket precision,. The French musket "Charleville", Mle 1777 was one of the most precise one (the British rifle was so imprecise that it had no sight...)

Data can be found here, in French (the corresponding English page lacks of most of interesting data, Google translator can be your friend if necessary).

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusil_Charleville.

I translated the table of precision here: Mle-1777.xlsx.

These data should be used with care:

• a man is not 2m x 2m sized
• a man is a moving target, partially hidden by the ship sides
• ship is not a stable aiming platform...

In my opinion, at more than 50 metres, musket fire is just useless noise and ambiant sound: marines have a limited number of ammunitions, they would not use it at long range!

Are you telling me 360 quick scoping was not possible during age of sail??? Yeah right.... Get you facts straight........

[Navalus Magnus]

3 hours ago, rediii said:

I allways thought musketfire from ship is awesome in total war and holdfast

Even if it is barely noticeable and has no impact on gameplay it should be added for immersion purpose in my oppion

@admin and @Ink

But couldn't you implement musketfire, slowly reducing the crew of ships in range?

Combined with the above suggested visualisation it would be awsome!

[Jesper Dahl]

1 hour ago, admin said:

its not a bug
structure is not an bar/object its a composition of hull parts, planking and frame - it has integrity and can withstand penetrations. So 4lb can hit hull but if it does not have enough remaining penetration it wont damage overall structure.

Like when first rates couldn´t do structure damage with 9 and 12pd on a 5th rate at 100m?

And may still not be able to, will test that one out.Tested and still no damage to structure.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Jesper Dahl
Edit

[GrubbyZebra]

I am not a great PvPer by any stretch, but I consider myself darn good with a prince. 

Even on best point for a buc, unless it is a speed build, even a T/WO prince will be able to keep up with it. With 3, you can pretty much guaranteed at least one will be able to stay alongside during maneuvers. It would take a coordinated and skilled set of Prince captains to pull it off, but it is feasible that good players sailing the Princes could sink an average player in a Buc.

That said, there isn't a lot of room for error on the part of the Princes, so the likelihood of this being the outcome is rather small (1 Prince misjudges a turn and gets a broadside from the buc =game over). I don't think we should be worrying about designing the game for the exceptions (which this seems to be), they are what makes the game fun to play.

Keep in mind that as far as 6th rates go, the prince is fairly weak in terms of both armour and broadside weight. It relies heavily on maneuvering and speed, especially upwind, to control the battle. Broadside to broadside any of the other 6th rates will likely kill it (except the regular and trader's brig, if you lose to one of those, git gud). The Snow and HR are especially difficult opponents (the former due to primarily to better turn radius, the latter due to better armour and firepower). Against bigger ships, the Prince starts getting outclassed once you get above a Surprise (it is a great cerb and surprise killer in the right hands), mainly due to the reduced margin of error downwind (slow speed, little armour in a square riggers best points of sail), but once you start getting big enough (slow 3rd's and up), the prince can keep up and as long as they can avoid boarding, is able to pull off some incredible feats.

[Aquillas]

1 hour ago, HachiRoku said:

Are you telling me 360 quick scoping was not possible during age of sail??? Yeah right.... Get you facts straight........

My purpose was just to give data that I found in French only and to translate interesting parts. Obviously marines can move and fire all around the ship.

[Corona Lisa]

6 hours ago, rediii said:

Crew in boarding, muskets available, deckdifference should play a role to constant crewdamage against someone in 100m distance away getting more effective the closer he is.

Are big ships not strong enough already? No reason to buff them more imo.

[Landsman]

54 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Are big ships not strong enough already? No reason to buff them more imo.

I enjoy sailing smaller ships more than bigger but unrated ships sitting below the guns or stern of a SOL to avoid its guns was fine from a gameplay perspective when not every hello kittying 4pd gun could penetrate SOL armor. Quite frankly I think it could be fairly balanced and realistic. I think its really nice when a bunch of tiny tit ships outplay some idiot in a SOL but you gotta draw the line somewhere - in terms of realism aswell as gameplay. 6-7 rates are almost free while SOLs actually cost a bit... it reminds me of the basic cutter spam abuse where you could only really win but never lose. Then again the game would probably be alot more fun without SOLs  

Also every ship that runs marines would get the "aura". Why wouldn't the crew of ships exchange small arms fire in cqc situations... especially if there are trained soldiers on board?? 

Seems like a given to me, especially since admin said they already have it in game but disabled. Just balance would have to be found with it.

 

[OneEyedSnake]

If you have marines on your ship then they should be shooting at the enemy. I think its that simple, as thats part of what they did in real life. 

[Slim McSauce]

1 hour ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Are big ships not strong enough already? No reason to buff them more imo.

It's not really a buff. It's a feature that happens to affects big ships more.. Next thing you'll be saying is every ship needs 100 crew because "balance" XD

Edited March 22, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson

[Corona Lisa]

40 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

It's not really a buff. It's a feature that happens to affects big ships more.

xd

1 hour ago, Landsman said:

I enjoy sailing smaller ships more than bigger but unrated ships sitting below the guns or stern of a SOL to avoid its guns was fine from a gameplay perspective when not every hello kittying 4pd gun could penetrate SOL armor.

Slow down and board him. And if you are in a group of 2 small ships have a super hard time. I mainly talk about 5th rates, I have no experience with 6ths vs lineships tho.

Staying very close to a lineship is often times the only chance to survive in a brawl (you still take a lot of damage most of the time). Dont know why you would punish it, its hard to not lose your bow while doing it and you cant maneuver in many directions from there.

Also being behind a lineship to do rakes should not be punished by constantly losing crew while doing it. It just negates everything a 5th rate offers.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Jon Snow lets go

[Lovec1990]

9 hours ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

xd

Slow down and board him. And if you are in a group of 2 small ships have a super hard time. I mainly talk about 5th rates, I have no experience with 6ths vs lineships tho.

Staying very close to a lineship is often times the only chance to survive in a brawl (you still take a lot of damage most of the time). Dont know why you would punish it, its hard to not lose your bow while doing it and you cant maneuver in many directions from there.

Also being behind a lineship to do rakes should not be punished by constantly losing crew while doing it. It just negates everything a 5th rate offers.

In my opinion frigates and smaller ships should never be able to camp lineships very close without being punished 

In real life when ships would be close there will be musket fire from both sides so constantly losing crew when you are close its realistic.

This game is balance of realism and arcade,but making small ships capable of seriously threaten 1st rate is stupid becouse in real life   most frigate captains were not suicidal to engage a lineship.

So frigates and smaller ships should play supportive role in engagements.

Im fully supporting small arms fire so small ships would not camp your sides and stern plus its realstic.

 

 

 

[Jim Beamreach]

20 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

In my opinion frigates and smaller ships should never be able to camp lineships very close without being punished 

In real life when ships would be close there will be musket fire from both sides so constantly losing crew when you are close its realistic.

This game is balance of realism and arcade,but making small ships capable of seriously threaten 1st rate is stupid becouse in real life   most frigate captains were not suicidal to engage a lineship.

So frigates and smaller ships should play supportive role in engagements.

Im fully supporting small arms fire so small ships would not camp your sides and stern plus its realstic.

 

 

 

Fine, but if u are a Pirat an play only Ships up to 5th rates. What will you attack?

Traders? Hard to find at first, second you get blamed for doing this.

And if it gets impossible to fight agains a bigger ship you can only run. What means less OW-PvP for guys like me.

So what shoud i do playing PvE on PvP server or change to the PvE server and have no PvP?

 

[Barbancourt]

7 minutes ago, Jim Broadreach said:

Fine, but if u are a Pirat an play only Ships up to 5th rates. What will you attack?

 

Mmmm, 5th and 6th Rates?

 

[Lovec1990]

19 minutes ago, Jim Broadreach said:

Fine, but if u are a Pirat an play only Ships up to 5th rates. What will you attack?

Traders? Hard to find at first, second you get blamed for doing this.

And if it gets impossible to fight agains a bigger ship you can only run. What means less OW-PvP for guys like me.

So what shoud i do playing PvE on PvP server or change to the PvE server and have no PvP?

 

4th 5th 6th 7th rates besides they are most comon ships you will ecounter in OW PvP. Only lineships you will probably encounter is 3rd rate and ocasionaly 2nd rates.

I attack AI traders and do not care about what others are saying. Yesterday i attacket traders brig with my L ocean

[Jim Beamreach]

What i was trying to say, is it coud be a point where only size matter. If you sail a 6th rate and you can not attack a 4th rate cause of more crew more Marines on the 4th rate that will do more damage to your crew. Realistic yeah but fun not anymore. 

Than we can make it like only 6th vs 6th, 5th vs 5th and all other ships are unable to attack. Or do you like the point of being invunerable on your big ship. Cause of the fear you coud lose it. 

Edit: Look at WoT you coud pick a light Tank and run around a Maus or t95 what can you not much if you hit it will be hard for the light Tank but the light tank can dance around you amd give you stiches take down your traks and with skill and time you will be dead.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Jim Broadreach

[Cmdr RideZ]

Player driven economy.

I think that this also contains traders who buy and sell goods from other players.  This can be done in shops or from player to player.

Lets say a product price is 250k and our trader know that he could get a better price from it in some other port.

250k + 25k tax = 275k

Now he has to think what would be the minimum price for the product to sell it forward.  He also has to pay 10% tax again.

~306k he will be at +-0 income rate.

This means that the original buy price has been increased by +1/5    + As he is a trader he probably wants his cut.  Also price cannot be too high or else he wont be able to resell the product.

Another example with similar figures.  You find a ship, price 2.5m.  You know that in some other port you can get 3m from it.  That 500k is not just enough to make this trade.  Maybe if you are able to sell it with 3.5m, but that is already rather high price that it is probably better to avoid this deal.

Taxes are probably too high to support trade between players, player driven trade.  Especially when we speak from actually useful products.

Smaller tax rate would also help small nations as it would increase amount of products in their capital.

edit..

Simply put..  Product resell price has to be 25% higher than the price you bought it.

This is way too high if we want a working economy where players buy and sell.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Cmdr RideZ

[Sir Texas Sir]

19 hours ago, Landsman said:

Also every ship that runs marines would get the "aura". Why wouldn't the crew of ships exchange small arms fire in cqc situations... especially if there are trained soldiers on board?? 

Seems like a given to me, especially since admin said they already have it in game but disabled. Just balance would have to be found with it.

 

This could be yet another way to find out if some one is board fit other than seeing them reload very slowly and well them having crew stacked....which I think is funny cause of the moral hit I beat a crew stack wasa with my Aggy that only had barricads.    He started with a nice moral hit that allowed me to get the upper hand even though 100 more crew and marines.  Crew builds aren't always good if you don't knwo what your doing in boarding too lol

18 hours ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

xd

Slow down and board him. And if you are in a group of 2 small ships have a super hard time. I mainly talk about 5th rates, I have no experience with 6ths vs lineships tho.

Staying very close to a lineship is often times the only chance to survive in a brawl (you still take a lot of damage most of the time). Dont know why you would punish it, its hard to not lose your bow while doing it and you cant maneuver in many directions from there.

Also being behind a lineship to do rakes should not be punished by constantly losing crew while doing it. It just negates everything a 5th rate offers.

It's a trade off, you can go very close and protect your ship from broad sides or you can keep your distance and not loose crew.  It's how balance systems work where there are pro and cons for things.  Not to mention if it has a very limited rang say 50-100m It's not really that close when your in most battles unless your stuck to the stern like glue.