Patch 15: Tutorial testing and many other things

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Jean Ribault said:

Parting from the norm a little, but I prefer to give things away or just sell them at large discounts.  Ships too, crafted.  Unfortunately I know that is negative to the crafting market, but that's one of my joys in the game.  I don't do it for personal profit of my character.

Trust me, its not as unusual as you think. Most SBers I know will craft for free as long as someone brings them most of the materials. Might as well.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson

[Capn Rocko]

@admin is there any reason that shipbuilding RNG was decided instead of returning crafting regions?

[victor]

43 minutes ago, Fargo said:

Whats your profit/LH, thats the important part.

Imagine i would compete with you throwing ships on the market using hundreds of labour contracts. Do you think you would be able to make reasonable profit with ships? Exactly this is happening, just that youre competing with all this organised crafting by request thing. Much more supply than demand. Selfsupply in the first place. Ships are not more than gold + labour. Gold worthless + labour worthless = ships worthless.

I sell only ships with custom fit: appropriate woods - correct fittings - (and - when I trade directly - cannons as well).

My usual clients do not have time/will to gather certain goods/rare materials 

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Wraith said:

And now you'll have to craft 10+ ships that no one wants to get that "custom fit," perfect 5-5 ship. Huzzah.

This. 1 should be a builder perm slot that can't be destroyed, the other should be a regional bonus.

[Landsman]

18 hours ago, admin said:

M i n o r changes to crafting and NPC ships.

Gotta say this is kinda garabage... like most RNG mechanics in game... if I ever got a 5/5 ship with perfect trim I wouldn't use it for anything but bashing noobs to show my appreciation for this crafting mechanic... people will run and hide and play like cowards even more, because nobody wants to lose that dream ship that has been touched by RNGesus' dick...

 

 

Crafting Regionspecific trims were like 9000 times better as they at least gave meaning to RvR and promoted deals and trades with other nations... just saying.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Landsman

[Percival Merewether]

Regional Bonuses are a pain the the butt for smaller nations - I'd rather have the crafter choose all bonuses and let the special trims be a book that the crafter need to learn in order to make the desired refit + special materials from certain regions (Like upgrades today).

[Doug Maoz]

5 hours ago, admin said:

We prefer players to surprise themselves and find out it in game by playing because its exciting to learn new things yourself.
sorry but it was like this for 2 years or more. we are huge dark souls fans and dark souls series does not explain half of the things happening in game.

I am also a big Dark Souls fan (over 5000 hours between all the games)!

It is true that Dark Souls likes to have players discover things on their own, which is great in a story- and exploration-driven game. However Naval Action is neither of those; it is a combat and PVP-driven game.

In Dark Souls PVP, one of the nice things (to my mind) is that every weapon has the same stats if it was crafted the same way. There are is next to no randomness in the PVP aspect, as each +6 Dark Carthus Curved Sword has the same base damage and scaling as every other. Damage is affected by character stats of course, but that is analogous to our upgrade and perk choices in Naval Action to my thinking.

What I mean by all this is that introducing random crafting benefits does not really fit into the Dark Souls paradigm, and I'm not sure why it has made a return in Naval Action. Ships (our "weapons") should be fairly standard based on what wood they are constructed of, and should not have random bonuses that are impossible to predict.

I am happy to test it out, but I don't really see a gameplay benefit here.

[Landsman]

1 minute ago, Doug Maoz said:

I'm not sure why it has made a return in Naval Action

Because there was too little BS in game and people started to enjoy the game.... sorry but more PvE RNG garbage that has direct and significant effect on PvP has me tilted AF...

[DeRuyter]

4 hours ago, Rouleur said:

Good fixes

Are light carriages supposed to have no impact on speed?

AFAIK light carriages reduce the number of gun crew required. Maybe now there is a weight reduction affecting the ship but would it be enough to impact speed idk.

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

RNG crafting is bogus. Can't believe it made a comeback.

I'd be OK with paying extra in resources, marks, labor hours or gold to get the additional bonus (or hell, all of the above), but I get to pick what bonus I get, and the bonus is guaranteed to be there.

RNG is a terrible mechanic. It is, literally, an old and outdated approach that creates frustration. We are all "in it to win it", we want to build/own the best possible ship, or at least the ship that's built exactly as we want it. Please don't give me "the bonus isn't required/vital" excuse. It's just another way to create haves and have-nots, based on nothing but luck.

Consider Elite Dangerous' Engineers. You wouldn't find a designer more set in his ways and with more archaic worldview than David Braben. When Engineers were implemented, it was a system based on pure luck and insane grind: you first had to "gamble" for materials to craft bonuses for your ships, and then you had to "gamble" again when these bonuses were crafted. You could roll a million times, and come up with a cruddy upgrade barely worth the time spent gathering mats for. Or you could roll once and end up with a "god roll" that gives out bonuses out of this world. Frontier Developments stated repeatedly that this was exactly what they wanted, and this is how it would be forever and ever. But guess what - the system has been a source of such frustration to the players that they finally relented, and the current beta includes a system that produces guaranteed results.

I know this is all pre-release and Game Labs can and should test out various ideas, but the RNG crafting has already been tried and it is a bad idea. We don't need additional bonuses either. Ships are perfect the way they are (yeah, I'd love five permanent module slots and ten skill slots, and it would be AMAZING, but I can certainly live without it and enjoy the game as is).

[Rabman]

It will become 5/5 1st rates plus a "bonus" trim as the entry requirements to the main fleet ship for PB's. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 hours ago, Pada said:

Charged is total BS from a historical stand point. Don't know how realistic it is, probably no one was stupid enough to try it out.

It really should be called a full charge to be honest or put in the description what it does.

5 hours ago, admin said:

With the improvement of powder navies mostly used half charge or 1/3 charge.  But they could use full charge and did use it from time to time to give more power to a shot (increasing the penetration and distance of the first graze)

Some sources say that the difference in powder quality and size of the charge was indicated by color ribbon on the cartridge (red and blue)

yep pretty much what I was going to say.  Normally they wouldn't use a full charge if they where up close and it was a smaller ship to reserve on the powder.  Honestly Charged Shot should be called Full Charge to be more correct.  Might be something to think about.  Since it's not truely a double charge or something or list that in the description of what it does.  Speaking of which maybe we should list what they actually do in the perks description.  This is the only info I ever found what each perk does.

Double shot

Increase damage by 25%/Reduced penetration by 15%

 

Double charge with ball 

Increase penetration by 20%/ Reduced damage by 15%

Increased speed of shot by 10% (more distance and better ballistics)

Do they even still do these stats or have that been changed since this post?

[Bristol Fashion]

Eventually I would like to see a crafting system that requires skill and not just materials. It should actually take some doing to become a "good" ship builder. This would help enjoyment as some ship builders become known for the quality of their work. 

However in the meantime I have an idea for alteration to the RNG crafting bonus. What if instead of it being completely random, clans that control ports can choose the category of buff that they want ships built in each of their ports to have and this heavily skews the odds in favor of that buff. (An additional idea would be to allow them to pay more upkeep on the port to increase the odds of ships built there getting a buff). This would encourage players to set up shipyards out of the green zones as all AI controlled ports will be a total crap shoot at which buff you get. It can also be fun since certain ports will become known for things (especially if you allow clans to pay extra to increase odds).

Looking for a speedy interceptor are you? You'd best go asking a shipwright in Nassau, rumor has it no one produces faster ships than they!

Edited February 1, 2018 by Bristol Fashion

[Liq]

14 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Double shot

Increase damage by 25%/Reduced penetration by 15%

 

Double charge with ball 

Increase penetration by 20%/ Reduced damage by 15%

Increased speed of shot by 10% (more distance and better ballistics)

Do they even still do these stats or have that been changed since this post?

• Double shot penetration penalty removed
• Double charge damage penalty removed

[GrubbyZebra]

9 hours ago, Sailor said:

OW speed is (i have heard 170 times faster than instance speed). This turns 7% into... I am not good at math. 

From personal calculations, OW speed is roughly 2x battle speed (on readout), and the map is roughly 40% scale (afaik, battle instances are full scale). Couple that with the time compression (1 day in game is ~20 min), and you end up getting a OW speed that is about 23.5x battle speed.

[Percival Merewether]

My thoughts on RNG:

This should really be addressed.

[Sir Texas Sir]

35 minutes ago, Liq said:

• Double shot penetration penalty removed
• Double charge damage penalty removed

Thanks but yah this should be listed on the perk so folks know what it does.  

Well I been meaning to make a Santi to open slots on for Texas.  So my lil crafter built me one this morning and got the Heavy Rig perk (10% to mast thickness).  I don't mind these new perks to be honest.  It makes the ships a bit random as you might have 5 ships built by the same ship yard one after another and one ship might just be slightly faster, or another be a bit more stiffer cause of the workers and quality of the work done on each ship since it normally isn't always the same work crew or even equipment/shipyard used.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Sir Texas Sir

[GrubbyZebra]

5 hours ago, Wraith said:

Clearly you don't remember how this worked in the past.  Those blue and purple ships you produced? How many did you sell?  I remember that across two level 50 crafters I leveled those ships went straight back to parts in the end because people only wanted gold, 3-5 ships, and that's what was needed to be competitive when you were running up against a 25 man fleet of gold, 3-5 port battle ships. 

I'm sorry, but this world where any RNG-based bonus on a ship is just "extra," and where people are happy with a ship that is not the perfect combination of RNG-bonuses is just a fantasy, at least among the hard core of this game.

It depends on how rare the extra slots are. If it's like the 2nd random planking slot that shows up on redeemed ships, I don't see it as being game-breaking (coveted for sure, but never common enough to meet ship demands so not game breaking).

If it's like the drop rate of Congreve sights in OW, then yea, sucks to be a shipbuilder.

[victor]

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

And now you'll have to craft 10+ ships that no one wants to get that "custom fit," perfect 5-5 ship. Huzzah.

It is not that way.

But ... hey ... I sold, sell and will sell ships as usual. It's just a matter of price

So who cares?

[Rouleur]

I was one of the very first 50 level crafters after steam release.  Very proud of the first Santi launched in game out of Little Issac Rocks!. The random number of permanent and changeable upgrade slots was bad enough, what we have now is worse again. No choice between speed or crew space then, but now all sorts of random upgrades and random extra upgrade slots. Plus we spend CMs for the privilege on 1st rates and woods we have to spend ages collecting up.

Do we know the odds for these special rolls yet - 100 wasted ship builds to get the blueprint in the past or now one worth keeping again?

Crafted one Vic and got nothing - bad luck or not, should I scrap it for parts like before?

The elite dangerous engineers analogy is good - most of us gave up because the RNG was so stupid and wasteful of time and resource. Require special build materials like we have for modules and no random extra upgrade slots.

It looks like the random bonus refits are more common but the extra slots are more rare - I hate it.

 

[King of Crowns]

21 hours ago, admin said:

Captains

Patch has been deployed. 

Tutorial!

• Main goal of the patch is to test the tutorial and provide feedback on it (including ideas for new tests and exams)
• Tutorial can be accessed by pressing esc from the options menu
• Please provide feedback in this topic
• http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/24654-combat-tutorial-feedback/

Other changes

• 4th rate Epic Events added to map.
• Minor changes to crafting and NPC ships.
• Marines skillbook rebalanced to provide increasing variety in boarding set ups
• 2 new/old upgrades added to crafteable
• Light carriages returned
• Cannot join battle timer is now universal but only affects the attacker. If you as a defender just exited the port you can join the port battle as before. You can judge if you can or cannot enter the port battle by presence of the Port battle timer. Which activates after log in at sea or after exiting any open world battle or mission.
• LGV Pirate, Lynx, Privateer now have 20 permanent preparation bonus
• Wasa is now a third rate
• Indiaman is now a 5th rate
• Bots don't switch ships after boarding UNLESS they are sinking
• Forged paper are fully prepared for steam dlc (but store not yet opened)
• Carronades now penetrate better and their penetrations don't drop so much
• 1 pood edinorog (formerly 24lb edinorog) rebalanced to more historical parameters.
• Tow to port timer is now 5 mins (if you are stuck, you are ok with the longer timer). Please keep in mind that tow to port will significantly change after interface rework, as you will be able to switch ships at sea and move hold from ship to ship, allowing us to turn tow to its final role of unstuck.

Deflationary events.

Over time with introduction of new ships some parameters have increased and sometimes maybe too much. Its time for minor reductions.

• Base speed reduced for ALL vessels by 7%
• Thickness reduced and rebalanced for higher level vessels - mostly 5th-1st rates
• Leeway slightly reduced 

Discuss

 

Hotfix 

1. Fix of combat and hostility orders entry.
2. Fix for losing ships in port if you lost a ship in the tutorial
3. Contracts for copper ingots can be placed now
4. Port battle timer ONLY affects attackers of the port. Defenders can enter the port battle right from the harbor. 

sooo while many of these things needed to happen. such has thickness debuff and what not. you do realize you just brought some stuff back that was taken out previously....... ....... again....... ........   you just told us 2 days ago that thickness wasn't the issue but gun penn was............and now you nerf all thicknes. RNG back into crafting again... all ships being capturable.... again...... .......

after 2 years of being with you guys the only thing your consistent with is being inconsistent.... I know early acesss (excuse that only works for so long, 2 years so far.) I have said it before and ill say it again..... make the game you wanna make and people will either play or not play. but please start being consistent... make a plan (I would say stick to your plan but its obvious that you don't have one)..... and stick to it. .... meanwhile back to rebuild a whole pb fleet.... 3x

[Edward_Blackhall]

Lovely. This game just got even more tedious. The bumping of the the Wasa and the Indiaman are something I can live with. But when my primary frigate is an Endymion (which, historically logged well over 14 knots at broad reach) and you keep nerfing the speed, you sacrifice the historical element of the game a lot of us have come to love and appreciate about Naval Action. I was pushing a hair over 14.1 knots with a speed build (mahogany frame with white oak plank and three speed mods: Cotton Sails, Crooked Hull refit, and Gazelle bow figure) but now it's an entire knot off from where it was known to be. The more tedious you make the game (i.e. slashing our heels with speed nerfs), the fewer the people who want to play the game. If you're going to claim historical accuracy, you ought to give us what we've paid for (a hefty £35 for me). As for RNG in shipbuilding? Why would you put that trash in the game? If I wanted to get shafted by RNG in customisation, I would have jumped on the peasants' bandwagon with that lump of excrement, Call of Duty World War 2. But, please, by all means, poison this beautiful game with RNG nonsense. I think everyone would have been content with the return of craftable copper-plating (you know, an expansive practice in the Royal Navy by the closing years of the American War for Independence), the rebalance/reclassification of the Wasa and Indiaman, and some of the other minor changes. 

References:

(I'm aware that they're not scholarly. Check the references provided in the article)

 

HMS Endymion:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Endymion_(1797)

 

Copper Plating:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_sheathing

[FRAN]

Refit: Longleaf Pine Yards

Bug: i can not be sold (place contract) in the store. does not appear in the list

[admin]

6 minutes ago, Edward_Blackhall said:

Lovely. This game just got even more tedious. The bumping of the the Wasa and the Indiaman are something I can live with. But when my primary frigate is an Endymion (which, historically logged well over 14 knots at broad reach) and you keep nerfing the speed, you sacrifice the historical element of the game a lot of us have come to love and appreciate about Naval Action. I was pushing a hair over 14.1 knots with a speed build (mahogany frame with white oak plank)

heavy woods

Endymion class can be built and fitted differently. There are builds that are allowing reaching hull speed. Mahogany and white oak are reducing your speed (not giving you bonuses), but you can get 14 knots if you change things a bit. 

ps. some sources say 14 knots was exaggerated.

[admin]

7 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

you just told us 2 days ago that thickness wasn't the issue but gun penn was.

there is no difference between raising penetration or lowering thickness from the math perspective