Patch 10.4 Conquest changes, Battle Groups, Wapen von Hamburg (III)

[Cmdr RideZ]

1 minute ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Well.....   much depends on what your situation/goals as a player are.

I wish there were other options than Surprise for a goal that is so common.

What if we nerf Surprise or buff others so that you actually have to decide from multiple options?

Honestly, Surprise is OP and that is the reason why so many sail it.  Absolutely nothing to do with anything else.

[Liq]

1 minute ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Honestly, Surprise is OP and that is the reason why so many sail it.  Absolutely nothing to do with anything else.

Not really. It still has paper masts that snap when you only look at them. Topmast section takes about 1-2 broadsides from a frigate to take them down. Oh and also 9 and 6 pounders. Not quite what I'd describe as OP

[Vernon Merrill]

I don't know man, you gotta get awful close for those 9-lb'ers to do any damage. One mistake and I'm eating a broadside that will melt 1/3 of my hp.  

Also, my masts are pretty weak.  

I don't disagree completely, but there are definitely weaknesses as well. 

 

EDIT:Shit Liquicity beat me to it 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Vernon Merrill

[Cmdr RideZ]

5 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

Not really. It still has paper masts that snap when you only look at them. Topmast section takes about 1-2 broadsides from a frigate to take them down. Oh and also 9 and 6 pounders. Not quite what I'd describe as OP

Liquicity..  Stop sailing a Surprise already.

So us your ganks in a Belle Poule, Frigate, Essex, etc, ...  You have skills to do it in other ships as well, right?

Say for your comrades that lets stop sailing a Surprise.  Say them that other ships are as good as Surprise.

OR

Can you do it just and only because you sail a Surprise?

Edited July 27, 2017 by Cmdr RideZ

[Liq]

2 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Liquicity..  Stop sailing a Surprise already.

So us your ganks in a Belle Poule, Frigate, Essex, etc, ...  You have skills to do it in other ships as well, right?

Say for your comrades that lets stop sailing a Surprise.  Say them that other ships are as good as Surprise.

OR

Can you do it just and only because you sail a Surprise?

I sail a surprise mostly because 1) I dont have a cecilia anymore  and 2) because I play solo most of the times, the 4 stern chasers give me a good chance of getting away from the zerg forces. If it only had two, I might consider sailing a belle poule or something similar. Surprise is no match for an Essex, Pirate Frigate, Belle poule or even Frigate, if the captain knows what he's doing.

[Slamz]

2 hours ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

What are her downsides please ?

Weak guns, weak armor, weak masts.

The whole point of the Surprise, as I see it, is that you can generally pick your fights. That's why all the OW PvP people like them. The downside is that there are fights that 5 Surprises would have to avoid that 5 Frigates could win. (Just off the cuff, if 5 of you met 3 Bellonas, I'm thinking 3 Bellonas would eat up 5 Surprises. But 5 Frigates, with the larger guns helping break the tank of the Bellonas, and sturdier hulls and masts, would probably win.)

[Cmdr RideZ]

6 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

I sail a surprise mostly because 1) I dont have a cecilia anymore  and 2) because I play solo most of the times, the 4 stern chasers give me a good chance of getting away from the zerg forces. If it only had two, I might consider sailing a belle poule or something similar. Surprise is no match for an Essex, Pirate Frigate, Belle poule or even Frigate, if the captain knows what he's doing.

If the captain knows what he is doing.  You do not know what you are doing so you sail a Surprise?  Has to be better than you to sail a Frigate?

For many Cecilia was/is the only competitive option for Surprise.  Are we Surprised?

What if we just stop fooling ourselves, Surprise is OP because you have to be a better captain to sail others.

...

Oh, to proof your point that Surprise is not OP.  I am expecting that you guys start sailing something else.

Show us that it is not because Surprise is OP, show us that you can do it in any ship.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Cmdr RideZ

[Liq]

Just now, Cmdr RideZ said:

If the captain knows what he is doing.  You do not know what you are doing so you sail a Surprise?  Has to be better than you to sail a Frigate?

I was trying to say, in a duel of Surprise vs Frigate, the Frigate would win farily easily if he knew what he was doing. And if you read my post, I said I would consider taking something else than a Surprise, but the 4 stern chasers give me a good possibility to evade the zerg forces, only interested in 5v1 roflstomps.

2 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

For many Cecilia was/is the only competitive option for Surprise.  Are we Surprised?

 

A cecilia will smash a surprise all day. Way better masts, 12s and 9s compared to the surps 9s and 6s, more crew, more HP... Surprise is no match for a cecilia.

2 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

What if we just stop fooling ourselves, Surprise is OP because you have to be a better captain to sail others.

lol its not OP. Keep ingoring the facts mate. It has paper masts, weak armor, weak amarment. Any other frigate will smash it if he knows what he's doing, as said before.

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

The simple fact that it's easily replaced if lost, and can pick the fights he want to fight  (4 stern guns, sailing  profile) make it op, that's all. If you can't outrun what you can't beat, you are a target.  Let it with 2 stern guns and we can talk about balance.

[Hodo]

5 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

LOL

In every game, when something is better than the rest -> Masses use it.

Do not cheat yourself.  Surprise is the easiest ship to sail, there is absolutely nothing related to skill here.

I completely agree.  The Surprise is the most OP 5th rate in the game.  

It is faster than most other ships at all points of sail.  It turns better than 90% of the other 5th rates and above.  It is mildly tough, and has a good broadside punch.  Not to mention it has bow chasers and the most stern chasers outside of a Ship of the Line.

When compared to other 5th rates in its "class" it far out classes them. 

The poor Renomee is the only 5th rate in its class that comes close, and even that cant hang with the surprise if it turns anywhere near the wind.  

[Hullabaloo]

Whether the Surp is OP or not is maybe not what's important? The fact is, is that everyone is sailing them, whatever the reason. Admittedly this is over simplifying, as different ships are used for different purposes and at different costs, but as a general rule: if too many people are using it: nerf it, if it is being underused: buff it. That's the way to get the widest range of ships out in the openworld.

[Cmdr RideZ]

8 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

lol its not OP. Keep ingoring the facts mate. It has paper masts, weak armor, weak amarment. Any other frigate will smash it if he knows what he's doing, as said before.

Get yourself a Frigate, Belle Poule, Essex, Trinc, etc.

Sail those, do it better than in a Surprise.  Come here after and tell us that it was actually easier in a Belle Poule.  It has +40BR and everything, right?

I know that Surprise has 4 stern chasers.  Other ships have other benefits like you say, and because of that are on the same level.  Not true.

There should be many viable hunting ships like Surprise.  Should we let devs know this or you still want to stay on "Not OP" side of the table?

[Liq]

As long as the average player mentality of "only engage if we've got 2 - 3x the numbers" doesn't change, I wont change my choice of ship. 1v2 - 1v3 is doable (done before), but anything above is just pure zerg.
If you take away two of the surps stern chasers you'll have to balance it out in other ways, buff mast thickness or idk. Because otherwise it will just be another ship taking the OW PvP Meta, e.g. Belle Poule, which has way better base stats already.

Sidenote: Why does the Trincomalee have no stern chasers? Been wondering for a while.

[Vernon Merrill]

Liquicity, I think they missed the part where you explained that its about "how you fight"...   *Le Sigh*

[Zoky]

Surp is not op, its just that most captains won't go for its downsides. For me pirate frig is much better for solo/small group action then surprise. 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Zoky

[Prater]

13 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

As long as the average player mentality of "only engage if we've got 2 - 3x the numbers" doesn't change, I wont change my choice of ship. 1v2 - 1v3 is doable (done before), but anything above is just pure zerg.
If you take away two of the surps stern chasers you'll have to balance it out in other ways, buff mast thickness or idk. Because otherwise it will just be another ship taking the OW PvP Meta, e.g. Belle Poule, which has way better base stats already.

Sidenote: Why does the Trincomalee have no stern chasers? Been wondering for a while.

Taking 1v3 is probably significantly easier in a Belle Poule, but living to tell the tale is another story.  That is just inviting ganks.  The only reason why the Surprise is the preferred ship is because of the gank meta.

[Hethwill]

5 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Define gank meta. I always love how players overuse word gank. For some it means PvP overall, for others jumping mission, for someone else it means 1v1, basically combats and battles of different type are defined by players as gank.

 

[Prater]

21 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Define gank meta. I always love how players overuse word gank. For some it means PvP overall, for others jumping mission, for someone else it means 1v1, basically combats and battles of different type are defined by players as gank.

Gank meta means people will run from 2v1s to turn it into a 10v1 (2v1 odds weren't good enough???).  Or they will sit in the green zone and wait until their numbers are 5:1 in their favor before they go out and engage.  Just ask Luquicity.  What it is not is above where Cmdr RideZ calls Luquicity's 1v2s and 1v3s ganks (where Luquicity is the lone ship vs 2 or 3).  How can a single ship engaging equal or greater ships in equal or greater numbers be a gank, so that is an example of loose terminology?  But what I am referring to is the fact that most people won't engage unless they significantly outnumber their enemy.  Or they engage their enemy and stay at range, calling for significant reinforcements, then leave battle and have the whole group jump on the enemy.

So, to tie in with my previous post, a surprise has a better chance of getting away from a gank, where a Belle Poule it is extremely difficult.  So why risk the Belle Poule? 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Prater

[Hodo]

2 hours ago, Peter Goldman said:

Define gank meta. I always love how players overuse word gank. For some it means PvP overall, for others jumping mission, for someone else it means 1v1, basically combats and battles of different type are defined by players as gank.

People love to use the current hot or catch phrase.  From Fake News, to COFEVFE.   So the current internet catch phrase is "meta" and gank.  When it used to be "zerg" or "horde" .    Just like every counter argument by a first year debate college student was "strawman argument".  

32 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Some ships are not meant for solo playing sadly. Belle Poule just like Essex and Trincomalee are support ships.

When the Essex was famous for hunting whaling ships in the Pacific and Atlantic during the war of 1812.   And the Trincomalee or Leda class was the most produced frigate in the entire history of the Royal Navy.

[Sven Silberbart]

On 17.7.2017 at 11:35 AM, admin said:

• Invisibility now has a speed buff and allows you to ignore wind

 

There is no safe spot in our homewaters atm. That is not a problem for the experienced pvp and pb players. This is a big problem for weaker and new players. They are heavly ganked atm all around the capitol. Mission jumping is a sport. As result, the players quit. The last Patch has opened the doors for all kind of ganking groups. It closes the doors for a nation to guard its homewaters. This needs to be addressed.

Maybe Revenge Fleets was not so bad as some players told. Or another solution needs to be implemented. But the current state of the game don't give the hard hitted players a save area to regenerate and earn new money and mats to rebuild his ships he has lost. If you are at the ground you cant stand up alone without help while ganking groups are making their business.

I have no problem with ganking in general. It is and should be part of a war. But the players need a way to regenerate. Maybe close the missions immediately to stop mision ganking or something.

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Sven Silberbart

[Maloco]

On 17/7/2017 at 11:35 AM, admin said:

NPCs no longer sail rattlesnakes, Niagaras and Ingermanlands

I play on the server of pve ... now I can not enjoy facing me in battle against these ships, because only the players can carry them and in the server pve only can attack the npc.

So I lose game content by choosing the pve system.

Why, both me and any player of the server pve, we have to suffer the loss of variety of ships that can enjoy the players of other servers?

And there are more ships that we can never face in battle, such as the LOcean, the bucentaure and all those ships that you can only build  and sail with them ... I do not think anything fair and I protest for it.

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Maloco

[HarryButpain]

1.9mb update!

[Ink]

On 17.07.2017 at 0:35 PM, admin said:

Hotfix 4 (07/28/2017)

• Some survival upgrades rebalanced (significant boosts to repair time reduced)
• Leaks rebalanced (it will be possible to sink ships with penetrating holes under waterline again)
• Ship capture from NPC returns to PVP servers. All ships from rank 7 to rank 5 are captureable from NPCs.

 

[Guest]

...Even more backtracking. Missions. SOL accessibility. And now ship capture.

...What's next? Duras coming back? Free town teleports? Ship towing/teleporting?

[North]

5 minutes ago, Ink said:

 

Nice Update:) love being able to sink ships with leaks, more realistic.